The Beast Revealed

Introduction

The following is a presentation of an eschatological view that teaches the Islamic Caliphate as the last head of the Beast mentioned in the Book of Revelation. The purpose of this teaching is to present this theory as a possible interpretation that fulfills the prophecies regarding the seventh Beast on Earth, (actually the seventh and eighth kings spoken of by John). This Beast is an Islamic Empire and is said to be ruled by the Islamic Mahdi whose description uncannily matches the Antichrist spoken of in the Bible.

Seven Headed BeastThere are of course a number of popular end-time theories. Let’s first take a quick look at two popular eschatological views.

The Futurist View says that Europe is the Beast, the Antichrist a Jew, and the Mark of the Beast as a computer chip or bar-code implanted into people’s right-hand or forehead for the purposes of buying and selling.

The Preterite View interprets prophecies of the Bible as events that have already happened throughout history. This view usually features The Roman Empire, emperors, the Vatican, and popes as having fulfilled many end-time prophecies. I personally remain open minded on all the views out there and do think there is some merit with many of them, but obviously all cannot be right in their entirety.

An important thing to note before me move on to this new eschatological view is where other views place Islam. Many consider Islam to be important enough to play a part in the End Times, but they do not know where if at all it is mentioned in the Bible. This teaching places the Islamic Caliphate as the last head of the Beast.

The Islamic Beast Eschatological View

The Islamic Beast eschatological view for want of a better title is conjecture just like all other views. But it seems to tick all the boxes and is worthy of our consideration because the evidence is very compelling. Without further ado, I present the evidence that supports the Islamic Caliphate as the last Kingdom that belongs to the Beast that rises from the Great Sea headed by the Antichrist.

The AntiChrist

The Bible clearly states that antichrists deny the Father and the Son in 1 John 2:22-23:

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.

The Quran states clearly in Quran 2:116
Who says “Allah has begotten a Son”?

Quran 10.68
They say, “Allah hath begotten a son!” Glory be to Him! He is Self-Sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this!

To understand how central to the Islamic faith it is to oppose the view that God has a son, these words are inscribed in the mosque at the Dome of the Rock where the Jews formerly worshipped YHWH:
“Far be it from God that he should have a son!”
Thus Islam is an antichrist religion according to scripture.

Who conquered the Roman Beast?

Nebuchadnezzar Statue

Nebuchadnezzar Statue

In scripture and history we see that each head on the Beast (kingdom) was succeeded by the next, i.e., Babylon was conquered by Persia was conquered by Greece was conquered by Rome. So it would be logical to think then that whoever conquered Rome could be the next Beast if we follow this pattern. However, many remain confused about who conquered Rome because they believe that the Roman Empire just fell into decline rather than being conquered by a succeeding empire. What many do not consider is that the Roman Empire had two legs, the western leg and eastern leg and this is even pictured in the statue of Daniel’s vision in Daniel 2:32-33:

“The head of that statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.

While the western leg did indeed decline over time, the eastern leg continued to exist for another thousand years. Think of Constantinople rather than Rome. So while we may view Rome as the center of the Roman Empire, in the last period of this empire, the capital was moved to Constantinople in the east which is now modern day Istanbul in Turkey. This period of the Roman Empire is often referred to as the Byzantine Empire hence why there is some confusion as to how the Roman Empire was conquered. Rest assure however that the Byzantine Empire was still the Roman Empire. It is called by this name to identify this phase of the Roman Empire. Historians do not consider the Eastern Roman Empire as being a different empire from the Roman Empire when its capital was Rome. The east did not conquer the west, instead the same empire just moved its capital from Rome to Constantinople. Both the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire terminology are terms created after the end of the realm. Its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire. and themselves as Roman citizens.

The Ottoman Empire in 1795

The Ottoman Empire in 1795

So who conquered the Roman (Byzantine) Empire? It was the Ottoman Empire which was actually the first Islamic Caliphate. So the seventh empire spoken of by John appears to have already been fulfilled, it was the Ottoman Empire. Known as a Caliphate, it initially took control of the region and it said to have reached empire status when it conquered the Roman capital of Constantinople. It subsequently became the capital of the Ottoman Empire and was renamed to ‘Istanbul’.

In case you think that the Ottoman Empire was not significant enough to be compared with the previous empires that make up the Beast, then know this. It reigned for a significant period of time, from 1299 to around 1924. It could be argued that the Ottoman Empire was more of a state until 1453 when it conquered Constantinople the capital of the Roman Empire. And at the height of its power, it controlled much of southeast Europe, the Caucasus, Western Asia, and North Africa, even as far south as the Horn of Africa.

More proof for the identity of the seventh kingdom

Revelation 17:9
Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

While the popular view of the Beast is a revived Roman Empire, the above scripture (Revelation 17:9) shows us that the Roman Empire was only the sixth kingdom because that was the empire that reigned when John gave the prophecy, (five have fallen, one is). We can clearly see that there is still a seventh kingdom to come and also an eighth which is of the seventh (or seven). We also know that each kingdom/empire was succeeded by the next and that the Ottoman Empire conquered the Roman Empire and took over its capital.

Another significant feature of  The Ottoman Empire was its length of rule. It reigned for 500 years or so over a huge swathes of land around the Mediterranean Sea. Its capital was Istanbul in Turkey which was called Constantinople during the reign of the Eastern Roman Empire. These two points are significant because Istanbul resides in modern day Turkey today and scripture itself actually tells us that Turkey is the location for the seat of the Antichrist and the Beast. It also says that the Beast arises out of the ‘Great Sea’ which is the Mediterranean Sea, we will read about this later. First take a look at Revelation 13:2:

The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

We can see that the Dragon (who is Satan) gave his throne to the Beast. So where is Satan’s throne located? Take a look at Revelation 2:12:

“To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘I know your works, and where you dwell… where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to my name, and did not deny my faith even in the days in which Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.  

So where is Pergamum? It is in Turkey, the very same country where both the capitals of the Roman Empire and Ottoman empires were located. Is it a coincidence then that both the late Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire had their capitals in the very same country as the location of Satan’s throne?

Other popular views today regarding the seventh head/kingdom include: the British Empire and or the American Empire. But there is one simple verse in Daniel that rules out any other empire outside of the Mediterranean as being part of the Beast. The verse is Daniel 7:1-3

In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.

According to most commentary on the term ‘great sea’, it is identified as the Mediterranean Sea. In fact if you google “The Great Sea” Google also tells you that it is the Mediterranean Sea. If this is correct, then we can see that the Beast or the last four empires are indeed from the Middle East and specifically around the Mediterranean, which by reason of this excludes empires outside of this region. In fact all seven empires had extensive coastline in the Mediterranean Sea, even Egypt.

