Is Jesus the Logos?

The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

Viewing 8 posts - 25,941 through 25,948 (of 25,948 total)
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  • #946962
    Keith
    Participant

    Prov 2:21-22 assures some are not leaving the earth. Matt 24:22= Unless those days( trib and Gods day of anger) were cut short no flesh would be saved. The great crowd will not leave the earth, they will reside upon it forever-Psalm 37:11,29–Matt 5:5)

    #946963
    Berean
    Participant

    @Keith

    The inheritance of the (new) earth for the elect will be after the millennium, not before. At the return of Christ, there will be the millennium which will be a period of judgment of the wicked by Christ and certain saints, and this will take place in Heaven.
    see more here
    👇
    http://www.cyberspaceministry.org/Lessons/Truth/Lesson25/eng-s25.html

    #946964
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    DT, you said…….You claim to be “filled” with the “spirit”, do you still sin? If so, how; doesn’t the spirit lead you like it lead the Jesus?

    DT, show me where I ever said I was “filled” , with Holy Spirit. I said I have the Holy Spirit, (the spirit of truth) Abiding in me, that is how I know you are not of the truth , in rejecting Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, and the whole New Testament,

    I am not perfect yet, but the spirit of God that abides in me, is working for that goal, just as it says,  ” for he (God) works in us, both to Will,  (cause us to desire) and do of his (God’s) good pleasure’.

    Jesus was right,  if we “lust” after a woman,  we are commuting adulatory with her in our hearts, so you are guilty of committing the act , (in your heart)> if you do it in your heart you will do it .  …..“so a man thinks, so he is”.   That is also written.  God judges not only our actions but also our hearts, as in the case of Cain, God know before Cain committed the act , what Cain would do. Think about that  “O” WISE ONE.

    Peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene

     

    #946965
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Proclaimer,

    Proclaimer wrote:

    I finally realize the difference between christianity and what is written in the Tanakh concerning sin; christianity believes sin is a condition or an attribute/characteristic of humanity, consider themselves dirty rags, and thus need a “redeemer” to be forgiven; the Tanakh teaches sin is an action and you have a choice, obey G-d or not.

    Sin is wrongdoing.

    Sin is disobedience to G-d’s commands

    The LAW is the knowledge of wrongdoing.

    The law was 613 commands given to all of Israel by G-d and are how the people where to worship G-d and how they where to treat and respect their fellow man. To say it was to point out or give “knowledge” of wrongdoing is a Pauline lie, because it was more of a “code”, how one was to live. You really should look them up, because they aren’t the “burden” Paul tells you they are; they aren’t what you have been told they are. In fact, Moses before he died said they where easy to follow. Even John in his epistle said the same.

    But what about those WITHOUT the law.

    None are without G-d’s “law.” Explain how Noah was righteous before G-d, what did he do? Explain Abraham, the father of Israel, who had no “written law” to follow, was a friend of God? Job was a righteous man before G-d. Enoch walked faithfully with G-d and never saw death. There was something they followed, what was it? Hint…it wasn’t the Mosaic Law.

    The law is written is our HEARTS.

    Read the comment before; this is how the aforementioned people where able to follow after G-d. It’s always been written on our hearts; everyone knows the difference between good and evil (thanks to Adam and Eve) and it’s the decision one makes when presented a choice.

    The Old Testament took us to the knowledge that we are sinners.

    Another Pauline lie, the Tanakh didn’t bring one to the “knowledge we are sinners.” The Tanakh is broken into three parts: Torah, Prophets, and Writings; the Torah is the “law” you hate and are burdened by, but do recommend reading it, the prophets speak mostly of judgment and redemption of Israel, and the writings primarily give a historical account of the nation of Israel but also include “poetry” and “wisdom.”

    The New Testament is about grace, thus provides the solution to the problem.

    Beg to differ with this statement, G-d extended A LOT of “grace” AND “mercy” to the Israelite’s throughout the Tanakh…may want to give it a read again.

    @DesireTruth, what you are proposing is that God should have left humanity in sin with no way out.

    Except HE didn’t; HE told mankind they have control over sin (Gen 4:7), do you also reject G-d’s words? HE also said to repent, turn from your sin, and HE’LL remember it no more…sounds like a plan to me or do you prefer the words of Paul instead?

    God showed us that he is the Judge.

    Agree, G-d gives perfect justice to all.

    Now he shows us that he is the Father of grace.

