Home Christian Writings What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine Page 27

What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.

Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 521 through 540 (of 858 total)
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  • April 24, 2015 at 1:16 pm#795576
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    So Jesus had flesh and when he was anointed the Word became flesh as well, and so is that two fleshes or is it two in one flesh. i.e., Jesus the man and the Word inhabiting the same flesh?

    Starting to sound a little like debating the Trinity now.

    No more difficult to understand than the word be in the English language. According to Merriam-Websters online dictionary one meaning of “be” is “used to describe the qualities of a person or thing”. That is why the statement God is love does not mean God is the emotion of love but that it is his quality. The statement “The Word became flesh” means the Word gained the quality of flesh. In the same manner the words “the Word was God” means that the Word has the quality of God.

    You know these things already but you have been taught to look at Scripture in another way.

    April 24, 2015 at 2:57 pm#795583
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Kerwin, my questioning is trying to narrow down these differences with how Nick understands things.

    It has little to do with what I actually believe at this stage and more about the Word that was with God and was theos from his view. I am not asking these questions because I need to know the answer, although if I learn something new that would be helpful. I have already explained my stance on this in this site many times before and not worth repeating right now.

    I am trying to determine from Nick the following:

    1. Did the Word come in the flesh or actually transform into flesh? Inhabit or change form/state?
    2. If it came in the flesh, then what exactly is the Word that it can be embodied? Is it Spirit or what?
    3. If it actually transformed into flesh, did it transform and share the flesh that Jesus already had and if so, does that mean Jesus and the Word inhabit the same flesh, two in one? A mere man like us in union with something divine from God perhaps?
    4. And if there are two in one flesh, (Jesus and the Word), does the Word still exist as non-flesh too or was it wholly transformed into the flesh of Jesus?
    5. And is Jesus the flesh, or soul, etc. I think he answered this one already.

    I ask these questions because reading his posts often comes across as him saying that Jesus is a mere shell, but that shell became filled with the Word unlike us perhaps. It’s just not very clear exactly what he means to me. I think some read what he says and ignore it because they don’t know what he is saying.

    In addition what these questions will hopefully uncover is if Nick thinks the Word that was with God was alive in its own right, is just a force of God, or is an extension of God like words which are not necessarily a force but an expression of oneself meaning it is part of God, but not wholly God .

    April 24, 2015 at 5:14 pm#795589
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    The Word was infilled into the flesh man Jesus of Nazareth.

    The Word is the Spirit of Christ-spirit of Spirit..

    The man became one with the Word.

    The Word became flesh.

     

    There is no suggestion that the Word was thence outside of Jesus Christ

     

    April 24, 2015 at 5:40 pm#795592
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    My derivations.

    The Spirit of Christ is the Word.

    The Word which was God became a separate entity within the Spirit of God.

    The role of the Spirit of Christ is to serve and worship God-the Spirit of the Son, the servant Spirit.

     

    April 24, 2015 at 5:45 pm#795593
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Sorry I posted this under the Admin ID.

    Here it is again. But it appears to you may have already responded to it.

    Okay, so when the Word inhabited the body (tent) of Jesus Christ, then Jesus own Spirit cohabited the flesh with the Word?

    If so, then does Jesus own spirit still resides in his body or was it replaced by the Word?

    April 24, 2015 at 5:59 pm#795594
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    There is no suggestion that the Word was thence outside of Jesus Christ

    The Word was with God was not Jesus, however, the Word became flesh, so the Word is now Jesus Christ (wholly) who is with God now.

    Is that a good summation?

    April 24, 2015 at 6:26 pm#795595
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Yes

    April 25, 2015 at 9:27 pm#795679
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So what happened to the old Jesus. Was he overtaken by the Word? Did he die and not come back to life? Where is he?

    If the old Jesus is still alive, is he co-existing with the Word or was he replaced?

    April 26, 2015 at 4:52 pm#795737
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,

    The OLD Jesus?

     

    Are you a soul? You have said we are souls many times here.

    Did you think Jesus was different to us?

     

    What happened to his body?

    Since we follow him I suggest the same as happens with our old bodies.

     

    April 27, 2015 at 3:19 pm#795810
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    So Jesus the man still lives, but has become the Word of God wholly?

