The Beast Revealed

Introduction

The following is a presentation of an eschatological view that teaches the Islamic Caliphate as the last head of the Beast mentioned in the Book of Revelation. The purpose of this teaching is to present this theory as a possible interpretation that fulfills the prophecies regarding the seventh Beast on Earth, (actually the seventh and eighth kings spoken of by John). This Beast is an Islamic Empire and is said to be ruled by the Islamic Mahdi whose description uncannily matches the Antichrist spoken of in the Bible.

Seven Headed BeastThere are of course a number of popular end-time theories. Let’s first take a quick look at two popular eschatological views.

The Futurist View says that Europe is the Beast, the Antichrist a Jew, and the Mark of the Beast as a computer chip or bar-code implanted into people’s right-hand or forehead for the purposes of buying and selling.

The Preterite View interprets prophecies of the Bible as events that have already happened throughout history. This view usually features The Roman Empire, emperors, the Vatican, and popes as having fulfilled many end-time prophecies. I personally remain open minded on all the views out there and do think there is some merit with many of them, but obviously all cannot be right in their entirety.

An important thing to note before me move on to this new eschatological view is where other views place Islam. Many consider Islam to be important enough to play a part in the End Times, but they do not know where if at all it is mentioned in the Bible. This teaching places the Islamic Caliphate as the last head of the Beast.

The Islamic Beast Eschatological View

The Islamic Beast eschatological view for want of a better title is conjecture just like all other views. But it seems to tick all the boxes and is worthy of our consideration because the evidence is very compelling. Without further ado, I present the evidence that supports the Islamic Caliphate as the last Kingdom that belongs to the Beast that rises from the Great Sea headed by the Antichrist.

The AntiChrist

The Bible clearly states that antichrists deny the Father and the Son in 1 John 2:22-23:

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn’t have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.

The Quran states clearly in Quran 2:116
Who says “Allah has begotten a Son”?

Quran 10.68
They say, “Allah hath begotten a son!” Glory be to Him! He is Self-Sufficient! His are all things in the heavens and on earth! No warrant have ye for this!

To understand how central to the Islamic faith it is to oppose the view that God has a son, these words are inscribed in the mosque at the Dome of the Rock where the Jews formerly worshipped YHWH:
“Far be it from God that he should have a son!”
Thus Islam is an antichrist religion according to scripture.

Who conquered the Roman Beast?

Nebuchadnezzar Statue

Nebuchadnezzar Statue

In scripture and history we see that each head on the Beast (kingdom) was succeeded by the next, i.e., Babylon was conquered by Persia was conquered by Greece was conquered by Rome. So it would be logical to think then that whoever conquered Rome could be the next Beast if we follow this pattern. However, many remain confused about who conquered Rome because they believe that the Roman Empire just fell into decline rather than being conquered by a succeeding empire. What many do not consider is that the Roman Empire had two legs, the western leg and eastern leg and this is even pictured in the statue of Daniel’s vision in Daniel 2:32-33:

“The head of that statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay.

While the western leg did indeed decline over time, the eastern leg continued to exist for another thousand years. Think of Constantinople rather than Rome. So while we may view Rome as the center of the Roman Empire, in the last period of this empire, the capital was moved to Constantinople in the east which is now modern day Istanbul in Turkey. This period of the Roman Empire is often referred to as the Byzantine Empire hence why there is some confusion as to how the Roman Empire was conquered. Rest assure however that the Byzantine Empire was still the Roman Empire. It is called by this name to identify this phase of the Roman Empire. Historians do not consider the Eastern Roman Empire as being a different empire from the Roman Empire when its capital was Rome. The east did not conquer the west, instead the same empire just moved its capital from Rome to Constantinople. Both the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire terminology are terms created after the end of the realm. Its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire. and themselves as Roman citizens.

The Ottoman Empire in 1795

The Ottoman Empire in 1795

So who conquered the Roman (Byzantine) Empire? It was the Ottoman Empire which was actually the first Islamic Caliphate. So the seventh empire spoken of by John appears to have already been fulfilled, it was the Ottoman Empire. Known as a Caliphate, it initially took control of the region and it said to have reached empire status when it conquered the Roman capital of Constantinople. It subsequently became the capital of the Ottoman Empire and was renamed to ‘Istanbul’.

In case you think that the Ottoman Empire was not significant enough to be compared with the previous empires that make up the Beast, then know this. It reigned for a significant period of time, from 1299 to around 1924. It could be argued that the Ottoman Empire was more of a state until 1453 when it conquered Constantinople the capital of the Roman Empire. And at the height of its power, it controlled much of southeast Europe, the Caucasus, Western Asia, and North Africa, even as far south as the Horn of Africa.

More proof for the identity of the seventh kingdom

Revelation 17:9
Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. “The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

While the popular view of the Beast is a revived Roman Empire, the above scripture (Revelation 17:9) shows us that the Roman Empire was only the sixth kingdom because that was the empire that reigned when John gave the prophecy, (five have fallen, one is). We can clearly see that there is still a seventh kingdom to come and also an eighth which is of the seventh (or seven). We also know that each kingdom/empire was succeeded by the next and that the Ottoman Empire conquered the Roman Empire and took over its capital.

Another significant feature of  The Ottoman Empire was its length of rule. It reigned for 500 years or so over a huge swathes of land around the Mediterranean Sea. Its capital was Istanbul in Turkey which was called Constantinople during the reign of the Eastern Roman Empire. These two points are significant because Istanbul resides in modern day Turkey today and scripture itself actually tells us that Turkey is the location for the seat of the Antichrist and the Beast. It also says that the Beast arises out of the ‘Great Sea’ which is the Mediterranean Sea, we will read about this later. First take a look at Revelation 13:2:

The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

We can see that the Dragon (who is Satan) gave his throne to the Beast. So where is Satan’s throne located? Take a look at Revelation 2:12:

“To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘I know your works, and where you dwell… where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to my name, and did not deny my faith even in the days in which Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.  

