Is Jesus the Logos?

The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

  • This topic has 25,959 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by Keith.
Viewing 20 posts - 741 through 760 (of 25,961 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #65177
    IM4Truth
    Participant

    Kejonn Yes it did. Thank you. Like I said before it is just recently that I began to study this, so I am not 100% convinced.
    But with the trinity I am 200% convinced. Have to make a copy and study it.
    Peace and Love Mrs.

    #65178
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 01 2007,06:54)
    The more and more I read John 1, the less I see a pre-existant being. Are we truly to take the OT passages that speak of the “word of YHWH” and see some being flitting around, carrying out God's actions? John 1 is a simple summarization of the creation narrative: God spoke and things came to be. God spoke and a Savior was born; it was God's plan to save mankind through His only begotten Son.

    What confuses the issue with John 1 is the translation of the Greek word “autos” as “him”. This word can mean “he, she, or it”, “him, her, or it”. Yet the translators used “him” with no real reason to do so other than popular opinion. Can a “logos” — a “word” — truly be a “him”? Can somone show me where a “logos” was a “him” outside of John 1?


    Kejonn…….> I see it that way also the word is an atribute God Himself. And does not refer to Jesus at all or infer that Jesus preexisted either, John 1.1 is simply saying that in the Begining was the word (intellegent uterance) and it was with God and was God.(his atribute which is part of Him) it was in the Beginning. And this intellegence is what inlightens every man that comes into the world.
    I do not believe Jesus preexisted either, but was foreordained like Peter said and then He was Manifisted (or brought into existence ) in our time, Just like Peter said. peace to you brother……gene

    #65181
    TimothyVI
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2007,16:37)

    Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 01 2007,06:54)
    The more and more I read John 1, the less I see a pre-existant being. Are we truly to take the OT passages that speak of the “word of YHWH” and see some being flitting around, carrying out God's actions? John 1 is a simple summarization of the creation narrative: God spoke and things came to be. God spoke and a Savior was born; it was God's plan to save mankind through His only begotten Son.

    What confuses the issue with John 1 is the translation of the Greek word “autos” as “him”. This word can mean “he, she, or it”, “him, her, or it”. Yet the translators used “him” with no real reason to do so other than popular opinion. Can a “logos” — a “word” — truly be a “him”? Can somone show me where a “logos” was a “him” outside of John 1?


    Kejonn…….> I see it that way also the word is an atribute God Himself. And does not refer to Jesus at all or infer that Jesus preexisted either, John 1.1 is simply saying that in the Begining was the word (intellegent uterance) and it was with God and was God.(his atribute which is part of Him) it was in the Beginning. And this intellegence is what inlightens every man that comes into the world.
    I do not believe Jesus preexisted either, but was foreordained like  Peter said and then He was Manifisted (or brought into existence ) in our time, Just like Peter said. peace to you brother……gene


    I agree.
    John 1 has been a struggle for me for some time.
    I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is not even mentioned until John 1:4.

    John 1:1 thru John 1:3 were all talking about God Himself.
    Then in John 1:4 Jesus is mentioned.
    Jhn 1:4
    In him (God) was life; and the life was the light of men.
    In God was the life that was the light of man. That life, the light of man, which He would eventually send to earth was Jesus.

    Tim

    #65307
    charity
    Participant

    Quote (TimothyVI @ Sep. 01 2007,23:17)

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 01 2007,16:37)

    Quote (kejonn @ Sep. 01 2007,06:54)
    The more and more I read John 1, the less I see a pre-existant being. Are we truly to take the OT passages that speak of the “word of YHWH” and see some being flitting around, carrying out God's actions? John 1 is a simple summarization of the creation narrative: God spoke and things came to be. God spoke and a Savior was born; it was God's plan to save mankind through His only begotten Son.

    What confuses the issue with John 1 is the translation of the Greek word “autos” as “him”. This word can mean “he, she, or it”, “him, her, or it”. Yet the translators used “him” with no real reason to do so other than popular opinion. Can a “logos” — a “word” — truly be a “him”? Can somone show me where a “logos” was a “him” outside of John 1?


    Kejonn…….> I see it that way also the word is an atribute God Himself. And does not refer to Jesus at all or infer that Jesus preexisted either, John 1.1 is simply saying that in the Begining was the word (intellegent uterance) and it was with God and was God.(his atribute which is part of Him) it was in the Beginning. And this intellegence is what inlightens every man that comes into the world.
    I do not believe Jesus preexisted either, but was foreordained like  Peter said and then He was Manifisted (or brought into existence ) in our time, Just like Peter said. peace to you brother……gene


    I agree.
    John 1 has been a struggle for me for some time.
    I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is not even mentioned until John 1:4.

    John 1:1 thru John 1:3 were all talking about God Himself.
    Then in John 1:4 Jesus is mentioned.
    Jhn 1:4
    In him (God) was life; and the life was the light of men.
    In God was the life that was the light of man. That life, the light of man, which He would eventually send to earth was Jesus.

    Tim


    Hi TimothyVI;
    thank you for sharing this;

    Its so refreshing; God is Good, wow….

