Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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Viewing 20 posts - 221 through 240 (of 1,323 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #277791
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,12:44)
    Hi T,
    Jesus died,
    Now Jesus CHRIST is the FIRSTBORN FROM AMONG THE DEAD
    That anointing was the power of God in creation and still binds the church to God

    Send forth thy Spirit and they shall be created and Thou shalt renew the face of the earth.


    Nick

    you have an habit of changing subject, refusing to answer ,

    so can you answer me to what I ask ?

    #277799
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,
    I struggle with your english/spelling and I think others do too

    #277801
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,13:38)
    Hi T,
    I struggle with your english/spelling and I think others do too


    Nick

    it is amazing you can not make as a Christian an effort to understand my English,and you believe that the son of God came down for YOUR SINS to forgive them ?

    the difficulty is even greater for me ,

    but then if it is that bad I will refrain me of talking to you and other complainers ,

    Pierre

    #277806
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,
    So would you not attempt to rephrase the question?

    #277821
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    I have asked Pierre that myself many times, but his response
    to me becomes it is because you don't know the answer;
    rather, it is because we don't know the question.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #277829
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,14:33)
    Hi T,
    So would you not attempt to rephrase the question?


    Nick

    what part of it do you not understand,??

    #277831
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 14 2012,15:54)
    Hi Nick,

    I have asked Pierre that myself many times, but his response
    to me becomes it is because you don't know the answer;
    rather, it is because we don't know the question.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    edj

    when it suits you ,you do the same ,suddenly you are not make sens to what i have written ,

    specially wen it does not lined up with your views

    #277871
    kerwin
    Participant

    To all,

    If you test the hypothesis that Jesus is an angel against this scripture then you will see that it contradicts it.

    Hebrews 2:5

    New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus Made Fully Human
    5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.

    #277914
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,05:38)
    Hi t8,
    The angel of the Lord is mentioned in the first verse but not the second.
    There is no suggestion that the rock they drank from was an angel.


    OK, but the Angel of the LORD was present, we know that much.

    There is also many similarities with this angel and with Jesus Christ such as the name and term “wonderful” as well as the fact that Jesus is actually referred to as an angel/messenger.

    Malachi 3:1
    1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking  will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.

    Even Malachi is the word for Angel/Messenger, and most assume that this text is talking of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ who are both men. Feel free to show that this is not speaking of these men.

    Not many people get this because they get too irritable to see what is really being said. I am not trying to say that Jesus is a Cherub or Seraph from Heaven, but that the Angel of the LORD is the Messenger of the LORD and that this messenger bears a strong resemblance to Jesus Christ.

    This messenger appears in the OT accompanied with Angels. He appears to be their head and is always described as very special. In addition to that, his appearance is like lightning, and his clothes as white as snow. He forgives sins, and upon seeing him, men say that they have seen God. This compliments the fact that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, so we know that when we see Jesus we know what God is like.

    Even after all these coincidences, the Angel of the LORD is never mentioned while Christ is on Earth and yet is mentioned many times in the Old Testament.

    It is easy to write such things off, you only have to be stubborn and say, not true. Anyone can do that.
    But people who love truth accept truth because they are teachable and hungry for truth. We learn not just from revelation in scripture and the spirit, but also by pattern.

    Many truths even in Science are discovered by pattern and I believe that we should never write these off but remain open minded about possibilities that have circumstantial evidence.

    #277915
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 14 2012,10:11)
    To all,

    If you test the hypothesis that Jesus is an angel against this scripture then you will see that it contradicts it.

    Hebrews 2:5

    New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus Made Fully Human
    5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.


    Kerwin.

    The Angel of the LORD is the same word as the Messenger of the LORD and both Jesus and John are called messengers.

    When you see the word messenger or angel in scripture, the choice of word is up to the translator.

    Therefore, the Angel of the LORD is not necessarily an Angel by race, but could be the messenger by office.

    If we just think in terms of angels as a species or race, then you are right. But men are called messengers and so is the Messenger of the LORD.

    #277922
    terraricca
    Participant

    Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
    I was filled with delight day after day,
    rejoicing always in his presence,
    Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
    and delighting in mankind.

    #277923
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,
    We need strong evidence.

    #277926
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,18:10)
    Hi T8,
    We need strong evidence.


    Nick

    is understanding of the truth strong evidence ??or is it only evidence to those who believe according to the truth of God ??

    sorry for my poor English

    #277927
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,
    God will teach plainly what is important.
    He offers support in his Word.

    Chasing possibilities by inference is of little value

    #277976
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8………..Come on you do support the idea that Jesus was a “MORPHED” Angel unless i am mistaken in this but this is what i have been lead by your words, you agree with Mike and Pierre about Jesus' Preexistences as a Sentinel Being and used scriptures to shore up this false belief. Jesus was a Man like all other men and came into existence the same way by a Berth from a Women, He recieved the CHRISTOS (or) anointing Spirit of GOD at the Jordan river and was straight way led by it into the wilderness to be tested. The Christos was the anointing on all of GOD'S Chosen Leaders and that includes Jesus also.

