Where is Jesus in the Old Testament?

Many argue that Jesus is not mentioned in the Old Testament. Of course many religious Jews believe this to be the case because they do not believe he is the prophecied messiah. But there are also others who are not religious Jews who believe the Old Testament scriptures never mention or allude to Jesus being the messiah. Is this correct? Did the New Testament writers get a little too creative when they claim that Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the scriptures? Let’s take a look.

There is no argument that the New Testament contains gospels, letters, and teachings centred around the theme that Jesus is the Messiah. And we know that the Old Testament talks about the Messiah. But is there enough evidence to link this messiah to Jesus. Is there proof that he fulfilled the prophecies of the coming messiah as written in the Old Testament?

Yes indeed. There are Old Testament scriptures and prophecies that only Jesus of Nazareth has fulfilled. While his name is not mentioned for obvious reasons, Jesus Christ is certainly the only person in history to fulfil the prophecies and scriptures that we will look at.

Isaiah 51

This verse of the suffering messiah clearly speaks of Jesus. If you asked anybody who this verse is talking about, there is no doubt that the average person on the street would say it was Jesus. Even if you asked the average Jew this question, they too would say it is Jesus (Yeshua). Below is a video that proves this statement.

Next, we take a closer look at this chapter. While it seems to clearly point to Jesus Christ, some argue that it is talking about Israel. This is the go to interpretation for those who deny Jesus. Let’s imagine this is true and draw some conclusions from this interpretation to see if it makes any kind of sense. Listed below are the points this chapter makes that do not fit at all with Israel. The list comprises of 4 sentences with the word ‘Israel’ added in to see if it makes any sense. Following on from that, are the actual words of Isaiah 51.

  1. Israel has no beauty or majesty to attract us to him;
  2. Israel took up our pain,  bore our suffering, pierced for our transgressions, and by Israel’s wounds we are healed;
  3. Israel was assigned a grave with the wicked,  and with the rich in his death, though Israel had done no violence;
  4. Israel poured out his life as an offering for sin and will justify many,  and bear their iniquities.

1. Who has believed our message
    and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
    and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
    nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
    a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
    he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
    and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
    stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
    he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
    and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
    each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
    the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
    yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
    and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
    so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
    for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
    and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
    nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

If you are fair and unbiased, it seems that Isaiah 51 is talking about Jesus. Further, Israel doesn’t seem to fit in this verse. While somethings could fit, points like suffering and dying for the sins of humanity doesn’t fit with Israel in the slightest.


Psalm 22

Just before Jesus died on the cross for humanities sins, he quoted Psalm 22:1. It is important to know that it was a practice to quote a scripture and the hearers recite the rest of the scripture. It was a good way to remember the scriptures. Jesus quoted the first verse in that Psalm so that the hearers might understand what was happening before their eyes. See Matthew 27:46:

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
(which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

Now look at Psalm 22:

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
    “let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
    since he delights in him.”
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
    and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
    a pack of villains encircles me;
    they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
    and cast lots for my garment.

If you look at the above scripture and particularly the verses that are bolded, you will see that they are a very apt description for the death of Jesus. Let’s read what John wrote regarding the time just after the death of Jesus. It spells out some of the prophecies that were fulfilled.

John 19

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.
32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other.
33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.
34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.
35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”
37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

The New Testament writers certainly believed that Jesus fulfilled Old Testament scripture. If you do not believe this to be the case, then ask yourself who in history has fulfilled these. If you are rational about it, you would at least have to admit that Jesus was the lead contender. In fact the only contender to date.


Daniel 3

In the Book of Daniel, it appears that the Son of God makes an appearance with three men who have been cast alive into a furnace. A fourth person appears who King Nebuchadnezzar says “the fourth looks like a son of the gods.” In other words, if the gods had a son, then this was him. Of course, there is but one Almighty God, and yes he does have a son. It is possible that this fourth person is an angel, but throughout the Old Testament an appearance of the Angel of the LORD is frequent. Many say that this is Jesus Christ before he came in the flesh, but others say it cannot be him as the Son of God was never an angel. This view does have a lot of merit though. Let’s address it by first reading Daniel 3:15-25.

