1 Peter 2: 6-8

1 Peter 2
6 For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,”
8 and,“A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”

The argument made here is that this text read with Isaiah 8:12-15 shows that Jesus is God. So let’s look at that scripture:

Isaiah 8:12-15
11 For Jehovah spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me not to walk in the way of this people, saying,
12 Say ye not, A conspiracy, concerning all whereof this people shall say, A conspiracy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be in dread thereof .
13 Jehovah of hosts, him shall ye sanctify; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many shall stumble thereon, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Okay so the argument is made that Jesus is called a stone and so is God.

The first obvious thing to point out is that when God decides to become something such as a rock of offense, he personally doesn’t turn up as that rock, but sends a messenger. We see in other scriptures that God is light, yet he sends Jesus into the world and Jesus proclaims that “he is the light of the world”. When Jesus is about to leave this world he passes on this mantle to us, (the Church) when he proclaimed, “You are the light of the world” in Matthew 5:14.

“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house.…

So when God sent light into this dark world, he sent a messenger. If we conclude that God is light and Jesus is the light means that Jesus is God, then you also have to believe that we (the Church) are God. Thus if God refers to himself as a stone and sends Jesus who is identified as the stone, then that is not a valid proof that the verse means that Jesusis God.

Further, there is another main point that needs to be understood here. When you look at Isaiah 8:12-15, it becomes very clear that YHWH is actually talking about another as the rock and not himself. Read closely.

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”

Notice the words, “I lay a stone”. I guess that Trinitarians just read it as “I am this stone”. But it does not say that or refer to that.
Now notice the words “a chosen and precious cornerstone”. If God is the stone, then ask yourself who is the one who CHOSE the stone?

Again this so-called Trinity proof verse is easily exposed when you decide to read the text carefully and without bias. Obviously, our brother Peter doesn’t support the view that Jesus is God when he talks about Jesus being the stone that causes people to stumble.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

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  • #781051
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    LU…….please post a single scripture that says there are spirit “BODIES” of any kind, IF you cant find it, then you are speculating with no scripture back up. The word “spritual” body, does not mean “spirit body ” either, many presume it is saying that, when in fact it is not.

    peace and love to you and yours………………gene

    #781053
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Kerwin…….The word God has only one meaning, but that meaning can apply to lots of things. The original word for GOD, WAS WRITTEN IN A Hebrew “PICTORAL” LANGUAGE similar to the EGYPTIAN hyroglific language, the ANCIENT HEBREW symbolic picture for GOD, was the head of an OX (representing power) with a Sheppards staff leaning toward it, (representing what they leaned toward for support) so the word God simply means the “power” which people “trust”, or lean on for support, that can apply to any thing.

    That description can fit any thing in existence, but to us true believers, we as Jesus, only believe in “ONE” and only ONE “TRUE” GOD, all others are fake GOD’S, to us that is. IMO.

    peave and love to you and yours. ………………gene

    #781059
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    It is God who chooses to call others gods and if he meant fake gods then he would either say it or imply it. I am not one to dispute with him. There is one God that is worthy of worship. He is the only one of his kind even though others may be called God they not of his kind though they may pretend to be.

    All I know is that God uses the word god to label certain people as either being like him in true holiness and righteousness or being credited as such. He also calls his angels gods though that may be because they have more power than humanity as the word god is used in that sense as well. The word god when in reference to God himself means all that is Yawheh.

    From my observations, some here believe God created others of his kind. They believe these others are lesser or equal members of the same kind as Jehovah is though the Christology might differ in the details.

    #781071
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    Do you believe that the angels have some type of body? If so, what type?

    #781072
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @kerwin

    Of all those that have possibly been called God/god in scripture, how many of them have dominion over all creation for ever and ever? Can you identify them?

    #781074
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @kerwin


    @GeneBalthrop

    Is this your testimony
    1 Corinthians 15:47

    The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    #781077
    kerwin
    Participant

    LU,

    Scripture shows us that angels both eat and can be touched so they have a physical body. They appear like human beings so it appears indistinguishable from the human body. It also seems to show us physically their body feels no different from a human beings. We are not told what there body is composed of so all we can do is speculate.

    I believe that we are made in their likeness and in God’s image.

    #781078
    kerwin
    Participant

    LU,

    1 Corinthians 15:47

    The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    Manuscripts disagree on the words of that verse.

    1 Corinthians 15:47New English Translation (NET Bible)

    47 The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven.

    I know what Paul is speaking of as the physical is created first and then the spiritual. Adam was not created in the image of God and then created from the earth. He was first created from the earth and then created in the image of God just as Scripture testifies.