    April 27, 2015 at 3:37 pm#795811
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi T8,

    Jesus the man lives by the eternal Spirit.

    His soul harbours the Word.

     

    One with the Father and the brothers-physically alive or dead- in the Spirit.

     

    God has restored the kingdom using mere men and such men partake in the reward.

    April 27, 2015 at 3:41 pm#795813
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    Dan 7

    .13

    I kept looking in the night visions and behold, with the clouds of heaven one like a son of man was coming

    and he came up to the Ancient of days and was presented before Him.

    And to him was given dominion, glory and a kingdom.

     

    A mere son of man honoured by God.

    April 27, 2015 at 4:14 pm#795822
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    The Spirit of Christ is of the Spirit of God.

    Trinity (Part 2)

    So you say that the spirit of Christ is of the spirit of God and that this spirit of God resides in the soul of Jesus.

    So Jesus has two spirits inside his soul. The spirit of God (his Father) and the spirit of Christ (the Word).

    John said this:

    The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

    Clearly we see that the Spirit of God communes with our spirit too.

    What is our spirit? Is it also the Word?

    Or is the Word wholly inside the soul of Christ now? I think you already answered yes to that last question.

    If you have answered yes, then the Logos is no longer part of God?

     

    April 27, 2015 at 4:40 pm#795824
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    “So you say that the spirit of Christ is of the spirit of God and that this spirit of God resides in the soul of Jesus.

    So Jesus has two spirits inside his soul. The spirit of God (his Father) and the spirit of Christ (the Word).”

     

    The words of Jesus and Paul clarify that there is one Spirit.

    Jesus takes care to avoid confusion by speaking of two counsellors, not two Spirits. in jn 14-16

    We should too.

     

    “Clearly we see that the Spirit of God communes with our spirit too.

    What is our spirit? Is it also the Word?”

     

    If you are alive to have your own spirit.

    Only when you die and your own spirit returns to God will you be like Jesus and the apostles and prophets, alive only in the Holy Spirit.

    If you are reborn from above the Word and the Father abide, just as as an earnest, now in you. Your spirit is not the Word.

     

    “Or is the Word wholly inside the soul of Christ now? I think you already answered yes to that last question.

    If you have answered yes, then the Logos is no longer part of God?”

     

    The Spirit of Christ is shared with all in Christ making them one in his Body.

     

    “Or is the Word wholly inside the soul of Christ now? I think you already answered yes to that last question.

    If you have answered yes, then the Logos is no longer part of God?”

     

    The Word was God. The Word is not God.

    Now the Word is in Spiritual unity with God in the same way as we can be.

    April 28, 2015 at 12:13 am#795839
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Thanks for clarifying your views.

    While I probably agree with much of it, there are still things that I cannot prove by scripture as yet and so some speculation resides when joining the dots.

    I would now like to take a look at another view written back in the second century on this same subject. The conclusion seems different to yours. The main difference is that you say that The Word was with God is not Jesus Christ. Granted that he had not been born as a man yet and given that name, the point is that you do not believe that the Word was alive as another with God while these following explanations do. So for now that is probably the main point I would like to investigate now. You probably have read some of these before, and I remember that you posted years back about how these second-century apostles were led astray and failed us, so that is probably still your stance. But for the sake of testing all things and knowing that they had a better grasp of the language being used, I would like to add this to draw out the differences with you and with the view that the Word is Jesus before he came as a man. Or to put it another way, Jesus come in the flesh.

    Tatian (165 A.D)

