1 John 5:20

Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Read this part slowly:

“And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ.”

The true one mentioned in this verse, has to be the Father. Why?

Because it clearly says, We are in HIM who is true, by being in HIS son.

Who is the son mentioned here? It is Jesus Christ.

Who is the one who is true that has a son? Well that has to be the Father because Jesus never had a son did he? If you hold the view that Jesus is the one true God in this verse, then you have to conclude that Jesus has a son called Jesus because the one who is true has a son called Jesus according to the verse.

So by this very simple, clear, and reasonable reading of the text, we can see that the Father is the one who is true and we are in the Father because we are in HIS son. That is the only way you can read this verse.

Do you need further proof? Well look at John 17:3:
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

As you can see, the only true God is not Jesus Christ here either because the only true God is said to have sent Jesus Christ just like 1 John 5:20 says.

The next verse supports these two preceding verses and teaches that Jesus is not God, rather, that he was sent by God as confirmed in these two verses above.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.

You have just been shown two or three witness verses that clearly state that God sent his son into the world and that this God who has a son is the only true God.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 201 through 220 (of 1,982 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #286188
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,14:46)
    Hi Jammin,
    Yes you should be in the Son and then you too can know his God.
    The Son is not his own father.


    did i say that the son is also the father?

    i said the SON is GOD!

    the father and the son have the same nature, GOD!

    #286189
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:19)
    Hi ED,
    So Christ in the sons of God is still baptising folk into the Kingdom and giving them of His Spirit.
    Unless you have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.[Rom8]


    Hi Nick,

    Not sure what your getting at here?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #286190
    jammin
    Participant

    edj

    the meaning of “christ” is not GOD
    i already answered your questions but you are not reading it well

    Christ means son of GOD!

    now,
    is Christ GOD? of course!
    the father and the son have the same nature, GOD!

    Christ is truly GOD!

    1 John 5:20

    GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

    20We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

    #286196
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:20)
    Hi Ed,
    Jesus was baptised in water and the Spirit at the Jordan.


    Hi Nick,

    Your wording is fuzzy again; rather than just say No, I'll fix it so I can say Yes.
    Jesus was baptized in water and [received] the Spirit at the Jordan [river].    …yes, that is what Scripture tells us.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #286199
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:28)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:19)
    Hi ED,
    So Christ in the sons of God is still baptising folk into the Kingdom and giving them of His Spirit.
    Unless you have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.[Rom8]


    Hi Nick,

    Not sure what your getting at here?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hi Ed,
    ” Jn3
    “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”

    #286202
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:21)

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 17 2012,14:47)

    Hi Jammin,

    Are you saying (both 1 and 2)?
    1. Christ means(?) “God”?  and
    2. Christ means(?) “Son of God”?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Hi Jammin,

    So you say “No” to #1, and “Yes” to #2; right?        <– Please answer

    I ask because I want to be certain what you believe,
    so that there is no miscommunication between us; OK?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #286204
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Ed,
    Acts 11.15f
    ” And the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon at the beginning.. And I remmbered the word of the Lord, how he used to say
    'John baptised with water , but you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit”

    #286206
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    Christ means son of GOD!

    No.

    christ (from Greek) or messiah (from heb) both mean “anointed one.” These words are used for others who are anointed in the Bible. And often, it is just translated “anointed one.”

    #286208
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:35)

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:28)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:19)
    Hi ED,
    So Christ in the sons of God is still baptising folk into the Kingdom and giving them of His Spirit.
    Unless you have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.[Rom8]


    Hi Nick,

    Not sure what your getting at here?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Hi Ed,
    ” Jn3
    “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”


    Hi Nick,

    I have lined up these two verses so that you can “SEE” what Jesus is saying.
    Remember: Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God!

    John 3:5 Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
    John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #286209
    david
    Participant

    From the Greek, it seems to break down like this:

    1 John 5:20

    We have known but that the Son of the God is come and he has given to us mental perception in order that we are knowing the true (one) and we are in the true (one) in the Son of him to Jesus Christ This (one) is the true God and life everlasting

    It bugs me a little that these verses are always the ones that can so easily be understood in 2 completely different ways.

    Is Jesus the true one?
    Or did Jesus give us the ability to know the true one (God)?

    This verse really comes down to who you think the true one is. If you think it's Jesus, then this is proof that Jesus is God.
    If you think it's saying that Jesus told us who the true one (God) is, then this verse is saying that this true one (God) is the true God and life everlasting.

    So, it's not great proof for anything. Of course, we can find Bible translations that we prefer that make the interpretation lean one way or the other. But that is not proof of anything.

    #286210
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    as we can see in john 1.1, john says he is GOD!

    Except, Greek has no indefinite articles (“a”). So, in the Bible in English, we add the “a” in there thousands of times in front of the word “God” where needed.

    Might John 1:1 be a case where this applies?