Picture this. Just outside of Israel is a Beast that is ready to devour the Jews and occupy the promised land. It is not too hard to see what is happening here. God carves out a country for himself as we read in scripture, in order to demonstrate his power and existence to the Gentiles. Satan’s opposition to Israel (the promised land) is surrounded by a Beast that attacks and persecutes not only that nation, but all her offspring too.

Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

This is one of the signs of each head of the Beast. They persecuted the Jews and even captivated them. We cannot say the same about The British Empire or the American Empire.

The seven kingdoms

Let’s take a look at all seven gentile kingdoms that ruled the biblical world in succession:

  1. Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
  2. Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
  3. Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
  4. Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
  5. Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
  6. Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
  7. Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)

Note: Many of these empires existed at the same time, but the following empire defeated the previous empire in this list. The dates are approximate.

The Beast receives a deadly wound

Which of the heads then suffers a deadly wound?

“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”

We also read that this beast is referred with the following description: “whose deadly wound was healed”.

Understanding this, we see the history of the Ottoman/Islamic Empire as fitting that description perfectly. It ceased to exist in the wake of WW1 meaning that the whole seven headed beast actually died because all the previous heads of the beast existed in succession. So the beast is officially gone today. Over a century later, we have seen the attempted rise of an Islamic Empire when ISIS declared its Caliphate. It failed as we all know,  but that is obviously not the end of the story. Many in the Islamic world long for an Islamic Caliphate.

ISIS caliphate projection

ISIS optimistic 5 year projection of new Caliphate

Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.,

Next we read in Revelation 17:11:

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

This perfectly describes the rise of a future Islamic Caliphate. If the Ottoman (Islamic) Empire was the seventh and the eighth comes from the seventh, then the rise of an Islamic Caliphate in modern times could indeed be the fulfillment of these scriptures. This means the Beast that once was will be again.

We further read in scripture that this whole Beast will be destroyed by a stone that struck the statue. That stone is the Kingdom of God and it will spread to the whole Earth. There are also a number of signs in scripture that also describe the nature of the Islamic Caliphate that we see on the rise today. If true, this means that Islam will be conquered by Christ and his kingdom.

What about a revived Roman Empire instead of an Islamic Caliphate

But what about the view that the Roman Empire will be the empire that comes back to life. This is a popular view and one that has been taught for many years. This of course is still possible and fits in the realm of this Islamic Eschatological view because most immigration to Europe is coming from the Islamic world. Also notice that the eighth king doesn’t necessarily mean it belongs to the seventh kingdom, but it could be all of the seven. Let’s read that verse again:

Revelation 17:11:
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Does this mean seventh or all seven? I don’t know.

It could turn out that Europe is still part of this resurrected kingdom. In Daniel 2:43 we read that the feet are not just clay, but iron mixed with clay.
You saw the iron mixed with clay–the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with fired clay.

If the legs of iron were Rome and the two legs the East and West, then the last kingdom is a mixture of that iron but with clay.

Iron mixed with clay

Did you know that the word ‘mixed’ here is actually the word ‘arab‘ in Aramaic. Further, if the iron is the Roman Empire and the mixing of clay is infiltration or taking over by Arabs as we see with the Ottoman Empire’s takeover of the Roman Empire, then it could happen once again where Arabs/Muslims takeover parts of Europe and continue to hold the Middle East as they do today.

Perhaps those who predict a revived Roman Empire’ are correct. Accept it may not be ruled by Romans/Europeans, but Muslims who are immigrating and invading Europe in hordes. The Muslim population in Europe has a much higher birth-rate than the native Europeans who are in decline. It is immigration that bolsters Europe’s population and if Muslims in Europe become large enough, Europe or parts of it could become Islamic states in the future. If this were to happen, Israel could easily find itself surrounded by enemies much further afield too. Israel is of course already surrounded by enemies, but there may not be a sympathetic Europe to help protect them if the Islamic world were to invade Israel at some point. If Muslims could rule not only the Middle East but a future Europe too or large swathes of it, then that would only leave only the USA as a partner for Israel. While the USA could remain a friend of Israel in years to come, they may also reject Israel, or perhaps the USA itself could fall. The latter two would leave Israel on their own. Of course this is all speculation, but it is good to keep an open mind on this as there are many ways this could all play out.

Muammar Gaddafi once said:

We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.
Speech (10 April 2006), quoted in New York Sun (6 September 2009)

The Mark of the Beast

Islam MarkWhile traditional eschatology teaches that a computer chip or bar-code of some kind will be placed on/in the hand or forehead in the last days, Muslims already wear on their forehead their mark which is, “In the name of Allah”. Remember that the mark of the beast is not just a number, but is also both a name and a mark/symbol. See Revelation 13:16-17

“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

Allah in Arabic

Allah in Arabic

So what exactly does it mean when scripture says ‘name’? And could the creed of Islam really be the mark, the number, and the name. Scripture uses the word ‘name’ often to identify a person as you would well imagine, but scripture also uses that word to describe the essence or character of a person or thing. Just as the Old Testament says of the coming messiah that his name shall be called ‘Emmanuel’ (God is with us) he was not actually called by that name, rather its meaning or creed was used to describe the coming messiah. Likewise the creed or name of Islam is written on the foreheads of these radical Muslims. Islamic Mark 666

The term “In the name of Allah” in Arabic resembles 666 (χξς) in Greek. It is possible that John actually saw in his vision the mark or name of Allah and it reminded him of the number 666 or he just wrote the symbol down as he saw it and translators wrote it down as 666 as it was the closest thing to the symbol

This view also could explain a puzzle. While most ancient texts say the number is 666, some say ‘616’ and nobody knows why. So what was it about this part of the text that caused some manuscripts to copy it as 616? What if John saw the Arabic for “In the name of Allah”? That could explain the confusion because he didn’t see a Hebrew number, instead he saw what looked like a number but was actually a name, and also a mark/symbol. “…except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

In the future, it is not hard to imagine an Islamic leader or prophet forcing people to wear the symbol or name of Allah on their foreheads and further barring anyone not identifying their allegiance this way as being barred from buying and selling in society thereby denying basic things like food, shelter, and medicine. People would either wear this mark or reject it and face hardship even starvation by rejecting it. A visible wearing of this mark would identify whose side you were on. (You also have to wonder how the Futurist eschatological view of a computer chip, RFID tag, or barcode as the mark could also be a name or a symbol?)

The abomination that causes desolation

What about the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel? Well look no further than a The Dome of the Rock. Remember that written on the wall of this mosque is “Far be it from God that he should have a son!”. The mosque supposedly sits in the holy place where the Jewish Temple stood and given that Islam denies the son of God, then it could be said that it is an antichrist temple in the place of the Jewish Temple. Further, the Hadith (a compilation of oral reports after the death of Muhammad compiled by different authors) say that the Mahdi (Islamic messiah to come) will eye Jerusalem and the Dome of the Rock as his home. Perhaps one day the Mahdi will sit in this temple as Islamic prophecy teaches. That could certainly qualify as the abomination in the holy place.