So where is Pergamum? It is in Turkey, the very same country where both the capitals of the Roman Empire and Ottoman empires were located. Is it a coincidence then that both the late Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire had their capitals in the very same country as the location of Satan’s throne?

Other popular views today regarding the seventh head/kingdom include: the British Empire and or the American Empire. But there is one simple verse in Daniel that rules out any other empire outside of the Mediterranean as being part of the Beast. The verse is Daniel 7:1-3

In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.

According to most commentary on the term ‘great sea’, it is identified as the Mediterranean Sea. In fact if you google “The Great Sea” Google also tells you that it is the Mediterranean Sea. If this is correct, then we can see that the Beast or the last four empires are indeed from the Middle East and specifically around the Mediterranean, which by reason of this excludes empires outside of this region. In fact all seven empires had extensive coastline in the Mediterranean Sea, even Egypt.

Picture this. Just outside of Israel is a Beast that is ready to devour the Jews and occupy the promised land. It is not too hard to see what is happening here. God carves out a country for himself as we read in scripture, in order to demonstrate his power and existence to the Gentiles. Satan’s opposition to Israel (the promised land) is surrounded by a Beast that attacks and persecutes not only that nation, but all her offspring too.

Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.

This is one of the signs of each head of the Beast. They persecuted the Jews and even captivated them. We cannot say the same about The British Empire or the American Empire.

The seven kingdoms

Let’s take a look at all seven gentile kingdoms that ruled the biblical world in succession:

  1. Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
  2. Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
  3. Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
  4. Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
  5. Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
  6. Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
  7. Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)

Note: Many of these empires existed at the same time, but the following empire defeated the previous empire in this list. The dates are approximate.

The Beast receives a deadly wound

Which of the heads then suffers a deadly wound?

“And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”

We also read that this beast is referred with the following description: “whose deadly wound was healed”.

Understanding this, we see the history of the Ottoman/Islamic Empire as fitting that description perfectly. It ceased to exist in the wake of WW1 meaning that the whole seven headed beast actually died because all the previous heads of the beast existed in succession. So the beast is officially gone today. Over a century later, we have seen the attempted rise of an Islamic Empire when ISIS declared its Caliphate. It failed as we all know,  but that is obviously not the end of the story. Many in the Islamic world long for an Islamic Caliphate.

ISIS caliphate projection

ISIS optimistic 5 year projection of new Caliphate

Revelation 17:8 The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.,

Next we read in Revelation 17:11:

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

This perfectly describes the rise of a future Islamic Caliphate. If the Ottoman (Islamic) Empire was the seventh and the eighth comes from the seventh, then the rise of an Islamic Caliphate in modern times could indeed be the fulfillment of these scriptures. This means the Beast that once was will be again.

We further read in scripture that this whole Beast will be destroyed by a stone that struck the statue. That stone is the Kingdom of God and it will spread to the whole Earth. There are also a number of signs in scripture that also describe the nature of the Islamic Caliphate that we see on the rise today. If true, this means that Islam will be conquered by Christ and his kingdom.

What about a revived Roman Empire instead of an Islamic Caliphate

But what about the view that the Roman Empire will be the empire that comes back to life. This is a popular view and one that has been taught for many years. This of course is still possible and fits in the realm of this Islamic Eschatological view because most immigration to Europe is coming from the Islamic world. Also notice that the eighth king doesn’t necessarily mean it belongs to the seventh kingdom, but it could be all of the seven. Let’s read that verse again:

Revelation 17:11:
The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

Does this mean seventh or all seven? I don’t know.

It could turn out that Europe is still part of this resurrected kingdom. In Daniel 2:43 we read that the feet are not just clay, but iron mixed with clay.
You saw the iron mixed with clay–the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with fired clay.

If the legs of iron were Rome and the two legs the East and West, then the last kingdom is a mixture of that iron but with clay.

Iron mixed with clay

Did you know that the word ‘mixed’ here is actually the word ‘arab‘ in Aramaic. Further, if the iron is the Roman Empire and the mixing of clay is infiltration or taking over by Arabs as we see with the Ottoman Empire’s takeover of the Roman Empire, then it could happen once again where Arabs/Muslims takeover parts of Europe and continue to hold the Middle East as they do today.

Perhaps those who predict a revived Roman Empire’ are correct. Accept it may not be ruled by Romans/Europeans, but Muslims who are immigrating and invading Europe in hordes. The Muslim population in Europe has a much higher birth-rate than the native Europeans who are in decline. It is immigration that bolsters Europe’s population and if Muslims in Europe become large enough, Europe or parts of it could become Islamic states in the future. If this were to happen, Israel could easily find itself surrounded by enemies much further afield too. Israel is of course already surrounded by enemies, but there may not be a sympathetic Europe to help protect them if the Islamic world were to invade Israel at some point. If Muslims could rule not only the Middle East but a future Europe too or large swathes of it, then that would only leave only the USA as a partner for Israel. While the USA could remain a friend of Israel in years to come, they may also reject Israel, or perhaps the USA itself could fall. The latter two would leave Israel on their own. Of course this is all speculation, but it is good to keep an open mind on this as there are many ways this could all play out.

