Is Jesus the Logos?

The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

Viewing 20 posts - 521 through 540 (of 25,961 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #53834

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:01)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,06:32)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ May 29 2007,06:21)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 28 2007,18:22)
    I encourage you to listen to some of these messages with open heart!

    http://www.eadshome.com/Jesuslessons.htm


    WJ, I visited this site and have a question:
    It says that there were many who “saw” the LORD, but who did they really see?  The site says that they didn't really see God because you cannot see God.  So they say it was Jesus……..

    Was it Jesus that Adam and Eve saw and spoke with in the garden?


    not3

    The same one who created them!

    Gen 1:
    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    26 And God said, *Let us* make man in *our image, after our likeness*:…
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Man is him and yet man is them.

    God is him and yet God is us!

    :)


    Hi W,
    Do we have to read between the lines again to find these 'truths”


    NH

    LOL.

    You read between the lines. I simply quote the scripture!

    :D

    #53835

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:00)
    Hi W,
    You say
    “Your teachings go outside of the scriptures more than theirs.”
    So you do admit these teachings go outside of scripture?
    Then why do you continue to promote what is false?
    Do you not fear our awesomely powerful God?


    LOL!

    They make inference like we all do including you NH about certain scriptures, so why are you pretending here that you dont go outside of scriptures with your inferences?

    :D

    #53836
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    I may have a puny mind but I do recognise that an image of anything is not, by definition, that which it images.

    You must find it difficult driving the car if you cannot tell which is another vehicle on the road and which is an image of a vehicle in a mirror.

    Indeed the monogenes Son who was with God has his own glory and you need to recognise and respect him as the Son of God.

    #53837
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,07:12)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:00)
    Hi W,
    You say
    “Your teachings go outside of the scriptures more than theirs.”
    So you do admit these teachings go outside of scripture?
    Then why do you continue to promote what is false?
    Do you not fear our awesomely powerful God?


    LOL!

    They make inference like we all do including you NH about certain scriptures, so why are you pretending here that you dont go outside of scriptures with your inferences?

    :D


    Hi W,
    Why do you promote those who rely on inference and put them alongside revealed truth as being of equivalent value?

    #53838

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:13)
    Hi W,
    I may have a puny mind but I do recognise that an image of anything is not, by definition, that which it images.

    You must find it difficult driving the car if you cannot tell which is another vehicle on the road and which is an image of a vehicle in a mirror.

    Indeed the monogenes Son who was with God has his own glory and you need to recognise and respect him as the Son of God.


    NH

    Yes I see you are showing that you do see Christ as a dead image like a mirror!

    Do you think that is what the exact representation of his substance means?

    That you are looking in a dead mirror. No NH.

    Jesus has substance. An image in a mirror does not!

    :O

    #53839

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:15)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,07:12)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:00)
    Hi W,
    You say
    “Your teachings go outside of the scriptures more than theirs.”
    So you do admit these teachings go outside of scripture?
    Then why do you continue to promote what is false?
    Do you not fear our awesomely powerful God?


    LOL!

    They make inference like we all do including you NH about certain scriptures, so why are you pretending here that you dont go outside of scriptures with your inferences?

    :D


    Hi W,
    Why do you promote those who rely on inference and put them alongside revealed truth as being of equivalent value?


    NH

    Jesus was born again at the Jordan right?

    Who promotes inferences and puts trust in them?

    At least Trinitarians have scriptures for what we believe.

    Where is the scripture for the above and also why did you blot out John 12:41 out of your Bible?

    ???

    #53840
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    You should rather abide in scripture and not listen to strangers who have no knowledge of the way of truth and instead worship greek logic and inference. Neither should you tolerate additions to the scripture as that is how we show our love for these precious words and for the God Who wrote them through men.

    #53842

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:35)
    Hi W,
    You should rather abide in scripture and not listen to strangers who have no knowledge of the way of truth and instead worship greek logic and inference. Neither should you tolerate additions to the scripture as that is how we show our love for these precious words and for the God Who wrote them through men.


    NH

    Same back to you!

    So tell me how you came to the conclusion that John 12:41 is not found in none of the manuscripts?

    So it like John 1:1 is not part of your doctrine right?

    ???

    #53843
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,06:42)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ May 29 2007,06:34)
    WJ, so they saw Jesus?


    not3

    I dont know of a scripture that says they “Saw” God!

    I know it says they talked to God! They Heard him walking!

    :)


    Since Jesus is the image of the invisible God [Colossians 1:15], then if anyone at anytime has seen God, then we should expect that they saw the image of the invisible God, the Word, Jesus.
    *********************************
    Above is a quote straight from the website that you offered.

    I'll ask my question again: “If” Adam and Eve were able to see God in the garden, would it be Jesus that they saw and talked with and not God, himself? Thanks.

    #53844

    Quote (Not3in1 @ May 29 2007,06:33)
    Nick, thanks for pointing out that other versions can either justify our claims or they can shut them down.  We see what we want to see, sometimes.  We see what we pray is there…..  I am guilty of this as well.  We all have various glasses that we put on from time to time.  Each version, it seems, has it's own unique set of translators on board.  How else could some scriptures be seen as Jesus is God and others say no such thing?


    not3

    What scriptures that says Jesus is God and others say no such thing?