Jerusalem Temple Mount and Dome o the Rock

Jerusalem Temple Mount and Dome of the Rock Mosque

Who is beheading the Christians?

Revelation 20:4
…And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Can you imagine Italians, Romans, or the Vatican beheading Christians during the tribulation of the last days? To be fair the Vatican could have done this in the past. Today it is exclusively Muslims who are beheading Christians and others. Beheadings and even crucifixions are being performed today by radicals of Islam. Decapitations of course are a recurring theme during the 1,400 years of Islamic history. The earliest biographer of Muhammad recorded the decapitation of 700 men from the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina by order of Muhammad in 768 C.E. (‘Abd al-Malik Ibn Hisham, The Life of Muhammad.) So why does Islam have a history of beheadings? You don’t have to look any further than their own so-called holy book.

Quran 47:4
“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.”

Quran 8:12
“I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

It seems that the Quran encourages the killing of non-Muslims and in particular Christians and Jews. This ties in with what the Bible says in John 16:2.

but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me. “But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Who in the world kills Jews and Christians and by doing so think they are doing service to God? Is this not a perfect description for Radical Muslims today?

Who worships the dragon?

If Islam is Antichrist, then can Allah be the true God? While some consider it a name which just means God (including Arabic Bibles), it has to be said that Satan is also a god according to scripture, i.e., the god of this age/world.

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

So just because someone is called God or a god, that is not proof that it is the one true God because there are many so-called gods or false gods. So what kind of God are we talking about whose religion fits the Bible’s description of antichrist? And what is it that we see over 1 billion people doing before this God every day. In fact Islam required that Allah is worshipped five times a day with varying bodily positions performed including laying prostrate. In Revelation 13:4 we read:

they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”

Here we see that men will worship the dragon. Scripture reveals the dragon as Satan in the same Book of Revelation. The word ‘satan’ means ‘adversary’. The word ‘worship’ has a number of associated meanings with one being ‘prostrate‘ which means ‘lying on the ground with one’s face downward’. A perfect description of those who worship Allah don’t you think? Also bear in mind that the heads of the Beast or kingdoms that have made up the Beast in history cover an area of the world that is predominantly Muslim. So the majority of the Biblical world today which is also where the Beast resides,  actually belongs to Islam. They deny outright that Jesus is the son of God which by biblical definition is how the Antichrist spirit reveals itself. They worship Allah five times a day and prostrate themselves before Allah. The question is begged, is Allah, Satan of the Bible? Well we know that the true God has a son, and Satan doesn’t have a son because he cannot procreate or begat. So if Allah doesn’t have a son, then he cannot be the true God because the true God has a son.

Who has declared war against the most terrible of nations?

Ezekiel 28:7-8
Therefore, behold, I will bring strangers upon you, the most ruthless of the nations and they will draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom and defile your splendor. ‘They will bring you down to the pit, and you will die the death of those who are slain in the heart of the seas.

Many think the above verse is talking about Islam and the Mahdi/ Antichrist. It says that he will declare war against the most ruthless/terrible of nations. Who are the most ruthless of nations today? The word ‘ruthless’ is synonymous with ‘terrible’. Translations usually use one or the other word. Terrible and ruthless in other verses is talking about being ruthless in battle. See Ezekiel 30:10-11 for example:

“I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. “He and his people with him, the most ruthless of the nations, will be brought in to destroy the land; and they will draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain.

So who are the most powerful military powers today? Well that would have to be the USA and the West in general. And who today has declared war on the USA and the West? I can only think of one entity, The Islamic World.  And notice that it is a coalition of nations or more than one nation that defeats this enemy. This could be describing the West. If this view is correct, then we could certainly be near the end of this age as there is already a war against terror or Radical Islam vs Israel and the West or the West vs Radical Islam. However, I hesitate to include this idea because it is not certain that this verse is talking about the time of the end or some other time after the prophecy was given. I continue to investigate this opinion as it might be an important clue.

The Mahdi as the Antichrist

In the Islamic world, The Hadith is a compilation of oral reports after the death of Muhammad compiled by different authors over the centuries. They contain Islamic teachings and prophecies. The Mahdi prophesied in the Hadith is a person  whom Muslims await in a similar fashion as Christians awaiting the second coming of Christ. When you compare the descriptions and prophecies of the Mahdi with what is written in the Bible about the Antichrist, they seem to be talking about the same person or at least match the descriptions and prophecies of the Bible. Are they the same person?

  • Both are military leaders

Both the Mahdi and the Antichrist are described as a powerful political military leaders.

  • Both are stout

Both the Mahdi and Antichrist are described as being stout with unusual eyes. See Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. The Hadith says: Mahdi translates to ‘guided one’. His appearance will be the first sign of the third period. The Mahdi will be looked upon to kill Al-Dajjal and prepare for the reign of Jesus who will rule for a time after. The physical features of Mahdi are described—he will be of Arab complexion and average height with a large belly, large eyes and a sharp nose. He will have a mole on his cheek, the sign of the prophet on his shoulder. He will rule for seven years. His name will be announced from the sky. He will bring the Ark of the Covenant to light. His banner will be black and unstitched, with a halo. He will be helped by angels and others that will prepare the way for him.
Notice that his banner will be black. This is what we see when ISIS overtakes a new territory. They raise black banners because they are trying to fulfill this Islamic prophecy.

  • Both sign seven year treaties

In the Hadith quoted above, you can see that the Mahdi will rule for seven years. Further, he will sign a seven year peace treaty Rasulullah [Muhammad] said: “There will be four peace agreements between you and the Romans [Christians]. The fourth agreement will be mediated through a person who will be from the progeny of Hadrat Haroon [Honorable Aaron – Moses’ brother] and will be upheld for seven years. (Tabarani, as related by Hadrat Abu Umamah, as quoted by Zubair Ali, p. 43 and Abduallah, p. 55) In Daniel 9:27 we read this: He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. In the Islamic world, it is acceptable to break a treaty, if you are advancing the cause of Islam. If the Dome of the Rock is the home of the Mahdi, (or even a rebuilt Jewish temple on this site) then him sitting in this temple could be the sign of the broken peace treaty which is the ‘abomination that causes desolation’ as mentioned by Daniel.

  • Both change laws and times

Makkah Clock Royal Tower

Makkah Clock Royal Tower

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Compare Daniel 7:25 with the obviously fact that Islam seeks to impose Sharia Law and the halal mark and you have a similar description. Further, there is also an increasing voice in Islam to change Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) to Mecca time. The world’s largest clock was unveiled in 2010 in Saudi Arabia. Its first official duty is marking time during Ramadan. The clock looks very similar to Big Ben (which keeps GMT) except it is six times taller making it the third tallest building in the world. The sheer size of this clock is meant to dwarf Big Ben in a symbolic move to make Islamic Time more prominent than Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).  Some have argued that GMT is the remnant of a colonial heritage, and it is time to turn over a new page. So the stage is already set for the Mahdi to move away from colonial laws and time to Islamic Sharia Law and Islamic Time.