    It was translated from Greek (which has no indefinite article) into other languages such as Latin, syriac, aramaic (which also have no indefinite article.)

    But around 1500, it was translated into English which does have the indefinite article. Those first English Bibles did not translate it with an indefinite article. (But then again, people were being burned at the stake for less.)

    What people don't know:
    1300 years before those English translations began, it was translated into Coptic, which like English does have the indefinite article in it's language.

    And so how did those Coptic translators, who lived at a time when koine Greek was still spoken and at a time when they definitely understood it…how did they translate John 1:1c?

    This way: “a god.”

    Coptic was a language of the Egyptians, but using the Greek alphabet (and a couple extra letters), so they lived at that time and were familiar with the grammar of that time.

    It doesn't prove anything one way or another, but it is extremely interesting that the first people who had the option of including the indefinite article “a” (and the people who actually lived back then as well) did in fact include the “a.”

    david

    #286215
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:40)
    Hi Ed,
    Acts 11.15f
    ” And the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon at the beginning.. And I remmbered the word of the Lord, how he used to say
    'John baptised with water , but you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit”


    Hi Nick, now I see where you going.

    In Acts 10:43-47, you “should” be able to see
    that water baptism is UNNECESSARY. (1Cor.1:14-16)
    Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through
    his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Acts 10:44-47 While Peter yet spake these words, the HolySpirit fell on all them which heard the word.
    And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles
    also was poured out the gift of the HolySpirit. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the HolySpirit as well as we?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #286217
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:52)
    From the Greek, it seems to break down like this:

    1 John 5:20

    We have known     but     that    the     Son     of the     God      is come      and     he has given      to us    mental perception     in order that      we are knowing     the    true (one)      and      we are     in      the     true (one)    in    the    Son    of him      to Jesus     Christ       This (one)      is    the    true    God    and    life    everlasting

    It bugs me a little that these verses are always the ones that can so easily be understood in 2 completely different ways.  

    Is Jesus the true one?
    Or did Jesus give us the ability to know the true one (God)?

    This verse really comes down to who you think the true one is.  If you think it's Jesus, then this is proof that Jesus is God.
    If you think it's saying that Jesus told us who the true one (God) is, then this verse is saying that this true one (God) is the true God and life everlasting.

    So, it's not great proof for anything.  Of course, we can find Bible translations that we prefer that make the interpretation lean one way or the other.  But that is not proof of anything.


    Hi David,

    It's God's Spirit that gives us life everlasting right?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #286221
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:44)

    Quote
    Christ means son of GOD!

    No.

    christ (from Greek) or messiah (from heb) both mean “anointed one.”  These words are used for others who are anointed in the Bible.  And often, it is just translated “anointed one.”


    yes christ means anointed.

    but it also means SON OF GOD!

    mat 16.16
    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ. You are the Son of the living God.”

    #286223
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:39)

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:21)

    Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 17 2012,14:47)

    Hi Jammin,

    Are you saying (both 1 and 2)?
    1. Christ means(?) “God”?  and
    2. Christ means(?) “Son of God”?

    God bless
    Ed J


    Hi Jammin,

    So you say “No” to #1, and “Yes” to #2; right?        <– Please answer

    I ask because I want to be certain what you believe,
    so that there is no miscommunication between us; OK?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    you dont believe that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1

    so we have a different belief.

    1. no
    2. yes

    #286224
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:52)
    From the Greek, it seems to break down like this:

    1 John 5:20

    We have known     but     that    the     Son     of the     God      is come      and     he has given      to us    mental perception     in order that      we are knowing     the    true (one)      and      we are     in      the     true (one)    in    the    Son    of him      to Jesus     Christ       This (one)      is    the    true    God    and    life    everlasting

    It bugs me a little that these verses are always the ones that can so easily be understood in 2 completely different ways.  

    Is Jesus the true one?
    Or did Jesus give us the ability to know the true one (God)?

    This verse really comes down to who you think the true one is.  If you think it's Jesus, then this is proof that Jesus is God.
    If you think it's saying that Jesus told us who the true one (God) is, then this verse is saying that this true one (God) is the true God and life everlasting.

    So, it's not great proof for anything.  Of course, we can find Bible translations that we prefer that make the interpretation lean one way or the other.  But that is not proof of anything.


    even if you post greek translation here.
    it does not prove that Christ is not the true in 1 john 5.20

    what we can read is that the father is the true GOD
    Christ is also the True GOD!

    means they have same nature, GOD!

    Christ is GOD!
    1 John 5:20

    20 We also know that the Son of God has come. He has given us understanding. Now we can know the One who is true. And we belong to the One who is true. We also belong to his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God. He is eternal life.

    #286228
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Jammin,
    Yes our hope is to be joined with Jesus Christ and God in the One Spirit.

    #286231
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,16:20)

    you dont believe that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1
    so we have a different belief.