Muammar Gaddafi once said:

We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe—without swords, without guns, without conquest—will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.
Speech (10 April 2006), quoted in New York Sun (6 September 2009)

The Mark of the Beast

Islam MarkWhile traditional eschatology teaches that a computer chip or bar-code of some kind will be placed on/in the hand or forehead in the last days, Muslims already wear on their forehead their mark which is, “In the name of Allah”. Remember that the mark of the beast is not just a number, but is also both a name and a mark/symbol. See Revelation 13:16-17

“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

Allah in Arabic

Allah in Arabic

So what exactly does it mean when scripture says ‘name’? And could the creed of Islam really be the mark, the number, and the name. Scripture uses the word ‘name’ often to identify a person as you would well imagine, but scripture also uses that word to describe the essence or character of a person or thing. Just as the Old Testament says of the coming messiah that his name shall be called ‘Emmanuel’ (God is with us) he was not actually called by that name, rather its meaning or creed was used to describe the coming messiah. Likewise the creed or name of Islam is written on the foreheads of these radical Muslims. Islamic Mark 666

The term “In the name of Allah” in Arabic resembles 666 (χξς) in Greek. It is possible that John actually saw in his vision the mark or name of Allah and it reminded him of the number 666 or he just wrote the symbol down as he saw it and translators wrote it down as 666 as it was the closest thing to the symbol

This view also could explain a puzzle. While most ancient texts say the number is 666, some say ‘616’ and nobody knows why. So what was it about this part of the text that caused some manuscripts to copy it as 616? What if John saw the Arabic for “In the name of Allah”? That could explain the confusion because he didn’t see a Hebrew number, instead he saw what looked like a number but was actually a name, and also a mark/symbol. “…except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

In the future, it is not hard to imagine an Islamic leader or prophet forcing people to wear the symbol or name of Allah on their foreheads and further barring anyone not identifying their allegiance this way as being barred from buying and selling in society thereby denying basic things like food, shelter, and medicine. People would either wear this mark or reject it and face hardship even starvation by rejecting it. A visible wearing of this mark would identify whose side you were on. (You also have to wonder how the Futurist eschatological view of a computer chip, RFID tag, or barcode as the mark could also be a name or a symbol?)

The abomination that causes desolation

What about the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel? Well look no further than a The Dome of the Rock. Remember that written on the wall of this mosque is “Far be it from God that he should have a son!”. The mosque supposedly sits in the holy place where the Jewish Temple stood and given that Islam denies the son of God, then it could be said that it is an antichrist temple in the place of the Jewish Temple. Further, the Hadith (a compilation of oral reports after the death of Muhammad compiled by different authors) say that the Mahdi (Islamic messiah to come) will eye Jerusalem and the Dome of the Rock as his home. Perhaps one day the Mahdi will sit in this temple as Islamic prophecy teaches. That could certainly qualify as the abomination in the holy place.

Jerusalem Temple Mount and Dome o the Rock

Jerusalem Temple Mount and Dome of the Rock Mosque

Who is beheading the Christians?

Revelation 20:4
…And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Can you imagine Italians, Romans, or the Vatican beheading Christians during the tribulation of the last days? To be fair the Vatican could have done this in the past. Today it is exclusively Muslims who are beheading Christians and others. Beheadings and even crucifixions are being performed today by radicals of Islam. Decapitations of course are a recurring theme during the 1,400 years of Islamic history. The earliest biographer of Muhammad recorded the decapitation of 700 men from the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina by order of Muhammad in 768 C.E. (‘Abd al-Malik Ibn Hisham, The Life of Muhammad.) So why does Islam have a history of beheadings? You don’t have to look any further than their own so-called holy book.

Quran 47:4
“When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.”

Quran 8:12
“I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them”

It seems that the Quran encourages the killing of non-Muslims and in particular Christians and Jews. This ties in with what the Bible says in John 16:2.

but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me. “But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Who in the world kills Jews and Christians and by doing so think they are doing service to God? Is this not a perfect description for Radical Muslims today?

Who worships the dragon?

If Islam is Antichrist, then can Allah be the true God? While some consider it a name which just means God (including Arabic Bibles), it has to be said that Satan is also a god according to scripture, i.e., the god of this age/world.

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

So just because someone is called God or a god, that is not proof that it is the one true God because there are many so-called gods or false gods. So what kind of God are we talking about whose religion fits the Bible’s description of antichrist? And what is it that we see over 1 billion people doing before this God every day. In fact Islam required that Allah is worshipped five times a day with varying bodily positions performed including laying prostrate. In Revelation 13:4 we read:

they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”

Here we see that men will worship the dragon. Scripture reveals the dragon as Satan in the same Book of Revelation. The word ‘satan’ means ‘adversary’. The word ‘worship’ has a number of associated meanings with one being ‘prostrate‘ which means ‘lying on the ground with one’s face downward’. A perfect description of those who worship Allah don’t you think? Also bear in mind that the heads of the Beast or kingdoms that have made up the Beast in history cover an area of the world that is predominantly Muslim. So the majority of the Biblical world today which is also where the Beast resides,  actually belongs to Islam. They deny outright that Jesus is the son of God which by biblical definition is how the Antichrist spirit reveals itself. They worship Allah five times a day and prostrate themselves before Allah. The question is begged, is Allah, Satan of the Bible? Well we know that the true God has a son, and Satan doesn’t have a son because he cannot procreate or begat. So if Allah doesn’t have a son, then he cannot be the true God because the true God has a son.

Who has declared war against the most terrible of nations?

Ezekiel 28:7-8
Therefore, behold, I will bring strangers upon you, the most ruthless of the nations and they will draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom and defile your splendor. ‘They will bring you down to the pit, and you will die the death of those who are slain in the heart of the seas.

Many think the above verse is talking about Islam and the Mahdi/ Antichrist. It says that he will declare war against the most ruthless/terrible of nations. Who are the most ruthless of nations today? The word ‘ruthless’ is synonymous with ‘terrible’. Translations usually use one or the other word. Terrible and ruthless in other verses is talking about being ruthless in battle. See Ezekiel 30:10-11 for example:

“I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. “He and his people with him, the most ruthless of the nations, will be brought in to destroy the land; and they will draw their swords against Egypt and fill the land with the slain.