  • Both target Christians, Jews, Israel, and Jerusalem

Radical Islam today targets all who do not accept Sharia Law, but especially persecutes Christians and Jews. It is not hard to accept that the Mahdi would take this to a new level such as what we read about the Antichrist in the Bible. Further, one of the main missions for Radical Islam is to wipe Israel off the map. This is why Hamas and other Palestinian authorities often refuse to agree to any deal to live alongside Israel or acknowledge her existence. Matthew 24:16-21:

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Daniel 7:25:

“He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.”

  • Both honor a god of force/strongholds/war

It is clear that Radical Islam uses force or war to advance Sharia Law. It is justified in the Quran as a way to get people to worship Allah and obey Sharia Law. It would be assumed then that a future Mahdi would follow suit or take this to a new level. We read in the Quran the following: Quran 2:244 “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.” Quran 4:74 “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.” Also, in Quran 4:76 “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…” In the Bible, we read in Daniel 11:38-39 But instead he will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom his fathers did not know; he will honor him with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures. “He will take action against the strongest of fortresses with the help of a foreign god; he will give great honor to those who acknowledge him and will cause them to rule over the many, and will parcel out land for a price. It also says that the will not regard the God of his fathers. This could mean he is an offspring of Abraham, but an Ishmaelite, thus the God that he does regard could be Allah, not YHWH who is the God of Abraham.

This same verse in the KJV and Webster’s Bible Translation says God of forces, while the Young’s Literal Translation says god of strongholds. I like the latter as it describes Satan’s works that Jesus came to destroy. We are told a number of times that we can bring down the enemy’s strongholds and certainly Islam is a stronghold. Further, Paul uses the word ‘fortresses/strongholds’ in 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, which he uses metaphorically to describe the spiritual battle before us: , NASB – Though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses or NIV – For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

  • Both do not honor the desire of woman

We all know about women’s rights in Islam. In Daniel 11:37 this trait is identified with the Antichrist: Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women, … This verse seems to say that the Antichrist will not regard the desire of woman. While it is hard to know what that really means, taking it at face value seems to be the most accepted meaning. If that meaning is true, then it fits with the religion of Islam which has little regard for women in general.

The False prophet

We can see the connection between the Biblical Antichrist and the coming Islamic Mahdi, but scripture also mentions the false prophet. The Qur’an itself also prophesies the coming of the Islamic Jesus who is called “Isa Ibn Maryam”. Like the Bible, the Qu’ran says that he will return, but like all prophets in Islam, their Jesus is considered a Muslim.

According to the Hadith, the Islamic Jesus will descend in the midst of wars fought by the Mahdi, He will fight against the Dajjal who is called the Antichrist or False messiah according to Islam. The Islamic Jesus will descend east of Damascus dressed in yellow robes. He will join the Mahdi and help fight against the Dajjal. Then the Islamic Jesus will slay the Antichrist, and at this point the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) will believe in him and will become part of Islam.

If the Antichrist of the Bible is the Madhi of Islam, then it seems logical at least that the False Prophet of the Bible is the Islamic Jesus. The idea is that if the Jews and Christians can be convinced that their Jesus is the true messiah, then they will convert to Islam. Now lets read about the False Prophet in Revelation 13:11-12

Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed

Notice that this second beast who is the False Prophet is likened unto a lamb. This is important because Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. So the false prophet is one who tries to mimic Jesus Christ, except he has two horns and speaks like a dragon. Further we know that the dragon is Satan, so the Lamb speaks like Satan. Satan means adversary, so this lamb will be adverse to the true Lamb of God.

The Bible and the Quran

It seems that  after John wrote the Book of Revelation, Satan decided to counter the prophecies by raising up a false prophet who started a religion that was the counter of what we read in the Bible. It didn’t help Christianity that it had fallen into false doctrine and idol worship around this time. It was perhaps this falling away that helped Islam take hold. With consequent centuries, the Islamic influence grew and even ruled as an empire after it conquered the Roman Empire with the conquering of Constantinople which was considered Christian. From there, it was a matter of converting all the people of the Ottoman empire to Islam. Eventually the area become predominantly Muslim and even the original seven churches in Revelation became an area dominated by Islam. This was achieved by converting people and killing those who refused Islam.

The role of the Trinity

In Islam’s early days it may have appealed to people who were sick of idol and saint worship as well as the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Trinity. The Quran gives a clue in 004:171 Rashad:

O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, “Trinity.” You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.

It seems that the Doctrine of the Trinity was one of the Christian doctrines that they opposed and even though this doesn’t make the doctrine wrong, the doctrine is in the least, completely unnecessary and has caused much harm and division for Christians.

Even today, Christians preach the Trinity as a foundational doctrine, yet there is nothing in the Bible that says that they should preach the Trinity to anyone. Even many teachers whose eschatology is similar to this one still preach the Trinity. This is sad because it helps alienate Muslims and Jews from the gospel. It is an unnecessary stumbling block. Instead we should be preaching that Jesus is the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord. Look at Peter’s answer as to who Jesus was and look at the response from Jesus.

Matthew 16:13-20
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Simply put, this is the truth that we should be preaching with regards to who Jesus is because this is what the Father has revealed about his identity. To truly convert Muslims or religious Jews to Jesus Christ, they need only to believe who Jesus is besides required repentance etc. Muslims already accept that Jesus is the messiah, but reject that he is the son of God. In my experience it is not as hard as you think for Muslims to be converted and accept Jesus as the son of God and as the one whom God made both Lord and Messiah, (see Acts 2:36). However, they rarely accept the Trinity Doctrine and for good reason. It is not part of the gospel, it is not part of the elementary teachings of the faith, instead it was a doctrine that came centuries after the last book in the Bible was written. It may even have been this doctrine that helped Islam gain a foothold in this part of the world in the first place. Sadly it is still preached as being a requirement by many Christians today. If we want to convert Muslims and Jews with the gospel, then do not put unnecessary stumbling blocks in their way. To learn more about the Trinity Doctrine feel free to read this page.

That wraps up this presentation of this eschatological view and while it is quite different to more traditional views, it does explain a lot of prophecies well, where some of these other views struggle. However, it is important to remember that we would do well to consider new information and ideas that might come along in the future that could change everything. The last thing we should do as Believers in Christ is believe this or any other eschatological view wholeheartedly leaving us free to accept a future RFID chip in our bodies for example because our eschatological view does not accept a computer chip as the Mark of the Beast. Simply put, be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Further those who hold stubbornly to certain views can cause divisions over arguments regarding differing views. Remember, we should make every effort to be at peace with our brothers.

Facts to consider

To sum up this eschatological view here are some facts to consider.