    Jesus was made a man with both a earthly and a heavenly side as all men are given for do you not believe that man is made from both the earth and from the very breath of God. I certainly do.

    #781079
    kerwin
    Participant

    LU,

    Of all those that have possibly been called God/god in scripture, how many of them have dominion over all creation for ever and ever? Can you identify them?

    You question is based on an erroneous assumption. A human being that was made king of all things in heaven and on earth is still not the one true God. He would be called a god because of his power since a king whose territory is vastly smaller in extent is called a god. According to Scripture a time will come when Jesus gives that all up so that God is all in all.

    #781082
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @kerwin
    So is that a no…this verse, as translated is not your confession?

    The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    #781083
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @kerwin
    you said:

    We are not told what there body is composed of so all we can do is speculate.

    Is it reasonable to assume that their bodies are significantly different than humans although similar in some ways?

    #781084
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @kerwin

    Do you believe this:

    1 Tim 3:16
    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    #781087
    kerwin
    Participant

    LU,

    1 Tim 3:16
    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    This is another controversial passage that varies between manuscripts.

    1 Timothy 3:16New English Translation (NET Bible)

    16 And we all agree, our religion contains amazing revelation:

    He was revealed in the flesh,
    vindicated by the Spirit,
    seen by angels,
    proclaimed among Gentiles,
    believed on in the world,
    taken up in glory.

    Scripture teaches me that God lives in believers through his Spirit and Jesus stated the Father is in him so it follows that God also lives in him by the Spirit. God is righteous and does not need to be either justified or vindicated by the Spirit. Jesus was declared righteous by the Spirit for even though he was tempted even as we are he did not sin. Everything is seen by angels but Jesus was also seen by messengers, those same messengers were instructed to proclaim him Christ among the Gentiles and believed on in the world. He was taken up by those who believed. He was also taken up into heaven.

    #781088
    kerwin
    Participant

    LU,

    Is it reasonable to assume that their bodies are significantly different than humans although similar in some ways?

    They are not human kind so their bodies are not human bodies.

    #781090
    kerwin
    Participant

    LU,


    @kerwin

    So is that a no…this verse, as translated is not your confession?

    The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    Are you asking me if I believe the manuscripts these words are translated from are more accurate to the original words than those that instead say “The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. ” then I am going to with the earlier manuscripts as many experts do today. The translators of the NET one group of such experts to do so.

    #781091
    journey42
    Participant

    then I am going to with the earlier manuscripts as many experts do today. The translators of the NET one group of such experts to do so.

    Kerwin

    Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

    #781093
    kerwin
    Participant

    Journey,

    Then why don’t you do as he says.

    #781111
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Lu……Yes i do believe angels have physical bodies, after all why do they eat manna which is called angels food in scripture if the did not have bodies to maintain? Who would need food for a “spirit body”, as some assume they have, it takes food to sustain physical bodies of any kind, spirits do not need food, they need bodies to live in.

    People get the wrong idea from scripture that says, “God creates or makes his angels spirits, which simly means God makes their spirits they have in them, just as he makes our spirits we have in us, That scripture in Hebrews is not saying, God makes his angels spirit beings, but that God makes there spirits they have in them and sends them out to do his will. That scripture is not talking about their bodies at all, just the spirits theyhave in them. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours……………….gene

    #781116
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    People get the wrong idea from scripture that says, “God creates or makes his angels spirits, which simly means God makes their spirits they have in them, just as he makes our spirits we have in us,

    I actually believe that is a mistranslation of that passage as it is not consistent with the second part if the verse which is also speaking angels but calls them servants instead of messengers.

    Psalm 104:4World English Bible (WEB)

    4 He makes his messengers[a] winds;
    his servants flames of fire.
    Footnotes:

    Psalm 104:4 or, angels

    With this translation both sides can be seen to be angels when it is later quoted in Scripture and the word winds symbolizes speed which is desired from a messenger while the words “flames of fire” symbolizes zeal which is desired from a servant.

    Angels does not make sense as both the messengers and servants are angels. Spirits is a possibility though it symbolizes a different idea than winds. Winds seems a better choice than spirit as speed is so desired in messengers.

    Isaiah 31:3 is another verse where translators make the same type error with the Hebrew word that can mean either wind or spirit. Like messengers, horses are desired by for speed. The Egyptian horses at that time must have been known for their speed.

    My understanding is based on the “as fast as the wind” simile.

    #781274
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @kerwin

    Although, he existed in the form of God, he emptied himself, and came in the flesh. Now he is at the right-hand of God in the glory that he had with him before the cosmos began. As for the body, there is a physical body and there is a spiritual body.

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