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Basic logic

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  • July 3, 2015 at 5:04 pm#800638
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The only way Jesus can be the Son of God is if there are two God and if there is two Gods then you have polytheism.

    Chances are that Kerwin mistyped. I think he meant to say:

    The only way Jesus can be God is if there are two God and if there is two Gods then you have polytheism.

    July 3, 2015 at 5:05 pm#800639
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Apparently a lot of people are confused about it.

    July 3, 2015 at 5:15 pm#800640
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Just look what you’ve done T8,you’ve driven Kerwin to denying Jesus as being the only Son of God. For to be the only Son of God makes him a god or even God. This is why the mystery of Trinity evolved so there can still be just one God for those who prefer that or not.

    July 3, 2015 at 5:33 pm#800642
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Do you worship the Son of God T8? If so then you’re guilty of worshiping the”second God” as blessed Origen called him.And maybe you are a polytheist too.

    Actually modalism is the best answer according to basic logic.Most trinitarians actually think more in the terms of modalism but will of course deny that if questioned.Even St Augustine leaned on modalistic logic in his reasoning for trinity.

    July 3, 2015 at 5:34 pm#800643
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    AndrewAD. The reason you are confused is you over analyse things.

    The simple explanation is Kerwin mistyped, but we await his reply.

    As for the whole Trinity debate being confusing, I agree it is. But:

    Once you remove the Trinity everything clears up.

    The Father is the one true God and Jesus his son is simple for anyone to comprehend. There is no excuse.

    Remove the Trinity from the word God and scripture makes perfect sense.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Now add the Trinity Doctrine to John 3:16
    For the Trinity so loved the world, that they gave their only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in them should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    So now we have two who are Jesus. The one who is God and the other who is the son of God.

    As soon as you see scripture through the Trinity Doctrine, the confusion begins.

    Why do I even need to explain this?

    July 3, 2015 at 5:36 pm#800644
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    T8, as for what Kerwin typed or mistyped it works the same way according to basic logic. He got it right.

    July 3, 2015 at 5:36 pm#800645
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Do you worship the Son of God T8? If so then you’re guilty of worshiping the”second God” as blessed Origen called him.And maybe you are a polytheist too.

    Nonsense. You do not know what you are talking about.

    Worshipping Jesus as the son of God does not mean he is God.

    The word worship is the same word honour and bow down. It is used legitimately of men too.

    Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    July 3, 2015 at 5:38 pm#800646
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    T8, as for what Kerwin typed or mistyped it works the same way according to basic logic. He got it right.

    Nonsense. If two are fully God, then that is one who is 100% God and another who is 100% God. That is two Gods.

    July 3, 2015 at 5:52 pm#800647
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    It’s a matter of worshiping a greater and lesser god then. If you do that does that make you a polytheist? Oh of course not according to you. Am I right?

    July 3, 2015 at 8:14 pm#800649
    kerwin
    Participant

    AndrewAd,

    Kerwin you are antichrist as scripture has said about he that denies the son of God.

    I see you chose to take my words out of context but since you do that with Scripture as well I should be honored.

    Jesus is the Son of God, as of the Spirit; just as are those that believe in him he is not a second God. There is one God and that is God the Father. The other two God’s the Trinitarians claim male up their one God are fabricated by Spiritless men.

    Do you know that God put his Spirit on Jesus Christ? (Matthew 12:18)
    It is God’s Spirit and so it has always been on him.(1 Corinthians 2:11)
    As son as God placed his Spirit on his Servant, Jesus became his son and as the Christ he is the chief son of God.(Galatians 4:6)

    Those who believe Jesus is God cannot believe he is the Son of God as God’s own Spirit has been placed and it is now sent in the name of Jesus Christ.

    July 3, 2015 at 8:20 pm#800650
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    I assumed my reader would understand what t I was stating by the context without the need to add the words “and be God”. I believe you did but AndrewAD did not.

    July 3, 2015 at 9:01 pm#800651
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    It’s a matter of worshiping a greater and lesser god then. If you do that does that make you a polytheist? Oh of course not according to you. Am I right?

    Let me repeat it and hopefully this time you pay attention.

    I worship the Father as God.

    I worship Jesus as the son of God.

    I do not worship the Father as the Son nor the Son as God.

    The Father is God and Jesus is his Son.

    Simple as that.