So who are the most powerful military powers today? Well that would have to be the USA and the West in general. And who today has declared war on the USA and the West? I can only think of one entity, The Islamic World.  And notice that it is a coalition of nations or more than one nation that defeats this enemy. This could be describing the West. If this view is correct, then we could certainly be near the end of this age as there is already a war against terror or Radical Islam vs Israel and the West or the West vs Radical Islam. However, I hesitate to include this idea because it is not certain that this verse is talking about the time of the end or some other time after the prophecy was given. I continue to investigate this opinion as it might be an important clue.

The Mahdi as the Antichrist

In the Islamic world, The Hadith is a compilation of oral reports after the death of Muhammad compiled by different authors over the centuries. They contain Islamic teachings and prophecies. The Mahdi prophesied in the Hadith is a person  whom Muslims await in a similar fashion as Christians awaiting the second coming of Christ. When you compare the descriptions and prophecies of the Mahdi with what is written in the Bible about the Antichrist, they seem to be talking about the same person or at least match the descriptions and prophecies of the Bible. Are they the same person?

  • Both are military leaders

Both the Mahdi and the Antichrist are described as a powerful political military leaders.

  • Both are stout

Both the Mahdi and Antichrist are described as being stout with unusual eyes. See Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. The Hadith says: Mahdi translates to ‘guided one’. His appearance will be the first sign of the third period. The Mahdi will be looked upon to kill Al-Dajjal and prepare for the reign of Jesus who will rule for a time after. The physical features of Mahdi are described—he will be of Arab complexion and average height with a large belly, large eyes and a sharp nose. He will have a mole on his cheek, the sign of the prophet on his shoulder. He will rule for seven years. His name will be announced from the sky. He will bring the Ark of the Covenant to light. His banner will be black and unstitched, with a halo. He will be helped by angels and others that will prepare the way for him.
Notice that his banner will be black. This is what we see when ISIS overtakes a new territory. They raise black banners because they are trying to fulfill this Islamic prophecy.

  • Both sign seven year treaties

In the Hadith quoted above, you can see that the Mahdi will rule for seven years. Further, he will sign a seven year peace treaty Rasulullah [Muhammad] said: “There will be four peace agreements between you and the Romans [Christians]. The fourth agreement will be mediated through a person who will be from the progeny of Hadrat Haroon [Honorable Aaron – Moses’ brother] and will be upheld for seven years. (Tabarani, as related by Hadrat Abu Umamah, as quoted by Zubair Ali, p. 43 and Abduallah, p. 55) In Daniel 9:27 we read this: He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. In the Islamic world, it is acceptable to break a treaty, if you are advancing the cause of Islam. If the Dome of the Rock is the home of the Mahdi, (or even a rebuilt Jewish temple on this site) then him sitting in this temple could be the sign of the broken peace treaty which is the ‘abomination that causes desolation’ as mentioned by Daniel.

  • Both change laws and times

Makkah Clock Royal Tower

Makkah Clock Royal Tower

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Compare Daniel 7:25 with the obviously fact that Islam seeks to impose Sharia Law and the halal mark and you have a similar description. Further, there is also an increasing voice in Islam to change Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) to Mecca time. The world’s largest clock was unveiled in 2010 in Saudi Arabia. Its first official duty is marking time during Ramadan. The clock looks very similar to Big Ben (which keeps GMT) except it is six times taller making it the third tallest building in the world. The sheer size of this clock is meant to dwarf Big Ben in a symbolic move to make Islamic Time more prominent than Greenwich Mean Time (GMT).  Some have argued that GMT is the remnant of a colonial heritage, and it is time to turn over a new page. So the stage is already set for the Mahdi to move away from colonial laws and time to Islamic Sharia Law and Islamic Time.

  • Both target Christians, Jews, Israel, and Jerusalem

Radical Islam today targets all who do not accept Sharia Law, but especially persecutes Christians and Jews. It is not hard to accept that the Mahdi would take this to a new level such as what we read about the Antichrist in the Bible. Further, one of the main missions for Radical Islam is to wipe Israel off the map. This is why Hamas and other Palestinian authorities often refuse to agree to any deal to live alongside Israel or acknowledge her existence. Matthew 24:16-21:

then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Daniel 7:25:

“He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.”

  • Both honor a god of force/strongholds/war

It is clear that Radical Islam uses force or war to advance Sharia Law. It is justified in the Quran as a way to get people to worship Allah and obey Sharia Law. It would be assumed then that a future Mahdi would follow suit or take this to a new level. We read in the Quran the following: Quran 2:244 “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.” Quran 4:74 “Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.” Also, in Quran 4:76 “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…” In the Bible, we read in Daniel 11:38-39 But instead he will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom his fathers did not know; he will honor him with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures. “He will take action against the strongest of fortresses with the help of a foreign god; he will give great honor to those who acknowledge him and will cause them to rule over the many, and will parcel out land for a price. It also says that the will not regard the God of his fathers. This could mean he is an offspring of Abraham, but an Ishmaelite, thus the God that he does regard could be Allah, not YHWH who is the God of Abraham.

This same verse in the KJV and Webster’s Bible Translation says God of forces, while the Young’s Literal Translation says god of strongholds. I like the latter as it describes Satan’s works that Jesus came to destroy. We are told a number of times that we can bring down the enemy’s strongholds and certainly Islam is a stronghold. Further, Paul uses the word ‘fortresses/strongholds’ in 2 Corinthians 10:3-4, which he uses metaphorically to describe the spiritual battle before us: , NASB – Though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses or NIV – For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.