    Hi Jammin, thanks for clarifying your position!

    Yes, but that is what we are here to do. Enlighten,
    and discuss scripture in a Christian manor; don't you agree?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #286232
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,16:18)

    Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:44)

    Quote
    Christ means son of GOD!

    No.

    christ (from Greek) or messiah (from heb) both mean “anointed one.”  These words are used for others who are anointed in the Bible.  And often, it is just translated “anointed one.”


    yes christ means anointed.

    but it also means SON OF GOD!

    mat 16.16
    16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ. You are the Son of the living God.”


    Um, no.

    it definitely means “anointed one.”

    I could show you tons of scriptures that quote a list of titles. It doesn't mean the second and third titles are definitions of the first title.

    “And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”
    This is a bad example, but I know there are examples that mirror Mt 16:16.

    Sometimes, we are just given a list of titles of someone. Just because they are connected in a sentence does not make them the same.

    #286234
    david
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,16:22)

    Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:52)
    From the Greek, it seems to break down like this:

    1 John 5:20

    We have known     but     that    the     Son     of the     God      is come      and     he has given      to us    mental perception     in order that      we are knowing     the    true (one)      and      we are     in      the     true (one)    in    the    Son    of him      to Jesus     Christ       This (one)      is    the    true    God    and    life    everlasting

    It bugs me a little that these verses are always the ones that can so easily be understood in 2 completely different ways.  

    Is Jesus the true one?
    Or did Jesus give us the ability to know the true one (God)?

    This verse really comes down to who you think the true one is.  If you think it's Jesus, then this is proof that Jesus is God.
    If you think it's saying that Jesus told us who the true one (God) is, then this verse is saying that this true one (God) is the true God and life everlasting.

    So, it's not great proof for anything.  Of course, we can find Bible translations that we prefer that make the interpretation lean one way or the other.  But that is not proof of anything.


    even if you post greek translation here.
    it does not prove that Christ is not the true in 1 john 5.20

    what we can read is that the father is the true GOD
    Christ is also the True GOD!

    means they have same nature, GOD!

    Christ is GOD!
    1 John 5:20

    20 We also know that the Son of God has come. He has given us understanding. Now we can know the One who is true. And we belong to the One who is true. We also belong to his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God. He is eternal life.


    I'm not trying to disprove or prove anything here.

    I know that cannot be done either way with this scripture.

    I am merely pointing out that this is a bad scripture to base something like this on, since it can so easily be understood in more than one way.

    “We are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. THIS is the true God and life everlasting.”

    Who is “THIS” referring to?

    You think that the demonstrative pronoun “this” (hou′tos) refers to its immediate antecedent, Jesus Christ.

    But some believe that the most natural reference of hou′tos is to the subject not locally nearest but dominant in the mind of the apostle–God.

    Haupt makes a good point: “A testimony to the one true God seems more in harmony with the final warning against idols than a demonstration of the divinity of Christ.”

    Even A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament, published by Rome’s Pontifical Biblical Institute, states: “[Hou′tos]: as a climax to [verses] 18-20 the ref[erence] is almost certainly to God the real, the true, [in] opp[osition to] paganism (v. 21).”

    Often hou′tos, generally translated “this” or “this one,” does not refer to the immediately preceding subject of a phrase. Other scriptures illustrate the point. At 2 John 7, the same apostle and penman of the first letter wrote: “Many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This [hou′tos′] is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Here the pronoun cannot refer to the closest antecedent—Jesus. Obviously, “this” refers to those who denied Jesus. They collectively are “the deceiver and the antichrist.”

    The apostle John wrote: “Andrew the brother of Simon Peter was one of the two that heard what John said and followed Jesus. First this one [hou′tos] found his own brother, Simon.” (John 1:40, 41) It is evident that “this one” refers, not to the last person mentioned, but to Andrew. At 1 John 2:22, the apostle uses the same pronoun in a similar way.

    Luke makes similar use of the pronoun, as seen at Acts 4:10, 11: “In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of you. This [hou′tos′] is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.’” The pronoun “this” clearly does not refer to the man who was healed, though he is the one mentioned just before hou′tos. Certainly, “this” in verse 11 refers to Jesus Christ the Nazarene, who is the “cornerstone” on which the Christian congregation is founded.—Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:4-8.
    Acts 7:18, 19 also illustrates the point: “There rose a different king over Egypt, who did not know of Joseph. This one [hou′tos] used statecraft against our race.” “This one” who oppressed the Jews was, not Joseph, but Pharaoh, the king of Egypt.

    Such passages confirm the observation made by Greek scholar Daniel Wallace, who says that for Greek demonstratives, “what might be the nearest antecedent contextually might not be the nearest antecedent in the author’s mind.”

    SO, IT DOESN'T MATTER that the name Jesus was closest to the “this.” It matters what was on the mind of the writer.

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