  1. The antichrist spirit exhibits a number of traits, one being that they deny the Father and Son.
  2. Because Islam teaches that God has no son, they clearly and openly deny that God is a Father and that he has a son.
  3. Islamic Caliphates are not only political entities, but they are also religious with their own laws and times.
  4. The Ottoman Empire was the next empire after the Roman Empire. It conquered the Roman Empire.
  5. We are told that their will be an eighth kingdom which is of the seventh or seven. See Revelation 17:11.
  6. Rome was clearly the sixth kingdom. It was the one that was in existence, when John gave the prophecy. See Revelation 17:9-10
  7. Historians do not consider the Eastern Roman Empire as a different empire from the western empire. The east did not conquer the west. The capital moved from Rome to Constantinople. That period of the kingdom is called the Byzantine period.
  8. Both the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire terminology are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm. Its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire.
  9. Daniel sees the Beast rise out from the Great Sea. That is the name for the Mediterranean Sea in scripture, thus the kingdoms of the Beast are located around that sea.
  10. Islam gained ground partly because Christianity had fallen into idol & saint worship as well as false teachings.
  11. The Bible and Quran seem to teach the opposite of each other. It seems that one is the adversary of the other.
  12. The Book of Revelation tells us that Satan’s throne was in Turkey, the very country that the Ottoman Empire had its seat of government. It was also the seat of the Roman Empire during the Byzantine period.

Videos

Here are some videos containing teachings and evidence for this end-time eschatology. I do not necessarily support everything here or support the organisations behind the videos. Just food for thought in the context of this teaching.

The Islamic Beast

Soft Islamic Invasion of Europe

The Color of Islam


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 541 through 560 (of 649 total)
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  • #891011
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Adam……What I have given you is the “overview” of it all,  What your doing I believe is getting buried in the details, if those details don’t  fit the “overview ” , the you must adjust or try to Aline to it.  Start with the overview I have given and then fill in the blanks to fit it. Believe me you really can. 

     

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

    #891014
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene AND ALL

    We are now living in the Fifth time period of “Iron and Clay”. The next to come, will be the Sixth world ruling Kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s, and Satan will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit, for one thousand years,  then he will be released for a short time,and the the Babylonian system will rise again as the Seventh world ruling Satanic system of rule and out of that will come the Eighth, consisting of ten nations and will completely destroy the Seventh kingdom of Babylon rule forever , then they shall go after the Sixth kingdom of Jesus and the Saint’s to destroy them, but God the Father will bring down from heaven fire on them and destroy them all  and the devil will be cast into the lake fire and go into perdition for ever, and God the Father will return to this earth and Jesus will turn his kingdom over to him, and become subject to the Father as we all will forever and ever. 

     

    Me

    IRON AND CLAY IS ONLY THE SECOND PHASE OF THE FOURTH EMPIRE(IRON). IT IS ALWAYS THE FOURTH BUT DIVIDED(v.41), STRONG AND FRAGILE, SEEKING UNION THROUGH HUMAN ALLIANCES, BUT NOT THE COVENANT IN CHRIST. THEY WILL NEVER BE UNITED(v.43).

    WHEN THIS PHASE OF THE FOURTH EMPIRE PASSES, THE KINGDOM OF GOD WILL BE ESTABLISHED, THIS IS AFFIRMED BY DANIEL 2:44

    And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall NEVER BE DESTROYED: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

     

     

    #891015
    Berean
    Participant

    IDEM IN DANIEL 7 

    [17] These great beasts, which are four, are FOUR KINGS , which shall come out of the earth. 

    [18] But the saints of the Most High will take the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever. 

    FOUR HUMANS KINGDOMS ,THEN KINGDOM OF GOD WITH THE SAINTS

    Note :FOUR KINGS = FOUR KINGDOMS (v. 23) YOU WILL NEVER SEE FIVE HERE IT IS TALK ABOUT WORLD EMPIRE. THE FIRST BEING THAT OF BABYLON. Thou, O king (NEBUCADNEDSAR), art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. [38] And WHERESOEVER THE CHILDREN OF MEN DWELL, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

    #891019
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Let’s take your example of Roman Empire in two legs one West and the other East. I ask you why not we take legs of the Image of Nebuchadnezzar as North and South Greece Kingdom as clearly uttered in Dan 11?

    One reason is Greece being two empires ahead of Babylon, not three.

    #891021
    gadam123
    Participant

    One reason is Greece being two empires ahead of Babylon, not three.

    Sorry??? Please clarify with verses. You never replied my query on Rome as fourth Empire with proof in Daniel whereas I have given you  verses for Greece being the fourth Empire of Daniel.

    #891022
    gadam123
    Participant

    I am quoting the verses again for your ready reference;

    The writer of Daniel clearly mentioned four (names) kingdoms in his texts. Please check the following verses;

    1. Babylon (Dan 1: 1; 2:37) God had given a kingdom to Nebuchadnezzar

    2. Media (Dan 5:31; 9:1; 11:1) A fictitious king  Darius named for Median kingdom by this writer.

    3. Persia ( Dan 6:28; 10:1; 10:13; 11:2) Daniel was living at the time of Cyrus the Persian king and few details of kings Persia mentioned in these verses.

    4. Greece (Dan 8:21; 10:20; 11:2) Dan 11 talks about the fourth kingdom the realm of Greece in details including the little horn, the Antiochus IV.

    The four Kingdoms were Babylon, Media, Persia and Greece as per this writer. As per Chap 8 & 11 the Little horn would arise from Greece the fourth kingdom. Followed by the so called fifth kingdom of God’s saints which never took place after this fourth kingdom.

    #891023
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The Medo-Persians, led by King Cyrus II, invaded Babylonia from the east in June of 539 B.C. and captured its capital, Babylon, in July of the same year.

    #891024
    gadam123
    Participant

    The Medo-Persians, led by King Cyrus II, invaded Babylonia from the east in June of 539 B.C. and captured its capital, Babylon, in July of the same year.

    But the book of Daniel differs this. Please read Dan 5:30-31

    30 That very night Belshazzar, the Chaldean king, was killed. 31  And Darius the Mede received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old.

    This is the Problem with the traditional interprets they don’t want to see what the writer intended us to know. They want to stick to their ideas. The second Kingdom was Media as per this writer and not Medo-Persia.

     

    #891025
    gadam123
    Participant

    The Book of Daniel originated from a collection of legends circulating in the Jewish community in Babylon and Mesopotamia in the Persian and early Hellenistic periods (5th to 3rd centuries BC), and was later expanded by the visions of chapters 7–12 in the Maccabean era (mid-2nd century).