  • Both do not honor the desire of woman

We all know about women’s rights in Islam. In Daniel 11:37 this trait is identified with the Antichrist: Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women, … This verse seems to say that the Antichrist will not regard the desire of woman. While it is hard to know what that really means, taking it at face value seems to be the most accepted meaning. If that meaning is true, then it fits with the religion of Islam which has little regard for women in general.

The False prophet

We can see the connection between the Biblical Antichrist and the coming Islamic Mahdi, but scripture also mentions the false prophet. The Qur’an itself also prophesies the coming of the Islamic Jesus who is called “Isa Ibn Maryam”. Like the Bible, the Qu’ran says that he will return, but like all prophets in Islam, their Jesus is considered a Muslim.

According to the Hadith, the Islamic Jesus will descend in the midst of wars fought by the Mahdi, He will fight against the Dajjal who is called the Antichrist or False messiah according to Islam. The Islamic Jesus will descend east of Damascus dressed in yellow robes. He will join the Mahdi and help fight against the Dajjal. Then the Islamic Jesus will slay the Antichrist, and at this point the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) will believe in him and will become part of Islam.

If the Antichrist of the Bible is the Madhi of Islam, then it seems logical at least that the False Prophet of the Bible is the Islamic Jesus. The idea is that if the Jews and Christians can be convinced that their Jesus is the true messiah, then they will convert to Islam. Now lets read about the False Prophet in Revelation 13:11-12

Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed

Notice that this second beast who is the False Prophet is likened unto a lamb. This is important because Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. So the false prophet is one who tries to mimic Jesus Christ, except he has two horns and speaks like a dragon. Further we know that the dragon is Satan, so the Lamb speaks like Satan. Satan means adversary, so this lamb will be adverse to the true Lamb of God.

The Bible and the Quran

It seems that  after John wrote the Book of Revelation, Satan decided to counter the prophecies by raising up a false prophet who started a religion that was the counter of what we read in the Bible. It didn’t help Christianity that it had fallen into false doctrine and idol worship around this time. It was perhaps this falling away that helped Islam take hold. With consequent centuries, the Islamic influence grew and even ruled as an empire after it conquered the Roman Empire with the conquering of Constantinople which was considered Christian. From there, it was a matter of converting all the people of the Ottoman empire to Islam. Eventually the area become predominantly Muslim and even the original seven churches in Revelation became an area dominated by Islam. This was achieved by converting people and killing those who refused Islam.

The role of the Trinity

In Islam’s early days it may have appealed to people who were sick of idol and saint worship as well as the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Trinity. The Quran gives a clue in 004:171 Rashad:

O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, “Trinity.” You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.

It seems that the Doctrine of the Trinity was one of the Christian doctrines that they opposed and even though this doesn’t make the doctrine wrong, the doctrine is in the least, completely unnecessary and has caused much harm and division for Christians.

Even today, Christians preach the Trinity as a foundational doctrine, yet there is nothing in the Bible that says that they should preach the Trinity to anyone. Even many teachers whose eschatology is similar to this one still preach the Trinity. This is sad because it helps alienate Muslims and Jews from the gospel. It is an unnecessary stumbling block. Instead we should be preaching that Jesus is the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord. Look at Peter’s answer as to who Jesus was and look at the response from Jesus.

Matthew 16:13-20
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Simply put, this is the truth that we should be preaching with regards to who Jesus is because this is what the Father has revealed about his identity. To truly convert Muslims or religious Jews to Jesus Christ, they need only to believe who Jesus is besides required repentance etc. Muslims already accept that Jesus is the messiah, but reject that he is the son of God. In my experience it is not as hard as you think for Muslims to be converted and accept Jesus as the son of God and as the one whom God made both Lord and Messiah, (see Acts 2:36). However, they rarely accept the Trinity Doctrine and for good reason. It is not part of the gospel, it is not part of the elementary teachings of the faith, instead it was a doctrine that came centuries after the last book in the Bible was written. It may even have been this doctrine that helped Islam gain a foothold in this part of the world in the first place. Sadly it is still preached as being a requirement by many Christians today. If we want to convert Muslims and Jews with the gospel, then do not put unnecessary stumbling blocks in their way. To learn more about the Trinity Doctrine feel free to read this page.

That wraps up this presentation of this eschatological view and while it is quite different to more traditional views, it does explain a lot of prophecies well, where some of these other views struggle. However, it is important to remember that we would do well to consider new information and ideas that might come along in the future that could change everything. The last thing we should do as Believers in Christ is believe this or any other eschatological view wholeheartedly leaving us free to accept a future RFID chip in our bodies for example because our eschatological view does not accept a computer chip as the Mark of the Beast. Simply put, be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Further those who hold stubbornly to certain views can cause divisions over arguments regarding differing views. Remember, we should make every effort to be at peace with our brothers.

Facts to consider

To sum up this eschatological view here are some facts to consider.

  1. The antichrist spirit exhibits a number of traits, one being that they deny the Father and Son.
  2. Because Islam teaches that God has no son, they clearly and openly deny that God is a Father and that he has a son.
  3. Islamic Caliphates are not only political entities, but they are also religious with their own laws and times.
  4. The Ottoman Empire was the next empire after the Roman Empire. It conquered the Roman Empire.
  5. We are told that their will be an eighth kingdom which is of the seventh or seven. See Revelation 17:11.
  6. Rome was clearly the sixth kingdom. It was the one that was in existence, when John gave the prophecy. See Revelation 17:9-10
  7. Historians do not consider the Eastern Roman Empire as a different empire from the western empire. The east did not conquer the west. The capital moved from Rome to Constantinople. That period of the kingdom is called the Byzantine period.
  8. Both the Eastern Roman Empire and Byzantine Empire terminology are historiographical terms created after the end of the realm. Its citizens continued to refer to their empire as the Roman Empire.
  9. Daniel sees the Beast rise out from the Great Sea. That is the name for the Mediterranean Sea in scripture, thus the kingdoms of the Beast are located around that sea.
  10. Islam gained ground partly because Christianity had fallen into idol & saint worship as well as false teachings.
  11. The Bible and Quran seem to teach the opposite of each other. It seems that one is the adversary of the other.
  12. The Book of Revelation tells us that Satan’s throne was in Turkey, the very country that the Ottoman Empire had its seat of government. It was also the seat of the Roman Empire during the Byzantine period.