    #65330
    charity
    Participant

    His soul said this about, the servant Christ that was chosen; I feel concerned with a possible snare of the way; the way th Y Names have been used, in the average person may not be fully sure who they are giving worship to?
    Due to not enough awareness OF, and a taking part in the resurrection of the dead, in which Christ was the first born of the dead. THAT many to follow, and even so by the instructions of the soul that were written before became flesh, did he confirm his coming into the world as written here, and used by Christ himself….

    Mat 12:18
    Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

    THE TALKING SOUL; a creation soul from the fathers days, that christ followed, being the first of the generation of the children, the sons of the fathers,
    Zec 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver [them].
    ¶ And I will feed the flock of slaughter, [even] you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock. Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
    Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.
    And I took my staff, [even] Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
    And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it [was] the word of the LORD.

    #65685
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,..

    The Word is Jesus our God.

    Rev 19:11  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    Rev 19:12  His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    Rev 19:13  And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    Rev 19:14  And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    Rev 19:15  And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    Rev 19:16  And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    Rev 19:17  And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

    In case you missed it

    Rev 19:17  And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto  
    the supper of the great God;

    Jesus the Lamb of God and the Word of God,  is the Great God, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Almighty God    :O

    #65694
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,14:13)
    The Word is Jesus our God


    Not true.

    Jesus is our Lord, not God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    You need to watch your life and doctrine closely because if you don't, you could damn or damage both yourself and your hearers.

    #65699
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 10 2007,18:37)

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,14:13)
    The Word is Jesus our God


    Not true.

    Jesus is our Lord, not God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    You need to watch your life and doctrine closely because if you don't, you could damn or damage both yourself and your hearers.


    t8. Not so fast with your “twist.”
    There are no commas in the original language so don't rely on them for your doctrine.

    there is but one God the Father
    there is but one God the Son
    there is but one God the Holy Spirit.

    T8. Do you believe that the Father is “Lord”?
    Likewise the Son is God.

    there is but one Lord Jesus Christ
    there is but one Lord The Holy Spirit
    there is but one Lord The Father

    t8. Consider the following:

    2Pe 3:16  as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.  :O

    #65700
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.:O

    #65713
    kejonn
    Participant

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 09 2007,22:21)

    Quote (t8 @ Sep. 10 2007,18:37)

    Quote (Cult Buster @ Sep. 10 2007,14:13)
    The Word is Jesus our God


    Not true.

    Jesus is our Lord, not God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6
    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    You need to watch your life and doctrine closely because if you don't, you could damn or damage both yourself and your hearers.


    t8. Not so fast with your “twist.”
    There are no commas in the original language so don't rely on them for your doctrine.

    there is but one God the Father
    there is but one God the Son
    there is but one God the Holy Spirit.


    And yet the verse listed only mentions one God, the Father. Where is “God the Son” and “God the Holy Spirit” in 1 Cor 8:6? Where are those phrases anywhere in scripture at all?

    Quote
    T8. Do you believe that the Father is “Lord”?
    Likewise the Son is God.


    Is the Holy Spirit Lord? If there are 3, all three must be Lord. Where do we ever see Lord attributed to the Holy Spirit?

    Quote
    there is but one Lord Jesus Christ
    there is but one Lord The Holy Spirit
    there is but one Lord The Father


    Please provide the scripture that supports “Lord the Holy Spirit”.

    But I know you cannot because these scripture passages do not exist. Not that you cae, you only come on here once a week to say the same things and ignore rebuttals.

    #66241
    Mr. Steve
    Participant

    CB;

    You are the funny one. You declare one God and then name three that are God. News flash: God is one, not three.

    Take Care

    Steven

    #79011
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,
    Prophets spoke for God and Jesus was such a prophet as Peter showed in Acts 3.22.
    But none was called the Word of God except the man Jesus who was ever a mouthpiece for God.
    Of course this could not be the case if he also was the God for whom he was the Word.

    #93170
    NickHassan
    Participant

    topical

    #93299
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 05 2007,08:45)
    Hi K,
    That is when the LOGOS was with God.
    He was with God before that too- in the beginning.
    Then the LOGOS was made flesh and dwelled among us.


    Hi Nick,
    Was Logos a person which is also called God in Jn 1:1?

    #93319
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Indeed, but not our God.
    Many are called gods in scripture.

    #93364
    gollamudi
    Participant

    So you don't believe Jn 1:1

    1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”

    You don't believe that the word was our God?

    #93368
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Does it say OUR GOD in the verse you quote?

    #93372
    gollamudi
    Participant

    Hi Nick,
    God is God where is the question making another “god” as you repeatedly quote as socalled gods?
    We have only one God whose “word” is mentioned in Jn 1:1 that is what I believe.

    #93374
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi GM,
    Is God just a Word?

    #93410
    gollamudi
    Participant

    you are going into same old arguements again, I only told that you should agree with Jn 1:1 that “the word was God” means the word is no separate person from that one God but an attribute belongs to Him.

Viewing 20 posts - 741 through 760 (of 25,961 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2024 Heaven Net

Navigation

© 1999 - 2023 - Heaven Net
or

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

or

Create Account