    The “four kingdoms” theme appears explicitly in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, and is implicit in the imagery of Daniel 8. Daniel’s concept of four successive world empires is drawn from Greek theories of mythological history. The symbolism of four metals in the statue in chapter 2 is drawn from Persian writings, while the four “beasts from the sea” in chapter 7 reflect Hosea 13:7–8, in which God threatens that he will be to Israel like a lion, a leopard, a bear or a wild beast. The consensus among scholars is that the four beasts of chapter 7, like the metals of chapter 2, symbolise Babylon, Media, Persia and the Seleucid Greeks, with Antiochus IV as the “small horn” that uproots three others (Antiochus usurped the rights of several other claimants to become king)

    The traditionalists included to Rome as fourth kingdom by clubbing Media & Persia together as second Kingdom which was not the intention of this writer. Rome is no where found in this book. Christian and Jewish apologists allegedly included Rome,  as the so called God’s Kingdom of his saints never took place as predicted by this writer.

    #891027
    gadam123
    Participant

    Here is another Christian interpretation of Dan 2 image.

    The image of Daniel 2

    The image has a head of gold, and Daniel interprets it as follows:

    ‘You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the sons of men, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the air, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold.’

    Thus we are told that the head of gold represents Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. Under Nebuchadnezzar, Babylon rose to a position of great power, wealth and magnificence.

    The breast and arms of this image are of silver and Daniel interprets as follows:

    ‘And after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to you’.

    (As per Dan 5:30-31) Daniel is here describing the Median empire. This empire was contemporaneous with the Babylonian empire, but after the death of Nebuchadnezzar in 562 BC it became the stronger of the two, because the power and wealth of Babylon immediately declined. Babylon was still a power, but the scales had tipped in favour of the Medes. Remember that the head of gold symbolizes Nebuchadnezzar, and Daniel says, ‘And after you (Nebuchadnezzar) shall arise another kingdom inferior to you.’ Following the death of Nebuchadnezzar, Media was the major power for at least twelve years until it was united with Persia in 550 BC under the rule of Cyrus. The Median empire did not, however, have the glory and magnificence of Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylon—it was of inferior quality.

    It is often objected that the Median empire did not really follow after the Babylonian empire—it was contemporaneous with it. It may be replied, however, that the order of Daniel’s kingdoms is the order of their rise to the height of power and prominence. Daniel does not say that each kingdom exists only from the time of destruction of the preceding kingdom to the time of its own destruction. The order of the kingdoms is notmerely the order of their existence—it is the order of their occupation of the seat of supreme power: in other words, the order in which they held the title of ‘top nation’! This is confirmed in the vision of the four beasts, because we learn there that after the fourth kingdom has been destroyed, the first three kingdoms continue to exist for a while together, although their dominion is taken away from them. This clearly indicates that they are to some extent contemporaneous.

    The assertion that there was no Median empire between the Babylonian and Persian empires seems to be based on a misconception. This misconception is the idea that Persia succeeded Babylon as dominant world power when it overthrew Babylon in 539 BC. Persia in fact became the dominant world power some years before Babylon fell. Cyrus built up a very large and powerful empire which outstripped the Babylonian empire several years before he got round to conquering the latter empire. If it be admitted, and so it must, that Persia became dominant world power before the actual fall of Babylon, it can also be admitted that Media may have been the dominant world power before Persia.

    Babylon and Media were the two great rivals for world power, and after the death of Nebuchadnezzar, it seemed inevitable that Media would overthrow Babylon. This was the state of affairs for a few uneasy years. But suddenly, events took an unexpected turn. Media’s king was overthrown by one of his own vassals, the brilliant Persian king, Cyrus. Cyrus united the Medes and Persians as allies under his own rule; but from this time Persia was on the ascendant. For some years the two peoples held the reins of power together; but the Persians had the edge on the Medes and increased their power until they were completely dominant.

    Daniel continues the interpretation as follows:

    ‘… and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth’.

    The third kingdom is symbolized by the image’s belly and thighs of bronze and is to ‘rule over all the earth’. The characteristic of this third kingdom is the immense area over which it rules. This is the perfect description of the Persian empire, because the most striking aspect of that empire was the huge area it covered—it was by far the vastest empire the world had seen. The following Greek empire was in fact slightly smaller than the Persian empire. In all regions except Greece and across the Indus river, Alexander’s Greek empire either fell short of or failed to extend beyond the limits of the Persian empire.

    Cyrus himself created the largest empire the world had seen up to that time; but his successors continued to push the frontiers outwards until the Persian empire was truly breathtaking in size. In a series of brilliant campaigns Cyrus annexed the entire Median empire, the large and powerful kingdom of Lydia in Asia Minor, much territory in the East—and then the Babylonian empire. His successors added all Egypt, a chunk of Europe and more territory in the East.

    Note also the way in which Daniel groups together the second and third kingdoms. The second kingdom is passed over quickly with a brief and belittling remark, possibly indicating that its term of supreme power is comparatively insignificant and short-lived, as well as being inferior in wealth and magnificence. It is grouped with, and closely followed and overshadowed by, the world-ruling third kingdom. The whole description is strongly suggestive of the Medo-Persian situation, because the comparatively insignificant Median empire was absorbed and eclipsed by the subsequently enormous Persian empire only a very short time after it (Media) had itself surpassed Babylon. The description of the second and third kingdoms fits the Median and Persian empires far better than it fits the huge, wealthy, long-lived Persian empire and the rather smaller Greek empire.

    #891028
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Greece is the fourth metal

    Daniel 6:28
    So Daniel prospered during the reign of Darius and the reign of Cyrus the Persian.

    Daniel 5:27-28
    TEKEL means that you have been weighed on the scales and found deficient. PERES means that your kingdom has been divided and given over to the Medes and Persians.

    The Book of Daniel describes the Medes and the Persians as one kingdom. But like all kingdoms, there are multiple kings. Some might have been Persian, others Mede. But still the same kingdom. The same goes for Babylon. Nebuchadnezzar was definitely not the only king of Babylon. He was the king when the prophecy was given.

    In the history of the Roman Empire we also see kings being assassinated and replaced etc. It doesn’t become a new kingdom just because a new king takes over because of the death or replacement of the previous king. This is a bit like the feet of iron mixed with clay. In other words, the Roman Empire was taken over by another people. The capital of the empire was taken over.

    #891029
    gadam123
    Participant

    Please check my latest post for clarity on this.

    #891030
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The Book of Daniel states that the kingdom was given to the Medes and the Persians, thus according to that book, these two were one empire. So that leaves Rome as the two legs. Simple. It may well be that together they were strong enough to conquer. But like all partnerships, it could be problematic later on with conflicts between the two.

    We are debating the Book of Daniel and you are asking me to use that book. Done!

    #891031
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Why the Medes and Persians are considered one kingdom in the Book of Daniel

    “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold. “After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. 

    TEKEL means that you have been weighed on the scales and found deficient. PERES means that your kingdom has been divided and given over to the Medes and Persians.

    = Medes and Persians are one kingdom

    Anything else you would like to discuss?