15 Now when you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipe and all kinds of music, if you are ready to fall down and worship the image I made, very good. But if you do not worship it, you will be thrown immediately into a blazing furnace. Then what god will be able to rescue you from my hand?” 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.” 19 Then Nebuchadnezzar was furious with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, and his attitude toward them changed. He ordered the furnace heated seven times hotter than usual 20 and commanded some of the strongest soldiers in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego and throw them into the blazing furnace. 21 So these men, wearing their robes, trousers, turbans and other clothes, were bound and thrown into the blazing furnace. 22 The king’s command was so urgent and the furnace so hot that the flames of the fire killed the soldiers who took up Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, 23 and these three men, firmly tied, fell into the blazing furnace. 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?” They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.” 25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”

The word Angel is found throughout the Old Testament. It usually refers to heavenly creature who delivers a message from God to humans. However, it can also refer to humans as they can be messengers too. Thus, angel or messenger can be applied to many kinds of being if they are a messenger of God. So this answers the concern that Jesus is not an angel. He actually is an angel or messenger, but not the usual messenger which are usually heavenly cherubs etc.

But there is a also a specific angel called: ‘The Angel of the LORD’ who appears numerous times in the Old Testament, but never in the New Testament. One reason for this could be that this messenger is none other than Jesus Christ before coming in the flesh and who would deny that Jesus is the main Messenger of God?

If this is him, then you would expect no appearances of this messenger during the time Jesus was alive on Earth and this is the case. It is also interesting to note that persons who saw this messenger as recorded in the Old Testament often said that they have seen God even though God himself is invisible. How do we make sense of this? Well in Colossians 1:15-16 we read:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Colossians certainly fits with Jesus being the Angel of the LORD in the sense that there is no double up of them appearing at the same time and the fact that Jesus Christ is the exact image of the invisible God in bodily form whiches matches the description of seeing God. Let’s read more about the Angel of the LORD to see if this could be the identity of Jesus before he was born into this world.

To be continued.

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  • #208784
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I don't have an agenda here Lightenup, but Jesus is referred to as an angel, just as John is.

    Mark 1
    1 The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
    2 It is written in Isaiah the prophet:
      “I will send my messenger ahead of you,
         who will prepare your way”—
    3 “a voice of one calling in the desert,
      'Prepare the way for the Lord,
         make straight paths for him.'

    So here we see that John is being referred to as an angel (ang'-el-os) which is translated as messenger. The word angelos is translated to messenger referring to John the Baptist in Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27 which are describing the same account. Luke 7:24 uses angelos (translated messengers) to refer to John the Baptist's disciples.

    John is also called an angel/messenger here:
    Malachi 3:1
    1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking  will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.

    Here the word for angel/messenger in the OT is mal'ak and in addition to John being called that, so is Jesus in the above scripture. Also, Malachi is Mal`akiy which is a name based on the word for angel/messenger/mal'ak.

    The NIV translates angel, angels or angel's 169 times versus messenger or messengers 6 times.

    So obviously there needs to be an explanation that caters for the fact that angel/messenger is the same word and is used to describe messengers from heaven as well as messengers on earth.

    Some say that angel is an office or function, and not a race. And we know that there are men, cherubs, seraphs, who are more specifically races or types of beings.

    Any explanation as to what angel means needs to take this into consideration.

    #208785
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 04 2010,14:07)

    Quote (Arnold @ Aug. 04 2010,06:47)
    But it does not say that the Angel of the LORD is Jesus.  On this one I agree with Nick.  I do not see a clear Scripture that says that Jesus is an Angel.   He was the firstborn and is the Son of God.  Even though the Angels are also called Sons, but they did not come forth fro  Jehovah God.  While Jesus did.  He is the literal Son of God, even though it says that He is the beginning of the creation of God in Rev. 3:14…..but in Col. 1:15 it says that He is the image of the invisible God.  And also in Hebrew 1:5 God says:” To which of the Angel did I ever say:” You are my Son, Today I have begotten You?”
    And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son.
    verse 6 But when I again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:” Let all the angels of God worship Him:”
    It is clear to me that Jesus is not an Angel.  When you read on to verse 6,7, and 8 Jehovah God calls His Son God…..
    Peace and Love Irene


    Correct. It doesn't say that Jesus is the Angel of the LORD directly as far as I know.

