Are there two Spirits or One?

The Holy Spirit is a spirit, but is the Father also a spirit?

Well we know that the Father is God and God is spirit. The Father is the Father of all spirits and life. The Father is also the father of our Lord Jesus Christ? But the gospels tell us that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary and because of this, the child was to be called the Son of God. So who is the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Father or the Holy Spirit?

Luke 1:35
The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

The answer is that both are the father if the Trinity Doctrine is to be believed. However, I will demonstrate that the Spirit of God is the Father’s own spirit and is not another person as many believe.

1 Peter 1:14-16
Be obedient to God, and do not allow your lives to be shaped by those desires you had when you were still ignorant. Instead, be holy in all that you do, just as God who called you is holy. The scripture says, “Be holy because I am holy.”

John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

So God is holy and God is a spirit, thus he can be described as a holy spirit. However, we are also taught that there is one spirit, so God is more correctly called ‘the Holy Spirit’, not as one holy spirit among two or many. If the Trinity Doctrine were true, then there would be two Spirits, the Father and the Holy Spirit. But scripture tells us there is but one Spirit.

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Further, scripture clearly says that “The LORD is the Spirit”, thus the Father who is God is the Spirit. Most agree that the Father is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit took part in his conception with Mary. If the Holy Spirit was another person, then Jesus would have two fathers, the Father and the Holy Spirit. That is if the Trinity Doctrine was a true doctrine.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Also, if God is Spirit and he imparts his spirit into redeemed vessels, and if he will eventually be in all and through all, then that would suggest that God the Father will inhabit all by his own spirit. And we know he is the God of the living not the dead, so his spirit is life and the source of all life for his creation and also for his son. So creation is not inhabited by two spirits but one, that is God’s own spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Luke 20:38
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.

Finally, we are taught in scripture that he is the Father of spirits.

Hebrews 12:9
Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

For me I think of this in this way.

Q: Who is God?
A: The Father?

Q: What is God?
A: He is spirit

God is the Father and God is the Holy Spirit. This is not two persons but two aspects of the same God. While God is in heaven, he can inhabit all creation by his own spirit. Just as the sun is located in the centre of the Solar System, its rays shine out to all the Solar System. Similarly, our Heavenly Father can inhabit all creation by his spirit. However as an aside, God’s own creation is not even big enough to contain him. He exists outside the cosmos too.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

1 Kings 8:27
“But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built!

So God the Father can inhabit his creation by his own spirit.

This also makes sense when we read the following:

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

It is worse to speak against the Spirit than it is against the Son. This demonstrates to us that God is above the son and even his Spirit is above his son because the Spirit of God is God and the son of God is the Son and we know that the head of Christ is God in the same way that the head of man is Christ.

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Viewing 20 posts - 81 through 100 (of 248 total)

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Author
Posts
July 23, 2015 at 2:55 pm#801303
kerwin
Participant
Nick,
It is the Spirit that teaches. It is for others to judge if the case I make comes from the Spirit or from flesh.
July 23, 2015 at 3:19 pm#801304
princess
Participant
seduced by the whore and her slut daughters teachings.
tell me more……………
Dear Princess,
Why should you trust the twisted logic of all this religious philosophizing when you can come home to Rome and have your girly God.You can have your bread and eat it too.
……. again will decline.

It would not be needed if we had not forgotten so much.
who forgot, Kerwin.
T,
I was wrong, I’m sorry. I think Andrew is running around cutting chicken’s head off.
*did you hear that, that’s were I’m at, the sound of my heart breaking. 🙂 will always love u T.

July 23, 2015 at 3:25 pm#801305
kerwin
Participant
Princess,
Those that claim to follow the Christ.
July 23, 2015 at 3:33 pm#801306
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Yes.
July 24, 2015 at 3:17 pm#801335
terraricca
Participant
hi princess
T,
I was wrong, I’m sorry. I think Andrew is running around cutting chicken’s head off.
*did you hear that, that’s were I’m at, the sound of my heart breaking. 🙂 will always love u T.
that’s ok ,no arm done ,just always stick with those that really can help you GOD and Jesus and THE TRUTH the word of God ,you will be always safe,
failing to do just that you also will run like a chicken without a head , love U in Christ always
July 27, 2015 at 10:59 am#801385
Proclaimer
Participant
Princess, apparently T8 hears those bells too by saying we can “honour” or worship saints in the same way as Christ