Videos

Here are some videos containing teachings and evidence for this end-time eschatology. I do not necessarily support everything here or support the organisations behind the videos. Just food for thought in the context of this teaching.

The Islamic Beast

Soft Islamic Invasion of Europe

The Color of Islam


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 461 through 480 (of 649 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #868793
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Now let’s stop right there , who is the one that carries the women “Bablonian”the great harlot ?,  is it not the “beast” who is Satan,   

    What scripture are you using to say that the Beast is Satan?

    #868796
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

     

    What you say IS COMPLETELY UNJUST AND DON’T STAND UP
    WHAT WOULD IT USE FOR US TO KNOW THESE DETAILED THINGS IN REVELATION 17 IF THEY ARE TO HAPPEN IN MORE THAN A THOUSAND …..

    THESE THINGS DESCRIBED IN REVELATION 17
    CONCERNING THE SERVANTS OF GOD FROM THE TIME OF JOHN UNTIL CHRIST’S RETURN … THE THOUSAND YEARS WILL FOLLOW
    … AND THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE JUDGMENT THEN THE NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH.

    REVIEW THE BOOK OF REVELATION INTRODUCTION:

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things WHICH MUCH SHORTLY COME TO PASS; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
    [2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

    #868815
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Gene, where is it written that the Beast is Satan?

    #868826
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer……Who is the one who was put in the bottomless pit?  Is it  Satan, the devil.

    Rev 17:7…..”and the angel said unto me, wherefore did you marvel, I will tell you the mystery of the women,  (Babylon the Great),  and the  “beast” the carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns”.  

    Verse 8…… “the beast that you saw was, and is not (at the time of this prophesy taking place) and shall asend out of the bottomless pit.  and go into Perdition”

    Now Proclaimer,   this shows it was SATAN .

    Rev 20: 1-2……”and I saw an angel come down from heaven having the Key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand: and he laid hold on the dragon , that old serpent, which is “the devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 

    REV 20: 3……and cast him into the “bottomless pit” , and shut him up, and  set a seal upon him, that he should decieve the nations no more, till the “thousand years” should be fulfilled: and after the he “must be lossed a little season” .   (3 1/2 years) . 

    Proclaimer  that shows to me the beast is Satan the Devil,  and he is the on carrying all the Bablonian kingdoms even the “FIFTH” , the one we are in right now. 

    At the start of the millennial reign of Jesus and the Saint’s,  Satan the devil will be put into the bottomless pit for a thousand years then at the end released for a short time 3 1/2 years then go into Perdition.

    Proclaimer  you have to follow the time-line I gave you and it all falls into place, everything ties into it.  John was transported in time  to the end of the millennial reign of Jesus and the Saint’s,  once you do that everything falls into place . 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

     

    #868830
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    READ WELL

     

    And the BEAST which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the DRAGON gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

    [3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the BEAST

    [4] And they worshipped the DRAGON which gave power unto the BEAST : and they worshipped the BEAST , saying, Who is like unto the BEAST ? who is able to make war with him?

     

    ISN’T THE DRAGON A THING?
    AND ANOTHER BEAST?

    #868869
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……..Rev 20: 2…..”And he laid hold on the “dragon”, that old serpent, which “IS”, the Devil, and “Satan”, and bound him a thousand years”. 

    BEREAN,  we have all been lied to by false prophets over many years,  most everything,  all this stuff we are hearing takes place at the END of  the millennial reign of Jesus and the Saint’s.  Not Before Jesus returns, but just before God the Fathers returns, that’s  when Armageddon takes place. 

    you can not understand Revelations without understanding that John was teanspoeted in time to the End of the millennial reign,   that’s the only way you can get the,  time-line right brother, all the pieces will fit together if you do that. 

    THE RETURN OF JESUS,  will be a “Celestial”  event,  and catch the whole world off guard or, by suprise,  just as he said it would.  There will be a “perplexity” of Nations, the waves will “roar” and people will die of  heart atacks,  because of the fear of that thing “comming on the earth”, and the sun and the moon will be “darkened”  and the “powers of heaven”   (the gravitional pulls that lock  the planets in orbit)  will be  “Shaken”  , causing the earth to wobble in orbit, and cause giant tussmies,  and many will die,  as a result,  espically those who live along coastal areas, where most live. 

    It will be like as in the days of Noah, this whole  world will be caught off guard, and it will happen suddenly like lighting flashes from the east and shines to the west “a sudden event”,    exactly as Jesus said it would be.

    Don’t be decieved Berean,  Listening to  what these , fales prophets”, are telling you will only cause you to be caught off guard , because they decieve people into thinking all these other things have to first happen, don’t believe them ,  time is short, his hand is at the door,   my God our Father  help us to all be ready.

    Peaceand love to you and yours. ……….gene

    #868875
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Gene is trying to divert from the fact that he said the Beast is Satan. Funny watching him dodge that with throwing out other things in the hope he diverts the question. A common tactic of the guilty. The thing is, this shows us his heart.

    It seems he can never admit when he is wrong. And that is usually due to a pride problem. And we know where pride leads.