    God was in the beginning, but the beginning, we have been taught, is the power of the Word. For the Lord of the universe, who is Himself the necessary basis of all being, inasmuch as no creature was yet in existence, was alone, but inasmuch as He was all powerful, Himself the necessary ground of things visible and invisible, with Him were all things; with Him, by Word-power, the Word himself also, who was in Him, subsists. And by His simple will the Word sprang forth, and the Word, not coming forth in vain, became the firstbegotten work of the Father . Him [the Word] we know to be the Beginning of the world (cf. Rev. 3:14). But He came into being by participation, not by cutting off, for what is cut off is separated from the original substance, but that which comes by participation, making its choice of function, does not render him deficient from whom it is taken. For just as from one torch many fires are lighted, but the light of the first torch is not lessened by the kindling of many torches, so the Word, coming forth from the Word-Power of the Father, has not divested of the Word-Power Him who begat Him. I myself, for instance, speak [words], and you hear, yet, certainly, I who converse do not become destitute of my word, by the transmission of speech, but by the utterance of my voice I endeavour to reduce to order the unarranged matter in your minds. And as the Word begotten in the beginning, begat in turn our world, having first created for himself the necessary matter, so also I, in imitation of the Word, being begotten again, and having become possessed of the truth, am trying to reduce to order the confused matter which is kindred with myself. For matter is not, like God, without beginning, nor, as having no beginning, is of equal power with God, it is begotten, and not produced by any other being, but brought into existence by the Framer of all things alone (Address to the Greeks, 5).

    Theophilus of Antioch (ca. 175 A.D)

    God made all things out of nothing, for nothing was coexisting with God, but He being His own place, and wanting nothing, and existing before the ages, willed to make man by whom He might be known, for him, therefore, He prepared the world. For he that is created is also needy, but He that is uncreated stands in need of nothing. God, then, having His own Word internal within His own bosom, begat him, emitting him along with His own wisdom before all things. He had this Word as a helper in the things that were created by Him, and by him He made all things. He [the Word] is called “the Beginning” [arche],1 because he rules, and is Lord of all things fashioned by him. He, then, being Spirit of God, and arche, and wisdom, and Power of The Highest, came down upon the prophets, and through them spoke of the creation of the world and of all other things. For the prophets were not when the world came into existence, but the wisdom of God which was in him, and His holy Word which was always present with him.

    Irenaeus (ca. 185 A.D)

    And therefore One God, the Father is declared, who is above all, and through all, and in all. The Father is indeed above all, and He is the Head of Christ. But the Word is through all things, and is himself the head of the church, and the Spirit is in us all, and he is the living water, that the Lord grants to those who rightly believe in him, and love him, and who know that “there is one Father, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.” (Book V, 18).

    Then in the 200s we start to see the foundations for the Trinity Doctrine we know today.

    Tertullian (early 200’s)

    Christ… the Power of God, and the Spirit of God, as the Word, the Reason, the Wisdom, and the Son of God. (Apology, 23).

    We have already declared that God made the world, and all which it contains, by His Word, and Reason, and Power. It is abundantly plain that your philosophers, too, regard the Logos, that is, the Word and Reason, as the Creator of the universe…And we, in like manner, hold that the Word, and Reason, and Power, by which we have said God made all, have spirit as their proper and essential substratum, in which the Word has inbeing to give forth utterances, and reason abides to dispose and arrange, and power is over all to execute. We have been taught that he proceeds forth from God, and in that procession he is generated [ begotten], so that he is the Son of God, and is called “God” from unity of substance with God. For God, too, is Spirit. Even when the ray is shot from the sun, it is still part of the parent mass, the sun will still be in the ray, because it is a ray of the sun–there is no division of substance, but merely an extension. Thus Christ is spirit of the Spirit, and god of the God, as light of Light is kindled. The material matrix remains entire and unimpaired, though you derive from it any number of shoots possessed of its qualities; so, too, that which has come forth out of God is at once “God” and the Son of God, and the two are one. In this way also, as he is Spirit of the Spirit and God of the God, He is made second in manner of existence, in position, not in nature, and He did not withdraw from the original source, but went forth. This ray of God, then, as it was always foretold in ancient times, descending into a certain virgin, and made flesh in her womb, is in his birth God and man united. Apology, 21).

    Notice that Tertullian says that Jesus is spirit of spirit which is what you also say.

    Is it possible that innocent speculation as teaching leads to doctrines unforeseen later on?

    April 28, 2015 at 12:28 am#795840
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Okay just quickly, I would like to point out similarities that seem to point to Jesus as being the Word that was with God in the beginning which you do not believe yourself.