@AndrewAD, I am going to prove to yourself (if you are honest) that you are not opposing me, but scripture.
If you do not accept these scriptures then you simply reject what is written in the Bible, it is as simple as that.
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Q: What did they worship Jesus as?
A: The son of God. NOT as God.
Revelation 5: 12-14
12 In a loud voice they sang: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Above we can see that God is worshipped as God and Jesus as the Lamb OF God. There are two being honoured. If Jesus is God, then who is the Lamb?
Q: So where is it recorded that Jesus was worshipped as the Almighty God?
A: NOWHERE, but your own head Andrew AD.
Shachah is the word used for “worship” in the OT. It means:
- worship
- bow / bow down
- obeisance
- reverence
- fall down / stoop / crouch
“Shachah” is also translated as worshiped in the following verse:
Genesis 24:26
Then the man bowed down and worshiped the LORD,
It is also used in 1 Kings 1:23 and translated as “bowed”.
And they told the king, saying, Behold Nathan the prophet. And when he was come in before the king, he bowed himself before the king with his face to the ground.
So most verses that talk about worship are exclusively talking about worship of God. Other verses talk about (but do not encourage) worship toward idols or other gods. But there is also a legitimate use for worship/honour Jesus as the son of God, or worship/honour David as the King of Israel, or worship/honour toward others for noble reasons such as people in government. The next verse proves my statement:
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
So when you see the word worship with regards to God, Jesus, King David, overcomers etc, think of the word honour and praise. Jesus, King David, and those who are overcomers can be honoured and praised for what and who they are. But we do not honour/praise/worship any of them as God. Only God is worshipped as God and if we honour God then it should be the highest honour we can give to anyone, hence worship/honour of God is only different in that he should be honoured more than all others and this would usually involve being prostrate or bowing down before him in absolute praise and regard.
The worship of Jesus as the son of God doesn’t and never has supported the view that Jesus is God. The “Jesus is God because he is worhipped” argument falls over when it is tested.
As believers, we should honour Jesus as the son of God. We should not honour him as the Almighty God because there is only one who is the Almighty God, and that is the Father. We do not honour two Gods, but one who is God, the Father who is the only true God.
Finally, we can honour our parents, praise our kids, and worship God. And this can be expressed in scripture using the very same word. This does not make us and our children God. Once again, context is everything.
Sometimes you just need to dig a little deeper to see the truth.
July 27, 2015 at 3:26 pm#801403
terraricca
Participant
so how should we really understand to worship God differently from all others ?
July 28, 2015 at 10:55 am#801426
AndrewAD
Participant
Dear T8,
No I am not opposing you but worship you for opening my mind to scripture. And here is a question for you;is Jesus Christ whom you worship greater than King David,or your mother,or other prophets? Do you consider him greater than the other humans you worship? is he on a higher celestial plane than other humans? if so then does that make him a demi-god or lesser God? why not? why should all knees bow and confess to him when Isiah claims this for God alone and that his god won’t give his glory to another? Will you bow your knee to one god or two? it’s as simple as that.
And the verse you quote from Revelations 5:12-14 has them worshiping both God and the lamb equally.And isn’t it claimed earlier in Revelations that Christ sits on God’s throne?
July 28, 2015 at 11:22 am#801428
AndrewAD
Participant
Princess, my point in speaking of the whore and her daughters was to show those who speak of the RC church that way that they use the same theological arguments on many points just the same as the one they claim to despise.In doing so they show they are her daughters too. Why call your mother names and still follow her so hypocritically? People criticize RCC for worshiping various beings yet T8 says it’s okay too. And many here use the same apologetics as RCC concerning various scriptural dilemmas and contradictions.
I was being facetious in calling thee home to Rome but at the same time also being realistic.God can be seen as a holy mother and not necessarily as Mary but Mary can be seen that way too. Are you disgusted by the misogyny of the bible and religion? I am too.
July 28, 2015 at 3:08 pm#801431
NickHassan
Participant
Hi Andrew,
Yes the whore has poisoned the food of her children.
Go to the Source.
July 29, 2015 at 1:51 am#801446
terraricca
Participant
kw
It is the Spirit that teaches. It is for others to judge if the case I make comes from the Spirit or from flesh.
this is not so ;read this carefully ;
1Co 3:1 Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.
1Co 3:3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?
1Co 3:4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
1Co 3:5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task.