    #871877
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    There’s Something STRANGE About ISLAM

    Derek Gilbert joins Donna and Josh to talk about his new book “Bad Moon Rising”

    #871888
    gadam123
    Participant

    Gene is trying to divert from the fact that he said the Beast is Satan. Funny watching him dodge that with throwing out other things in the hope he diverts the question. A common tactic of the guilty. The thing is, this shows us his heart.

    It seems he can never admit when he is wrong. And that is usually due to a pride problem. And we know where pride leads.

    Hope brother Gene has seen this post by Proclaimer.

    #873248
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

    The Beast of Revelation represents seven empires that ruled in succession in the area around the Great Sea, the Mediterranean. These seven empires are a historical fact that fits perfectly with the Beast of Revelation and what it means. From our view in history, we can see that the seven empires were:

    Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
    Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
    Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
    Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
    Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
    Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
    Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)

    Notice that this Beast is no more today in 2021. The reign of empires ended at the conclusion of WWI when the Ottoman army fought alongside Germany and Austria-Hungary. They were defeated in October 1918. If the Ottoman Empire was the last empire or the seventh head of the beast, then it partially fits with the following verse.

    “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”

    For it to fully fit though, an eighth king or kingdom which comes from the seventh would need to arise in the future. That could be another Islamic Caliphate especially considering the seventh in this view was an Islamic caliphate. Further, given the spread of Islam which dominates this part of the world (around the Great Sea) and which has recently infiltrated Western Europe, it seems that an Islamic Caliphate would be the most likely empire to rise from this region. Forget America, China, India, Australia, etc. These are not located around the Great Sea. These empires and countries are not part of the Beast with seven heads and 10 horns.

    Revelation 17:8
    The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.,

    Revelation 17:11:
    The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

    Daniel 7:1-3
    In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream. Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.

    Revelation 13:1
    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.”

    It is also possible that the eighth king / kingdom to come could be from the seven heads (not seventh head). This would mean it is comprised of all empires that came out of the Great Sea previously. Now look at the next verse.

    You saw the iron mixed with clay–the peoples will mix with one another but will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with fired clay.

    Regarding the iron mixed with clay, it is worth noting that the word for ‘clay’ in Aramaic is ‘arab’. After the two legs of iron in the statue (Rome) , we see the toes are mixed with iron and clay. In other words it appears that two peoples will live side by side but their seed will not mingle. And indeed we see this with the break up of the Roman Empire and the Ottoman invasions. The invaders (Arabs) mixed with the iron (Romans) but never became one people.

    Of the seven empires in the Book of Revelation, Daniel addressed four and perhaps a fifth with the mixture of iron and clay. His revelation was focussed around his time however and not as wide in scope as the Book of Revelation.

    #873318
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Why the seven mountains are seven kingdoms

    In the Book of Revelation we read about a beast comprising of seven heads rising out of the sea. Many are the interpretations of what the heads are and what this Beast is exactly. But we are told in the Book of Revelation that the seven heads are seven mountains and also seven kings. But how do we know that it is talking about seven kingdoms or empires rather than seven kings from a single empire?

    Mountains throughout the Old Testament of uses a mountain to signify a kingdom or empire. In Jeremiah. 51:25 we see that Babylon is called a mountain.

    “I am against you, you destroying mountain…”

    And in Ezekiel 35:2, we read:

    The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir, and prophesy against it,  and say to it, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against you, Mount Seir, and I will stretch out my hand against you, land I will make you a desolation and a waste. I will lay your cities waste, and you shall become a desolation, and you shall know that I am the Lord. 

    Even in Daniel 2:35 we read about a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. Which has been interpreted to mean the Kingdom of God.

    But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

    And for further clarification, the Kingdom of Judah is often referred to as Mount Zion.

    So there you have it. The seven mountains in Revelation 13 and 17 are seven kingdoms.

    Now if you have eyes to see and ears to hear, read on to learn what kingdoms are being referenced.

    First thing to note is the Beast rises out of the Great Sea. That sea is the Mediterranean. In other words, the empires are specific to those located in the Middle East and Southern Europe. So what does history show us? Indeed there were seven successive empires that ruled this part of the world. These empire are as follows:

    1. Egypt – 3100 to 677 BC (Genesis 12:10)
    2. Assyria – 677 to 626 BC (Genesis 2:14)
    3. Babylon – 626 – 539 BC (Daniel 1:1)
    4. Medo-Persia – 539 – 449 BC (Daniel 5:28)
    5. Greecia – 449 – 146 BC (Daniel 10:20)
    6. Rome – 146 BC-476 AD eastern leg / 1453 AD western leg or Byzantium (Daniel 9:26 & Romans 1-7)
    7. Ottoman – 1453 – 1924 AD (Future empire when Revelation was written, but historical empire today)

    Okay, so history attests to seven empires. But what about today? There is no empire in this part of the world anymore. Does that means the Beast is dead? Yes, actually it does mean that. Scripture attests to this. In Revelation 13:3 we read:

    “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.”

    And in Revelation 17:8 we read:

    The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction.,

    Next we read in Revelation 17:11:

    The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

    Since the end of WWI, all seven kingdoms have passed, but in the year 2021, the eighth kingdom is still to come.

    #890779
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    4 Kingdoms but 5 materials, clay, iron, bronze, silver, and gold

    Could this be because The Ottoman Empire (Clay) took over the capital city of Rome. So Rome is the two legs of iron, East and West and the feet of iron and clay is a reference to the Ottomans taking over the capital of the empire. So a mix of Roman and Ottoman citizens that cleave not together as one just as iron doesn’t mix with clay.

