What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 681 through 700 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #797246
    kerwin
    Participant

    EdJ,

    Nick said:

    Hi ED,

    The serpent was already in the garden before the arrival of Adam.

    You replied:

    Scripture please

    Animals were created before human beings.

    Angels also game first and celebrated when God laid the foundations of the earth.

    #797258
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Yes the angels were there.jb 38

    Gen 1 suggests animals first

    Gen 2 suggests men.

    Since gen 1 is chronological and gen 2 interpretative you are right.

    #797302
    Ed J
    Participant

    EdJ,

    Nick said:

    Hi ED,

    The serpent was already in the garden before the arrival of Adam.

    You replied:

    Scripture please

    Animals were created before human beings.

    Angels also game first and celebrated when God laid the foundations of the earth.

    Hi Kerwin,

    It’s best to pay attention to what is being said.
    The question was NOT were Angels created after .donkeys

    Nick said that the serpent was in the garden before Adam was created – to which I replied:

    Scripture please

    Show me when the serpent was put in (or came into) the garden.
    He may have came into the garden after Adam had been their a while.
    The bible doesn’t say one way or the other, or does it? then please show me.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #797304
    Ed J
    Participant

    Simultaneously is always a possibility as well.

    Maybe I should just go with you and Nick because you both (seem to) agree.
    All I ask is you provide some evidence, with out it your opinion carries little value.

    You can ask Nick, every time I give a premise, I also provide
    scriptural evidence which support the premise.

    That is all I ask for is “scriptural evidence” – well, do you have any?

    _______________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #797372
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    What is your confession about Jesus Christ?

    That he is God or the SON of God??

    #797589
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    The Word was with God.

    Christ Jesus was in the form of God.

     

    The Word was made flesh.

    Now all men can be given the Spirit of Christ.

    #797665
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    Jesus Christ proceeded forth AND came from God.

    The WORD was with God and was God.

    #797666
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

    The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

     

    What was from the beginning

    What we have heard

    What we have seen with our eyes,

    What we have looked at and touched with our hands,

    concerning THE WORD OF LIFE-and the life was manifested

    And we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the ETERNAL LIFE

    Which was WITH the Father and was manifested to us.

    What we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also,

    so that you too may have fellowship with us

    And indeed the fellowship is with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

     

    #797784
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh.

    In him was light and life

    #797802
    kerwin
    Participant

    ED J,

    Genesis 1 tells of how that were created in the land of Eden before mankind and therefore the serpent was there first.

    The angels were around to celebrate when the foundations of the earth were set and therefore they existed before mankind.

    The animal was there but as far as I know the angels stood far off and watched it on their superior version of television.

    #797819
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Yes the serpent was used by a satan to influence Eve using logic and inference.

    Satans wish to be in a human vessel. They dwell in dry places till they can find one.

    Using a serpent cost the serpent such that he was cursed to get around on his belly from then.

    Satan is not one of his demons but is seen as being among the sons of God speaking with God in job1-3

    Of course satan himself does not do the dirty work. He has an army that relies on obedience to him to be effective.

     

    #797894
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    Jesus of Nazareth was made a vessel for the Holy Spirit. acts 2.22

    The Word was made flesh and dwelled among us.

    #797909
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    If you have become a Jew who is your shepherd?

    Does the OT LAW rule you?

    #797979
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi,

    So the man Jesus of Nazareth did not have ancient origins.

    He was conceived in Mary and born in Bethlehem

    The Spirit that indwelled him did.

    #797988
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    If you have become a Jew who is your shepherd?

    Does the OT LAW rule you?

    You are still going beyond Scripture as Paul claimed that his religion after his conversion and that of the Jews was the same religion and yet you disagree with him. Consider your doctrine that you do not lead others astray.

    #797990
    kerwin
    Participant

    Nick,

    Jesus Christ originated in the mind of God before the beginning of creation.

    #797992
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    So you sit on the fence.

     

    The Law is a hard schoolmaster that demands perfection.

    My yoke is easy. My burden is light

    #797993
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    Nick,

    Jesus Christ originated in the mind of God before the beginning of creation.

     

    Any scriptures?

    It seems we are always asking you this.

    #798071
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi KW,

    So who is Jesus from your jewish religion perspective?

    #798083
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @NickHassan

    God made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

    But that does not mean that he did not exist in the form of God, empty himself, come in the flesh, die for humanity, and rose to the right hand of the Father and in the same glory he had with him before the Cosmos.

    If I left the place of my origin and took nothing with me, came to the USA ,started all over gain and eventually was made the president, (illegal I know), then does that deny any authority, power, or glory that I had in my homeland?

    No. Unless you have proof, you are in the realm of speculation.

    He existed in the form of God, or with God’s nature, emptied himself, took on flesh, and is now back where he was before the cosmos began which is at the right-hand of the Father in glory.

Viewing 20 posts - 681 through 700 (of 858 total)
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