    #891032
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Christian interpretations are a dime a dozen just as scientific interpretations are. It’s a natural consequence of investigating something that needs interpreting. No big deal. Some theories are better than others.

    #891035
    gadam123
    Participant

    Continued from Daniel 2 to 7 and further…

    The four beasts of Daniel 7

    Daniel recounts, ‘The first was like a lion and had eagles’ wings. Then as I looked its wings were plucked off, and it was lifted up from the ground and made to stand upon two feet like a man; and the mind of a man was given to it.’

    The winged lion is familiar in Babylonian art. The eagle was a symbol of swiftness and the lion one of strength and nobility (2 Sa. 1:23). The eagle was the king of birds, and the lion the king of beasts. They correspond to the image’s head of gold, the metal which was regarded as the noblest and most valuable of all metals. Almost all are agreed that this beast represents Babylon and that the change which comes upon it probably symbolizes Nebuchadnezzar’s madness and subsequent restoration (Dn. 4). Note that again Babylon in the time of Nebuchadnezzar is strongly indicated. The Bible repeatedly describes Nebuchadnezzar and the Chaldeans of his time as being like both an eagle (Dt. 28:49–53, cf. 2 Kings 25:1–11; Je. 49:19, 22; La. 4:19; Ezk. 17:1–5, 11–14; Hab. 1:6–8) and a lion (Is. 5:25–30; Je. 4:6, 7, 13, cf. 25:9, 38; 49:19, 22; 50:17, 44). These creatures were used to convey a picture of Nebuchadnezzar coming from afar against the Jews and their neighbours and carrying them off as captives to Babylon. The book of Daniel always associates the glory and magnificence of Babylon with Nebuchadnezzar (Dn. 2:37, 38; 4:22, 30, 36; 5:18, 19).

    It is a historical fact that Nebuchadnezzar was largely responsible for the glory of the Neo-Babylonian empire. He came to the throne when his father died in 605 BC, soon after the final obliteration of Assyria—an event which Nebuchadnezzar helped to bring about. During his long reign of 43 years, Babylon was practically invincible. Moreover, he lavished immense wealth and architectural skill on his capital city, making it world-famous for its magnificence and strength. Nebuchadnezzar was both a great soldier and a great builder. After his death, however, a series of relatively weak kings followed each other in rapid succession and Babylon’s power declined. She was still a power, but whereas she formerly had the edge on her great rival, Media, the position was now reversed.

    Daniel continues, ‘And behold, another beast, a second one, like a bear. It was raised up on one side; it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, “Arise, devour much flesh.” ’ Although the bear is not so swift as the lion, it was equally feared, owing to its great strength and the unpredictability of its actions. The lion and the bear are mentioned together a number of times in Scripture (1 Sam. 17:34; Prov. 28:15; La. 3:10; Am. 5:19), and both were clearly objects of special fear and respect. In a similar way the rival powers of Babylon and Media together commanded the nations’ fear and respect. The bear is a comparatively slow-moving and clumsy creature; therefore this symbol applies better to the Median empire than to the Persian. The career of Cyrus the Persian was characterized by a succession of swift and brilliant victories, better symbolized by the next beast, which is a leopard.

    We are told that the bear ‘was raised up on one side’, and I suggest the following explanation. Media’s period of power was divided into two very different stages. During the first stage she was the powerful head of a large empire—this is represented by the side of the bear which is raised up. During the second stage she was the somewhat inferior partner of Persia—Daniel is careful to emphasize (chapters 5, 6 and 8) that the Medes and Persians ruled together as allies for a number of years following Cyrus’s victory over the Median king in 550 BC. This part of Media’s reign is represented by the lower side of the bear. During her partnership with Persia, she was still ruling the nations, but in a humbler capacity than before. Her partnership with Persia constituted the world’s most powerful empire; but despite the exalted nature of her continued ruling of the nations, it was not as exalted as it had been before the rise of Persia.

    We are told that three ribs were in the bear’s mouth between its teeth, and that it was commanded, ‘Arise, devour much flesh.’ It is generally agreed that the three ribs must represent three nations conquered by the bear, and that the bear is ordered to arise and make fresh conquests. The identities of the three nations, however, have remained in doubt. The Bible itself, as is so often the case, provides the answer. We find it in Jeremiah 51:27–29. In this passage God stirs up four nations against Babylon. This reminds us that the bear with the three ribs was also stirred up—and probably against Babylon. Three of these nations were the small kingdoms of Ararat, Minni and Ashkenaz. They all lay to the north of Babylon and all were within the Median empire. The fourth nation was the Median empire itself. The bear with the three ribs between its teeth is a perfect picture of the Median empire and the three small subject kingdoms of Ararat, Minni and Ashkenaz. Note that Media is the principal nation stirred up against Babylon. In the eleventh verse of the same chapter we read, ‘The Lord has stirred up the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because his purpose concerning Babylon is to destroy it.’ In Isaiah 13:17 we read, ‘Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them (the Babylonians).’ We can see therefore that the prophets repeatedly proclaimed that God would stir up the Medes against Babylon. This is the meaning of the command to arise and devour much flesh. In Isaiah 21:2 Elam and Media are ordered to besiege Babylon, and in verse 9 the fall of Babylon is proclaimed. By the time Media got round to actually besieging Babylon, it had become the inferior partner of Persian-occupied Elam, Cyrus’s country of origin. (Elam is not mentioned in Je. 51:27, because although it was a vassal of Media, it formed an alliance with Babylon during the period of Media’s primacy.)

    Thus the general picture we have is that Media became stronger than Babylon on the death of Nebuchadnezzar and planned to overcome her, being stirred up to this by God. But before Media was able to carry her plans into effect, she was joined and surpassed by Persia.

    Daniel continues, ‘After this I looked, and lo, another, like a leopard, with four wings of a bird on its back; and the beast had four heads; and dominion was given to it.’ The swift and agile winged leopard contrasts vividly with the slow-moving, clumsy bear. Such was the contrast between the ponderous Median empire and the brilliant, swiftly-moving armies of Cyrus the Persian. The early kings that followed Cyrus were not as brilliant as he, but they certainly moved much faster and more purposefully than the Medes.

    Now the main characteristic of this third kingdom is, like that of the ‘bronze’ kingdom, one of widespread authority or ‘dominion’, which was the chief characteristic of Persia. This is shown by the four wings symbolizing the four winds, one for each of the ‘four corners of the earth’ (Ps. 104:3; Zc. 2:6). On a clay cylinder, Cyrus described himself as ‘king of the four corners of the earth’. On another he said, ‘Sin, the light of heaven … gave into my hands the four corners of the earth.’