    Daniel 2:35-45 ERV

    Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold broke to pieces all at the same time. And all the pieces became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summertime. The wind blew them away, and there was nothing left. No one could tell that a statue had ever been there. Then the rock that hit the statue became a very large mountain and filled up the whole earth. “That was your dream. Now we will tell the king what it means. King, you are the most important king. The God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory. He has given you control, and you rule over people and the wild animals and the birds. Wherever they live, God has made you ruler over them all. King Nebuchadnezzar, you are that head of gold on the statue. “Another kingdom will come after you, but it will not be as great as your kingdom. Next, a third kingdom will rule over the earth—that is the bronze part. Then there will be a fourth kingdom. That kingdom will be strong like iron. Just as iron breaks things and smashes them to pieces, that fourth kingdom will break all the other kingdoms and smash them to pieces. “You saw that the feet and toes of the statue were partly clay and partly iron. That means the fourth kingdom will be a divided kingdom. It will have some of the strength of iron in it just as you saw the iron mixed with clay. The toes of the statue were partly iron and partly clay. So the fourth kingdom will be partly strong like iron and partly weak like clay. You saw the iron mixed with clay, but iron and clay don’t completely mix together. In the same way the people of the fourth kingdom will be a mixture. They will not be united as one people. “During the time of the kings of the fourth kingdom, the God of heaven will set up another kingdom that will continue forever. It will never be destroyed. And it will be the kind of kingdom that cannot be passed on to another group of people. This kingdom will crush all the other kingdoms. It will bring them to an end, but that kingdom itself will continue forever. “King Nebuchadnezzar, you saw a rock cut from a mountain, but no one cut that rock. The rock broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold to pieces. In this way God showed you what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and you can trust that this is what it means.”

    #890788
    Berean
    Participant

    DANIEL 2

    1 BABYLON

    2 MEDO-PERSIA

    3 GRECIA

    4 ROME

    (IRON AND CLAY= ROME Divided) 👇

    ….the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

    👇

    Daniel 7

    4 BEASTS=  4 metals of the statue 

    The FOURTH BEAST= IRON AND IRON AND CLAY of thé statue

    Do you agree with that already?

    I’ll try to take time to see more later.

    Have a good day

    #890802
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Do you agree with that already?

    Well I am not fully subscribed to any end time teaching because I remain open minded. But I think the 4 metals representing those kingdoms seems like a fair interpretation.

    The FOURTH BEAST= IRON AND IRON AND CLAY of thé statue

    There are two facets here.

    1. Two legs (could be east and west which we see in the history of the Roman Empire).
    2. Iron and clay in the feet near the bottom Could represent the future from when the vision was given as it is the closest to the rock that strikes the statue.

    It could mean that the kingdom of iron had two parts to it, and then later on, they mixed with another people but cannot fully mix as iron doesn’t cleave with clay.

    One interpretation could be that the Roman Empire moved its capital to the east. After another 1000 or so years the empire still remained but was invaded and taken over by Arabs (mixed / arab). Constantinople became Istanbul. Church buildings were converted into mosques etc. And in Revelation, this is the seventh empire and then the Beast dies for a time, only to be revived for a short period of time just before the end.

    #890805
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…….We are living in the days of the Iron and clay,   Iron representing military powers,  clay represents that these present kingdoms do not operate as one , but are diverse one from  the other , but they all have the power of iron in then (great military strength)  very powerful weapons of war.  That is “exactly” the condition of e of the world today.
    The world ring kingdoms are not any part of the ROMAN EMPIRE,  that was destroyed hundreds of years ago.

    Babylon represents the way these Kingdom “economically rule ”  , through a system of buy and sell for gain, enslaving men,  usury of mankind, slavery of  other for self gain.   That is what the Babylon system of rule is and it has existed in every kingdom from the time Babylon.

    Peace and love to you and yours………gene

    #890806
    Ed J
    Participant

    Yes, Proclaimer,

    The Ottoman Empire was the seventh head,
    and Muhammadin islam is the eighth (and of the seventh)

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    Response to your Sep 3 post

    #890813
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Hi Ed J.

    Or could it be another Islamic political union in the last days, rather than organised Islam as a religion?

    #890814
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer

    If you are ok with that

    👇

    the FOURTH beast (Daniel 7) = IRON LEGS and IRON FEET + CLAY (Dan. 2)

    Do you agree that the previous 3 beasts of Daniel 7 correspond to the metals of Dan 2 (brass, silver, gold)

    GOLD. /LION
    SILVER / BEAR
    BRASS / LEOPARD 

    God bless

    #890815
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To all……..unless you understand that John was transported Im time to the the end of the Sixth world ruling kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s,  in fact right a the end of it, when Satan will be released from the bottomless pit where he was cast at the beginning of the Thousand rule of Jesus and the Saint’s  you can never understand    Rev 17 nor Dan 2 either .

    There is no single “world” ruling kingdom that exist today. The world is ruled by many different kingdoms,  but their Economical system work the same as the ancient Babylon  system worked.  We are “NOW” in the Fifth  world ruling Babylon SYSTEM OF RULE , THE LEGS OF IRON AND CLAY,  the next to come is the Sixth World ruling kingdom of Jesus Christ and the Resurrected Saint’s . Then at the end of that comes the Seventh,  the  deadly wound inflicted by Jesus and the Saint’s at his return, will be healed and the Babylonian type of economic rule will once again be on this earth as it was before , for a short time,  then comes God the Father,  and causes  Satan  to destroy  the Seventh Babylon  by ten kings he uses to destroy the Seventh Babylonian kingdom. Then the  Eight kingdom of Satan will be destroyed at the great battle of Armageddon, by God the Father, And Satan is cast into he lake of fire.

    If you don’t understand that you can be caught off guard,  at the return of Jesus Christ.

    peace and love to you all………gene

    #890816
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    Prove everything you say in the Bible, verse after verse and that it makes sense with God’s plan for us.

     

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