    The power of God to get into the mind of man and reveal truth into the Mind of men is what Jesus said was the “ROCK” he would  build the Church on, and that Same “ROCK” was the SPIRIT of GOD following the Childern of Israel in the wilderness.  All his chosen leaders had the anointing on them all through the bible and that same anointing was (IN) the Man Jesus . Just as Jesus said “the FATHER is (IN) ME> GOD the FATHER was (IN) Jesus by the anointing he recieved at the Jordan River. IMO

    peace and love …………………………………………gene

    #278032
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2012,05:55)

    Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 14 2012,10:11)
    To all,

    If you test the hypothesis that Jesus is an angel against this scripture then you will see that it contradicts it.

    Hebrews 2:5

    New International Version (NIV)
    Jesus Made Fully Human
    5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.


    Kerwin.

    The Angel of the LORD is the same word as the Messenger of the LORD and both Jesus and John are called messengers.

    When you see the word messenger or angel in scripture, the choice of word is up to the translator.

    Therefore, the Angel of the LORD is not necessarily an Angel by race, but could be the messenger by office.

    If we just think in terms of angels as a species or race, then you are right. But men are called messengers and so is the Messenger of the LORD.


    T8,

    The hypothesis you put forward is that it was a Messenger of God but not an angel.

    Does that hypothesis stand up to these verses.

    Judges 13

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Then the woman went to her husband and told him, “A man of God came to me. He looked like an angel of God, very awesome. I didn’t ask him where he came from, and he didn’t tell me his name. 7 But he said to me, ‘You will become pregnant and have a son. Now then, drink no wine or other fermented drink and do not eat anything unclean, because the boy will be a Nazirite of God from the womb until the day of his death.’” 8 Then Manoah prayed to the LORD: “Pardon your servant, Lord. I beg you to let the man of God you sent to us come again to teach us how to bring up the boy who is to be born.”

    Judges 13

    New International Version (NIV)

    21 When the angel of the LORD did not show himself again to Manoah and his wife, Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD.

    22 “We are doomed to die!” he said to his wife. “We have seen God!”

    #278035
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yes I think it does stack up in what you have provided.
    It sums it all up in one piece of text.

    He was called a man, an angel, the angel, and was equated with seeing God.

    How many angels are called men, THE angel as opposed to an angel, and is equated with seeing God.
    Whoever he is, he is very special that much is for sure.

    #278036
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2012,10:48)
    Yes I think it does stack up in what you have provided.
    It sums it all up in one piece of text.

    He was called a man, an angel, the angel, and was equated with seeing God.

    How many angels are called men, THE angel as opposed to an angel, and is equated with seeing God.
    Whoever he is, he is very special that much is for sure.


    T8,

    A man of God is also a messenger of God and so why would it be written “Manoah realized that it was the angel of the LORD” unless they discovered her was an angelic being?

    The two angels that came to Lot were also called men.

    #278053
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2012,13:00)
    T8………..Come on you do support the idea that Jesus was a “MORPHED” Angel


    With a comment like that, it shows you are not listening to me. No point in dialog with you is there.

    #278057
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,11:10)
    Hi T8,
    We need strong evidence.


    You need strong evidence to teach something as truth. Very strong. But I don't throw away possibilities because some things are only discovered when one delves into scripture and bringing it to the light one can possibly prove it or disprove it by scripture.

    Nowhere in scripture is it taught that Jesus did not exist in some form before coming as a man. On the contrary it says that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, partook of flesh, died for humanity, and rose from the dead to the glory that he had with the Father before the world began. And what is the form of God. Is God a spirit. And are beings in heaven in that form? Is the Messenger of the LORD in that form?

    Truth is found when you mine the pearls in scripture and I agree that if something is not explicitly taught, then you can only offer something as a view or possibility until you find a scripture that proves or disproves the idea. This is what I am doing here, very few are able to comprehend that for some reason even though I have tried to spell it out a number of times. I am asking for help to disprove it or prove it. Either way I am happy.

    I gave the example of people discovering truths in science or medicine based on patterns and I guess I don't have to show that many crimes are cracked by asking questions that might appear foolish to begin with. But most certainly, when there is some evidence whether that is circumstantial, coincidental, or proof, it is worth checking out if you love the field that you are in. think about it. If something is true, then evidence will point in that direction and if you look long and hard and discover something very strong, then you likely have a case.

    How for example did you see through the deception of the Trinity. I bet there was a time when you were not sure, but had a few scriptures that seem to back up the conviction you had, all the while people said, “more evidence” or “what a load of cobblers” and tried to shoot you down. Have you forgotten that so quickly. Yet I am guessing that you pressed on and discovered something that most have not discovered for themselves because they never gave it a chance.

    If we shoot every idea down in its infancy then it never gets a chance to see the light of day or to be tested and then you have successfully become the oppressive force that you tried to become free of yourself. I think I can speak for most here and say that we appreciate constructive feeback whether that is evidence in support or to the contrary. Because evidence either way is welcomed by those who love the truth.

    So how about it. We try and prove it either way by looking at the evidence instead of shooting it down with personal comments.

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