    But who would deny the possibility that he could be the messenger of YHWH? And we know that there was a particular one called the Messenger of YHWH that forgave sins and his name was Wonderful.

    Tell me who that was. If you do not know, then you have to at least acknowledge a possibility here. That is all I am doing – acknowledging the possibility.


    t8 I do agree with that, however does a Messenger have to be an Angel? Is there a possibility, of course, anything can be with God, if He wills it…Jesus did come to Earth to do the will of His Father and teach us that the kingdom will come…..He died for us and went back to where He was before…Oh, yes it's us….This time however I will remember my password which I use every day at Face-Book.
    Peace to You

    #208786
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    In fact just to prove my point further (Lightenup), the following scripture says that the thorn in the side of Paul was an angel/messenger/ang'-el-os of Satan.

    2 Corinthians 12:7-9
    7 To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

    I am not so sure that the thorn in the side of Paul was a heavenly creature with wings, rather that it acted as a messenger of Satan as it was doing his bidding.

    #208788
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Brian @ Aug. 13 2010,19:18)
    however does a Messenger have to be an Angel?


    Hi Irene. Like your new name.

    Messenger and Angel are the same word ang'-el-os. There is no distinction as such. It is translators who use the same word to mean 'angel' for heavenly messenger and 'messenger' for earthly messenger.

    #208813
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 13 2010,03:03)
    I don't have an agenda here Lightenup, but Jesus is referred to as an angel, just as John is.

    Mark 1
    1 The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
    2 It is written in Isaiah the prophet:
      “I will send my messenger ahead of you,
         who will prepare your way”—
    3 “a voice of one calling in the desert,
      'Prepare the way for the Lord,
         make straight paths for him.'

    So here we see that John is being referred to as an angel (ang'-el-os) which is translated as messenger. The word angelos is translated to messenger refering to John the Baptist in Matthew 11:10, Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27 which are describing the same account. Luke 7:24 uses angelos (translated messengers) to refer to John the Baptist's disciples.

    John is also called an angel/messenger here:
    Malachi 3:1
    1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking  will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.

    Here the word for angel/messenger in the OT is mal'ak and in addition to John being called that, so is Jesus in the above scripture. Also, Malachi is Mal`akiy which is a name based on the word for angel/messenger/mal'ak.

    The NIV translates angel, angels or angel's 169 times versus messenger or messengers 6 times.

    So obviously there needs to be an explanation that caters for the fact that angel/messenger is the same word and is used to describe messengers from heaven as well as messengers on earth.

    Some say that angel is an office or function, and not a race. And we know that there are men, cherubs, seraphs, who are more specifically races or types of beings.

    Any explanation as to what angel means needs to take this into consideration.


    Yes t8,
    I am aware that angel means messenger also. Jesus was definitely a messenger and not a created angel. God created the angels through Him.

    #208828
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote (t8 @ Aug. 13 2010,19:26)

    Quote (Brian @ Aug. 13 2010,19:18)
    however does a Messenger have to be an Angel?


    Hi Irene. Like your new name.

    Messenger and Angel are the same word ang'-el-os. There is no distinction as such. It is translators who use the same word to mean 'angel' for heavenly messenger and 'messenger' for earthly messenger.


    Oh, well I couldn't Log-In under Arnold no matter what I did. I tried and I tried, and gotten 8 process #, but never got the Password which I had forgotten. So I just registered. And the new password is the same that I use on a daily basis for Face-Book. Wouldn't forget that….I don't like to be old, the memory goes….Brian is our youngest Grandson's name. I could not think of anyone else….As far as the Angel of the LORD is concerned, to me whatever Jeus was, He now is immortal and that is what counts now….
    Thank you Irene

    #208860
    JustAskin
    Participant

    LU,

    I'm with t8. he has answered for me.

    T8, thanks, you got there before me.