    HE has always been, from creation, the Father of grace and mercy and justice and most importantly, LOVE.

    To appreciate something truly, it needs to be hard earned.

    Not sure what you mean here and how this would applied to G-d.

    Otherwise, your attitude is one of indifference. Easy come easy go.

    There is nothing “indifferent” in my attitude nor in what I’m posting, I’m rather passionate about what I’m writing, which has been met with “indifference” and anger. How dare I verify what is written and not blindly accept what I’m told! Shame on me…

    #946966
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Gene,

    DT, show me where I ever said I was “filled” , with Holy Spirit. I said I have the Holy Spirit, (the spirit of truth) Abiding in me, that is how I know you are not of the truth , in rejecting Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, and the whole New Testament,

    Of everything I have written in the last several months, what have you verified or proven wrong?

    Of course I reject the Jesus as the true Messiah, he fulfilled being Jewish; what about the rest the Messiah was to do.

    And Paul…what can I say? Need to read Acts 1:21-26 and tell me Paul is an Apostle. More like an impostor. The Jesus even says there are only 12 Apostles and Paul made himself the 13th.

    Again, can the NT be the inspired word of G-d if one lie is found within its pages? How many lies can there be and still be called “inspired”? Explain why most here don’t even agree with what’s written within this “inspired” book.

    I am not perfect yet, but the spirit of God that abides in me, is working for that goal, just as it says, ” for he (God) works in us, both to Will, (cause us to desire) and do of his (God’s) good pleasure’.

    Is G-d looking for perfection? Please cite the passage where G-d says HE expects perfection from mankind. This is another lie of Paul’s.

    Jesus was right, if we “lust” after a woman, we are commuting adulatory with her in our hearts, so you are guilty of committing the act , (in your heart)> if you do it in your heart you will do it . …..”so a man thinks, so he is”. That is also written.

    So if one lust after a woman they have committed the act of adultery (in their heart) even though the act was never committed?!?! Then to say if you do it in your heart to will actually do it?!?!? Do the men you associate with not have self control and proceeded to have an adulterous relationship with said woman. Think it may be time to find new friends. You quote Prov 23:7 as your proof, you may want to include verse 6 with it for context (eyes roll).

    God judges not only our actions but also our hearts, as in the case of Cain, God know before Cain committed the act , what Cain would do.

    You have a verse from the Tanakh where it says G-d judges our heart or does G-d look at the heart and know the desires of man? Of course G-d knew what Cain would do; the biggest take away with G-d’s conversation with Cain is the fact G-d told him he had power over sin. Why won’t you address this conflict of your Pauline teachings?

    #946967
    Keith
    Participant

    The ruling Throne is in heaven, but no where does it say the resurrected are in heaven. Only the ones in the first resurrection=the little flock are in heaven. The great crowd is not promised heaven anywhere in the bible.

    #946968
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    DT, what do you do with this scripture……> Jer 17:10…., “I the LORD search the (heart) , I try the reins (mind) , even to give “every” man according to his ways and according to the fruit of his doings”.

    GOD THE FATHER EVEN TRYS PEOPLE BEFORE THEY ARE EVEN BORN,  just as he did in the case of Jacob and Esau. Saying,  to Rebekah, “two nations are in your womb, and two manner of people, shall be separated from bowels, and the one expletive shall be stronger then the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger.

    Now as the apostle PAUL brought out clearly, this was said “before they were born”, neither had done good or evil yet.  SO THIS SHOWS, us that God does choose people’s faits before they are even born.   So where does you “self willed” righteousness fit in that DT?

    Cloud Esau, have repented and changed his destiny? , I think not, neither can you or I on our own, change our hearts or our minds.  Only God the Father can do that. IMO, EVEN JESUS SAID YOU CAN’T EVEN COME TO HIM, “UNLESS” THE FATHER DRAW YOU”,  AND it is obvious you aren’t drawn to him , by the very words of your own mouth.

    Again I say to you, “if you reject the messenger, you are also rejecting the one who sent  him”.

    peace and love to you and yours DT………gene

     

    #946969
    Keith
    Participant

    God foretold things to show that his will, will always occur just as he says. Then the blind mortals can clearly see he is real and he is THE ONLY TRUE GOD. And that is a rare occurrence when God did that.

    God desires-ALL to repent and turn around so that they will not be destroyed=0 fate involved. They must choose using free will to listen to God.

Viewing 8 posts - 25,941 through 25,948 (of 25,948 total)
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