    Could you give me an example?

    ???

    #53845

    Quote (Not3in1 @ May 29 2007,07:52)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,06:42)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ May 29 2007,06:34)
    WJ, so they saw Jesus?


    not3

    I dont know of a scripture that says they “Saw” God!

    I know it says they talked to God! They Heard him walking!

    :)


    Since Jesus is the image of the invisible God [Colossians 1:15], then if anyone at anytime has seen God, then we should expect that they saw the image of the invisible God, the Word, Jesus.
    *********************************
    Above is a quote straight from the website that you offered.

    I'll ask my question again:  “If” Adam and Eve were able to see God in the garden, would it be Jesus that they saw and talked with and not God, himself?  Thanks.


    not3

    “If” they saw God it would be the Word/Yeshua!

    God manifest himself by the Word who was with God and was God!

    Gen 1:26
    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness Jn 1:1-3, 14

    Since Jesus is the image of the invisible God [Colossians 1:15], then if anyone at anytime has seen God, then we should expect that they saw the image of the invisible God, the Word, Jesus.

    Good quote. And true. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen God!

    Who else can say that?

    ???

    #53847
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,07:47)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:35)
    Hi W,
    You should rather abide in scripture and not listen to strangers who have no knowledge of the way of truth and instead worship greek logic and inference. Neither should you tolerate additions to the scripture as that is how we show our love for these precious words and for the God Who wrote them through men.


    NH

    Same back to you!

    So tell me how you came to the conclusion that John 12:41 is not found in none of the manuscripts?

    So it like John 1:1 is not part of your doctrine right?

    ???


    Hi W,
    Jn 12.41 is in all the manuscripts.
    But the name of JESUS is not found written there in any of them.
    Can you find it for us?

    #53848
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    You say

    “”If” they saw God it would be the Word/Yeshua!”

    Is this logic equal to scriptural revelation?

    #53849
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    You say
    ” Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen God!”
    Not quite.
    It says the FATHER
    But it is good that you acknowledge that the Father is our God.

    #53850

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,08:27)
    Hi W,
    You say
    ” Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen God!”
    Not quite.
    It says the FATHER
    But it is good that you acknowledge that the Father is our God.


    NH

    Ah so the Father is not God?

    What is the difference?

    If you have seen me you have seen the Father?

    or

    If you have seen me you have seen God?

    Is there a difference NH?

    ???

    #53852
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi W,
    You seem to often misread things seeing images as realities perhaps?
    God is the Father.

    #53853

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,08:24)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,07:47)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:35)
    Hi W,
    You should rather abide in scripture and not listen to strangers who have no knowledge of the way of truth and instead worship greek logic and inference. Neither should you tolerate additions to the scripture as that is how we show our love for these precious words and for the God Who wrote them through men.


    NH

    Same back to you!

    So tell me how you came to the conclusion that John 12:41 is not found in none of the manuscripts?

    So it like John 1:1 is not part of your doctrine right?

    ???


    Hi W,
    Jn 12.41 is in all the manuscripts.
    But the name of JESUS is not found written there in any of them.
    Can you find it for us?


    MH

    Again you do err, for clearly John the Apostle in the context is speaking of Yeshua and ascribing the fulfillment of Isaiahs prophesy to him.

    You have the blinders on again NH.

    :O

    #53854

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,08:25)
    Hi W,
    You say

    “”If” they saw God it would be the Word/Yeshua!”

    Is this logic equal to scriptural revelation?


    NH

    There you go again. Deny the very words of God before you.

    You should cry out to God and ask him to open your eyes to the truth.

    Yeshua pre-existed his birth and was seen many times in the Hebrew scriptures. Moses wrote about him.

    :O

    #53855

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,09:10)
    Hi W,
    You seem to often misread things seeing images as realities perhaps?
    God is the Father.


    Ah so now you say Christ who is the exact representation of his substance is not a reality?

    ???

    #53856
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,09:11)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,08:24)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2007,07:47)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2007,07:35)
    Hi W,
    You should rather abide in scripture and not listen to strangers who have no knowledge of the way of truth and instead worship greek logic and inference. Neither should you tolerate additions to the scripture as that is how we show our love for these precious words and for the God Who wrote them through men.


    NH

    Same back to you!

    So tell me how you came to the conclusion that John 12:41 is not found in none of the manuscripts?

    So it like John 1:1 is not part of your doctrine right?

    ???


    Hi W,
    Jn 12.41 is in all the manuscripts.
    But the name of JESUS is not found written there in any of them.
    Can you find it for us?


    MH

    Again you do err, for clearly John the Apostle in the context is speaking of Yeshua and ascribing the fulfillment of Isaiahs prophesy to him.

    You have the blinders on again NH.

    :O


    Hi W,
    It may be obvious to those wearing trinity glasses but nonetheless it is not written as such and we should not use logic and presume truth.

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