1Co 3:6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow.
1Co 3:7 So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow.
1Co 3:8 The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor.
1Co 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
1Co 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds.
1Co 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Co 3:13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.
1Co 3:14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
1Co 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
1Co 3:16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you?
1Co 3:17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
1Co 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”;
1Co 3:20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”
1Co 3:21 So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours,
2CO 2:17 For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.
Jn 3:21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
this mean that unless we live by the truth we will never get the light (understanding of the scriptures truth)
July 29, 2015 at 3:39 am#801449
kerwin
Participant
terrarica,
Jesus claims the Spirit teaches and one of his apostles teach that we are to test the spirit of what we hear so what I wrote is from Scripture and Scripture does not conflict with itself.
I certainly do not see where you believe those words from 1 Corinthians 3 disagree with what I said and I will address your words as they seem off topic.
Please point out what you see in that passage that disagrees with my words and then perhaps I connection how your words are not off topic.
July 29, 2015 at 3:46 pm#801467
terraricca
Participant
kw
never mind
July 30, 2015 at 3:35 am#801472
kerwin
Participant
terraricca,
As you say.
July 31, 2015 at 10:48 pm#801541
Proclaimer
Participant
No I am not opposing you but worship you for opening my mind to scripture. And here is a question for you;is Jesus Christ whom you worship greater than King David,or your mother,or other prophets? Do you consider him greater than the other humans you worship? is he on a higher celestial plane than other humans? if so then does that make him a demi-god or lesser God? why not? why should all knees bow and confess to him when Isiah claims this for God alone and that his god won’t give his glory to another? Will you bow your knee to one god or two? it’s as simple as that.
And the verse you quote from Revelations 5:12-14 has them worshiping both God and the lamb equally.And isn’t it claimed earlier in Revelations that Christ sits on God’s throne?
The word worship can mean honour. That is the word I prefer because honouring God involves being prostrate on the floor, while honouring say my mother is not that extreme. As for Jesus, he gets the most honour of all from me except the honour I have for his Father and his God.
And as for the worship of God and the Lamb, well the truth is in the sentence. God AND the Lamb.
August 3, 2015 at 2:27 am#801575
GeneBalthrop
Participant
T8……I do not believe the word worship is the same as honoring, worship goes beyond just honoring brother.IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
August 3, 2015 at 9:04 pm#801600
Proclaimer
Participant
Doesn’t matter what you believe because the point is that the worship and honour is the same word in scripture.
The Hebrew word shachah and the Greek word proskuneo account for more than 80% of the translated word for ‘worship’ in most English bibles.
It is applied to God, Jesus, and men legitimately and to false gods with negative connotations.
Many have been taught for years that only God can be worshipped. This is not entirely true.
Rather, the correct thing to state is only the Father should be worshipped as God.
August 4, 2015 at 4:27 am#801612
kerwin
Participant
Gene,
We have connotations for words and worship is one that our culture has the connotation that it only applies to God. In a thesaurus we are told it is a synonym of honor. Some versions of Scripture use worship where our culture would use honor. I think t8 is basing his understanding on the use of the word worship by those versions. He may have consulted a thesaurus or dictionary as well.
August 4, 2015 at 4:47 am#801614
princess
Participant
Andrew never consider your point of view, nevertheless in context you are correct. Then again, all religions are based lined the same. someone is always in the middle of it; Mohammad, Buddha, Brahma, Saints and yes even Christ. Interesting thought.
my deepest apologies for mis-understanding.
re: misogyny. Have not yet decided either it is priori or posteriori that caused my thoughts to change about religion. I can pull from both.

August 4, 2015 at 5:01 am#801616
princess
Participant
that’s ok ,no arm done ,just always stick with those that really can help you GOD and Jesus and THE TRUTH the word of God ,you will be always safe,
T, you know full well I am not going to do that. Thank you. I do know that you are sincere in your advise.
failing to do just that you also will run like a chicken without a head , love U in Christ always
in all honesty T once I pulled away from Christianity is when the running around like a chicken with it’s head cut off stopped!
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