    The beast had four heads. Now a head naturally suggests a king or some similar authority. In the eleventh chapter of Daniel we are specially told about four kings of Persia. The first is Cyrus and the fourth is Xerxes. This interpretation of the meaning of the four heads is eminently suitable, because Persia’s main period of expansion and aggression only covered the reigns of these first four kings—Cyrus, Cambyses, Darius and Xerxes (Pseudo-Smerdis being merely a short-lived impostor). Between them these first four kings created the Persian empire in all its vast extent and wealth; and it was after the reign of Xerxes that the decline of the empire began. Xerxes’ small gains in Greece were lost within a few months; but the empire reached the pinnacle of its power, wealth and size during his reign. Each of these four kings had a part to play in the creation of this enormous empire. It was not the work of one man, and the four-headed beast is a perfect picture of this.

    Note that the four heads have nothing to do with the four horns of Greece (8:8). The four heads appear to be a feature of the beast’s great dominion, whereas the four horns of Greece are connected with a loss of dominion (cf. 11:4). In 11:2–4 the number four is mentioned twice—once in connection with Persia, and once with Greece. The reference to Persia speaks of an initial phase of riches and power, whereas the reference to Greece speaks of a second phase of division and loss of territory and power. If the third kingdom is the Persian empire, it also follows that the unequal horns of the Persian ram (8:3–4, 20) do not signify the same thing as the unequal sides of the bear (7:5). There is a connection, however, since in both cases the inequality has something to do with the partnership between the Medes and Persians.

    We can see therefore that whatever resemblance the third beast might have to any other empire, it was fulfilled in every respect by the Persian empire. Let it again be pointed out that the only thing said about the beast’s rule was the fact that it was to have dominion—which corresponds to the statement that the bronze kingdom was to ‘rule over all the earth’. This was by far the most striking aspect of the Persian empire. It was several times the size of any previous empire. The Greek empire, on the other hand, was no larger than the Persian, and was probably in fact slightly smaller. Moreover, the Persians maintained their vast empire for over two hundred years, whereas the Greek empire was broken up and reduced in size only nine years after its foundation. Note, however, that both the third kingdom and the fourth kingdom are said to rule over or tread down ‘the whole earth’ (2:39; 7:23), and we are given the impression that the fourth kingdom crushes the first three kingdoms (2:40; 7:7, 23). We have already noted that Rome was defeated by the Parthians, and that Babylonia, Media and Persia all remained outside the Roman empire. Greece, on the other hand, rapidly crushed and took over the entire Persian empire (apart from some border areas), including Babylonia, Media and Persia. Thus the third and fourth kingdoms both rule over ‘the whole earth’, and regarding this, we note that Greece ruled over almost the same vast area (both in size and location) as Persia. Note also that the third kingdom rules over the whole earth, but the fourth kingdom devours it, and tramples it down and breaks it to pieces. The Persians ruled over their great empire for over two hundred years. Alexander smashed it rapidly and thoroughly, but he died soon afterwards, before he was able to organize it into as closely cohesive a system as that of the Persians. His successors were unable to maintain it, and it split up into a number of separate kingdoms and was reduced in size. This is all vividly portrayed in Daniel’s fourth kingdom, but I am not dealing with that kingdom here in any detail.

    I shall, however, summarize very briefly the ways in which Greece fulfilled the visions of the fourth kingdom and Rome did not—leaving out of consideration the idea that the Roman empire (in its ‘feet of iron and clay’ stage) is still in existence or is to be revived at the end of the present age. (1) The Greek armies of Alexander were invincible, whereas the Roman armies were not (2:40; 7:7, 19). (2) The Greek empire was divided in a very clear-cut way into an initial period of invincible strength and a second period of division and weakness, whereas Rome was not (2:41, 42). (3) Daniel 2:43 was fulfilled very exactly by the Greek attempt to fuse East and West through intermingling and inter-marriage, whereas Rome provided no such fulfilment. (4) The western nation of Greece was very ‘different’ from the oriental nations of Babylon, Media and Persia, whereas Rome was in many respects very similar to Greece (7:23). (5) In the context of the book of Daniel, Greece can be said to have ‘devoured the whole earth’ and to have crushed the first three kingdoms, whereas this cannot be said of Rome (2:40; 7:23). (6) The horns of the fourth beast found a very precise fulfilment in the kings of the Syrian part of the Greek empire from Seleucus Nicator to Antiochus Epiphanes (nearly all of whom are described in chapter 11), whereas Rome provided no such fulfilment…..(taken from the article by Robert J M Gurney)

    #891037
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Any interpretation that makes Media and Persia two kingdoms does not agree with the Book of Daniel.

    Rome was a significant kingdom. Far greater than you give it credit for it seems. It had two legs and lasted 1000 years more than most think too. While the East was taken over by the Ottomans, the West divided into roughly 10 nations.

    Media and Persia were clearly classed as a single kingdom in the Book Daniel placing Rome as the fourth.

    The description for the fourth really fits Rome.

    Further, can I ask you to give me your no1 point as to why Greece is the fourth metal?

    Let’s debate point by point if you can.

    #891038
    gadam123
    Participant

    Please show me at least one reference to Rome in whole of Daniel as a world kingdom as you repeatedly stick to your traditional view. I have shown you plenty to prove Greece as the fourth kingdom. The writer of Daniel never dreamed of Rome or future kingdoms like Ottoman….

    #891047
    Berean
    Participant

    The Book of Daniel states that the kingdom was given to the Medes and the Persians, thus according to that book, these two were one empire. 

     

    Hi Proclaimer

     

    I agree with that. The MEDO PERSIAN bear IS ONE KINGDOM

    And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

     

    “The bear was higher on one side than the other. This was Medo-Persia, a combination of two powers, with Persia being the stronger. This was shown by it being ‘raised up on one side’.

    The character of this power is well represented by a bear. The Medes and Persians were cruel and greedy, robbers and spoilers of the people.

    It had three ribs in its mouth, indicating the three areas that Medo-Persia conquered to come to rule the world; Babylon, Lydia and Egypt, which were especially ground down and oppressed by this power. It was a cruel and vicious nation and killed many people. That’s why the verse says “Arise and devour much flesh”.

    The Medo-Persian kingdom was visited by the wrath of God because in it His Law was trampled underfoot. The fear of God possessed no power among the people. Wickedness, blasphemy, and corruption were the prevailing influences in this kingdom; and the kingdoms that followed were even more base and corrupt. They deteriorated because they cast off God. Forgetting him, they sank lower and lower in the scale of moral worth, while they raised themselves higher and higher in pride and arrogance.”

    https://understanding-daniel-revelation.com/Dan/D-7.html

     

    #891053
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Please show me at least one reference to Rome in whole of Daniel as a world kingdom as you repeatedly stick to your traditional view.

    Are you silly? The Roman Empire didn’t exist yet. Lol. You might need to revise your history.

    Prophecy talks about the future. You test prophecy by seeing if it came to past.

    That is what I am doing. Looking at history to see if there is a fit.

    I say, yes it fits.

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