    #208909
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Brian @ Aug. 14 2010,02:33)
    Oh, well I couldn't Log-In under Arnold no matter what I did. I tried and I tried, and gotten 8 process #, but never got the Password which I had forgotten. So I just registered. And the new password is the same that I use on a daily basis for Face-Book. Wouldn't forget that….I don't like to be old, the memory goes….Brian is our youngest Grandson's name. I could not think of anyone else….As far as the Angel of the LORD is concerned, to me whatever Jeus was, He now is immortal and that is what counts now….


    The email was sent. In fact 2 were sent as you made 2 requests. But you might have changed your email address and hence, the passwords are being sent to the old one.

    It is a good idea to update your profile with your latest email address for this reason.

    Anyway, nothing wrong with Brian.

    Reminds me of “The Life of Brian”.

    #277674
    david
    Participant

    I bring this thread up because it seems like some may want to discuss related topics.

    I find T8's first post's interesting.

    #277739
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 28 2006,19:49)

    Quote (Mercy @ Sep. 28 2006,03:33)
    I see overwhelming evidence that Jesus existed prior to his incarnation.

    I see a some strong evidence that he was the angel of the Lord.


    Hi Mercy, I agree with you….on both counts…

    Blessings
    :)


    This means that Is believes that God is an angel because he believes that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Angel of YHWH.

    Obviously he cannot believe both, so he has to change at least one of his beliefs.

    #277740
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Exodus 14:19
    And the Angel of God, who went before the camp of Israel, moved and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face and stood behind them.

    In the New Testament we read this account:

    1 Thessalonians 4:13
    For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
    2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
    3 They all ate the same spiritual food
    4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.

    Is this proof or strong evidence that Jesus is the Angel of the LORD?

    I am interested in unbiased and well thought out responses only.

    #277746
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    T8…………Paul was not say that “rock” was Jesus the man or any Angel , he was saying that Rock was the (ANOINTING) Spirit of GOD , It was In Moses and other leaders of Israel and was also in Angels too, it all was the SAME SPIRIT ANOINTING of GOD doing that.

    peace and love……………………………………………….gene

    #277762
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Yes GB,
    And the Spirit of Christ was also in the prophets of old.[[1peter 1]

    #277773
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2012,07:36)
    T8…………Paul was not say that “rock” was Jesus the man or any Angel , he was saying that Rock was the (ANOINTING) Spirit of GOD , It was In Moses and other leaders of Israel and was also in Angels too,  it all was the SAME SPIRIT ANOINTING of GOD doing that.  

    peace and love……………………………………………….gene


    gene

    you do not give any understanding to those verses

    and Nick is looks approved your confusion pack of words

    this i can not understand ???why??

    #277776
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,
    The foundation STONE is Jesus CHRIST.
    1Cor3

    #277778
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8
    1 Thessalonians 4:13
    For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
    2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
    3 They all ate the same spiritual food
    4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.”

    This is 1Cor 10 1-4 not 1 Thess 4

    Cross references include ex 17.6
    num 20 7-11 ex 13 21-24

    What you offer could not be called STRONG evidence.

    #277783
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,
    The angel of the Lord is mentioned in the first verse but not the second.
    There is no suggestion that the rock they drank from was an angel.

    #277784
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,11:59)
    Hi T,
    The foundation STONE is Jesus CHRIST.
    1Cor3


    Nick

    you right ;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
    Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
    Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
    Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
    Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
    Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
    Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation

    IS THIS SCRIPTURES DOES NOT SAY THAT CHRIST HIS THAT STONE ? IN OTHER WORDS BUT MEANS THE SAME THING DOES IT ?

    Pierre

    #277785
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T,
    Jesus died,
    Now Jesus CHRIST is the FIRSTBORN FROM AMONG THE DEAD
    That anointing was the power of God in creation and still binds the church to God

    Send forth thy Spirit and they shall be created and Thou shalt renew the face of the earth.

    #277788
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,05:44)
    Hi T,
    Jesus died,
    Now Jesus CHRIST is the FIRSTBORN FROM AMONG THE DEAD
    That anointing was the power of God in creation and still binds the church to God

    Send forth thy Spirit and they shall be created and Thou shalt renew the face of the earth.


    Amen!

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