    July 3, 2015 at 10:52 pm#800653
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    If you worship two gods it makes you a polytheist. I worship God and pay homage to Jesus Anointed. Koine Greek does not always mark the difference between the two but there is a difference. It is probably one of many things you are to understand by the context.

    July 4, 2015 at 2:02 am#800658
    princess
    Participant

    ah T8, Andrew does have a point, your statement has you worshiping two, the father and son.

    now, what you have in your heart & mind could be entirely different, but in print, logically, your a polytheist.

     

    July 5, 2015 at 1:59 pm#800727
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I don’t believe he has a point at all. Yes he would if the word was only ever applied to God legitimately.

    This application of the word ‘worship/honour’ as being only applied to God is a popular Pentecostal teaching, but does it stand when you test it.

    The word ‘worship’ in scripture is used not only of God, but legitimately of men too. Check it out in a concordance.

    People think that you shouldn’t worship anyone but God as spoken of in scripture by an angel.

    And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”

    &

    Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.”

    Nothing in scripture says that we should only honour/worship God. In fact the angel in the first scripture is highlighting the fact that he too is a servant and rejects the honour that John is showing him. The angel is basically saying that he is not worthy to receive such honour, rather give it to God.

    But it is what we honour an angel or person as, that is important. Remember that the word worship is also the word honour.

    People honoured the king of Israel as God’s chosen, (Not as God). We are told in Revelation that people will come at worship at your feet to let them know that God has loved us/them. Nothing about them being God is there.

    So this is the real point. We should not honour anyone as God but the Father. If we honour another as God, then they are an idol to us. And in modern times, there are many idols including celebrities.

    We can and should honour Jesus as the son of God, and we can honour King David and any other servant of God for what and who they are.

    That is the point when you study the word ‘worship’.

    But we  should never honour anyone but the Father as God.

    And who do we honour Jesus as:

    Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.“

    &

    Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

    So we have one worshipped as God, and another as the son of God and the Lamb and there are many others who honour outside of that, so long as they are of God.

    July 5, 2015 at 3:31 pm#800730
    terraricca
    Participant

    hi so it looks that Andrew as no point at all

    July 5, 2015 at 4:28 pm#800733
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    In English there is a difference between hero worship and religious worship. One Koine Greek word seems to have a definition that means worship as in kissing the floor in a temple as well as one that means a type of homage when you kiss the ground. Context must be which definition is used.

    July 5, 2015 at 4:51 pm#800734
    princess
    Participant

    hold on I should read what T8 has written, sorry T8 not one for long speeches. I hold nothing against, ?  you have or have not two gods. I have taken on the aspect to  feel, read, listen and hear.

    note to T8: in print.

    it seems like most are fighting over Christ, everyone just stops in awe and that’s it, one man has your undivided attention,  and to be on the outside of that life is unbearable, intolerable.

    T, as long as the boy is not running around cutting off chicken heads and splatter the blood all over the place. he can do and ask  and search what he wants. at times big T, at times +  he thinks, that is not a sin or is it? eh! he is a bit witty.

    Andrew, I don’t do well with blood gods,  and yes I state not nice things about the male gods, so the use of god is a girl is dear to my heart. truly the greatness of spirit holds no gender, but I am not there yet, my journey has me here.

    Bodhitharta,

    the original name for female is “beautiful evil” did you know that? the thought was nice.

     

    ****alright, read T8’s post, T8 this is the nicest thing you have ever said to me.

    “We are told in Revelation that people will come at worship at your feet”

    say it again……..

    “We are told in Revelation that people will come at worship at your feet”

    alright if you insist…………LOL! You know T8 when hear something over and over again………..you start taking it as truth, without thinking twice 😉

    all the best gentlemen, always a pleasure.

    July 6, 2015 at 11:09 am#800748
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Study scripture and you will see the word ‘worship’ in a biblical context and who that word is legitimately applied to. I did that. The idea that Jesus is/was worshipped as the Son of God and the Lamb somehow making him God is drawing at straws. This idea is but one more farcical argument for the Trinity. If you or anyone has scriptural evidence that being honoured/worshipped makes you God, then I am willing to look at that. Until you can show me that, opinions will have little to no sway over me.

    July 8, 2015 at 12:43 pm#800788
    princess
    Participant

    T8,

    Hypothetically you have God and Jesus standing in front of you. You are asked to bow to your God? whom do you choose?

     

     

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