    • God created all things through his Word. He did the same thing through his son Jesus Christ. Coincidence?
    • Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelation. While it doesn’t prove he was the Word that was with God, it does fit that hypothesis.
    • We are told that Jesus existed in the form of God (spirit?) before coming in the flesh and that he is now at the right-hand of God, in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos began.
    • We are told that the Word became flesh (John 1-3) and that Jesus also came in the flesh, see 1 John 4:2.
    • If every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, then who was Jesus before he came in the flesh? Perhaps the Word?

    Talking about the last point, that is the one I want to discuss now because it is the most serious one.

    Do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?

    Do you believe that the Word became flesh?

    If God made everything through his Word (John 1-3) and he made everything through Jesus Christ his son, (Hebrews 1:2) then why is Jesus not the Word that was with God? Further, this seems to be the view of the next generation after Jesus and the apostles, but you beg to differ.

    I guess an expected reply from you would be that you disagree that Jesus was the Word that was with God in the beginning. I would like confirmation of this, so I know it is your view. Otherwise you might need to clarify further as I haven’t quite understood your view then.

    April 28, 2015 at 5:29 am#795851
    kerwin
    Participant

    t8,

    Nick has a different understanding of at least some of the verses that you choose to use your understanding of them as evidence. That means he views your arguments as flawed.

    1 Timothy 2:5-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

    How do you understand this verse?

    I hear that the human being named Jesus Christ is the only one the mediates between God and humanity. I also hear he is the same one who gave himself as a ransom for the whole world and that fact will be testified in due time.

    April 28, 2015 at 7:26 am#795859
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8.

    “Okay just quickly, I would like to point out similarities that seem to point to Jesus as being the Word that was with God in the beginning which you do not believe yourself.

    God created all things through his Word. He did the same thing through his son Jesus Christ. Coincidence?Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelation. While it doesn’t prove he was the Word that was with God, it does fit that hypothesis.We are told that Jesus existed in the form of God (spirit?) before coming in the flesh and that he is now at the right-hand of God, in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos began.We are told that the Word became flesh (John 1-3) and that Jesus also came in the flesh, see 1 John 4:2.If every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, then who was Jesus before he came in the flesh? Perhaps the Word?
    Talking about the last point, that is the one I want to discuss now because it is the most serious one.

    Do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?

    Do you believe that the Word became flesh?

    If God made everything through his Word (John 1-3) and he made everything through Jesus Christ his son, (Hebrews 1:2) then why is Jesus not the Word that was with God? Further, this seems to be the view of the next generation after Jesus and the apostles, but you beg to differ.

    I guess an expected reply from you would be that you disagree that Jesus was the Word that was with God in the beginning. I would like confirmation of this, so I know it is your view. Otherwise you might need to clarify further as I haven’t quite understood your view then.”

     

     

    The first questions to be answered are

    Do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?  YES

     

    Do you believe that the Word became flesh? YES

     

    It is about spiritual language.

     

    You say

    “Jesus is called the Word of God in Revelation. ”

    WHERE?

    Be accurate. On his thigh the words are written

     

    “We are told that Jesus existed in the form of God (spirit?”

    WHERE?

    It does say CHRIST JESUS- the anointing is the difference.

     

    If you do not understand that the anointing from above is the important feature you will always read into scripture that a man from earth did these things

    Acts 2.22 makes clear that any supernatural activity done by Jesus is by the SPIRIT in him.

    It also clarifies in at least 3 places that Jesus was a man, and not some sort of demigod.

    Jesus Christ is now the Word by anointing, but a man was not God or with God in the beginning.

     

    The glory belongs to God.

    The key is to understand

    ” JESUS CHRIST is the same yesterday , today and forever”

    God’s view is prophetic and retrospective.

    The words of God does not submit to the rules of logic that men are guided by.

    April 28, 2015 at 7:59 am#795861
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi t8,

    The trinity heresy came about because men highlight the flesh.

    Men glorify flesh. Flesh contributes nothing.

    It is all by the anointing Spirit.

     

    2Cor 5 16

    “Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him this way no longer”

    April 28, 2015 at 8:02 am#795862
    NickHassan
    Participant

     

    Hi t8

     

    ” JESUS CHRIST is the same yesterday , today and forever”

     

    Bad english? or spiritual language.

    Surely it should read

    “JESUS CHRIST WAS the same yesterday …”

     

    God’s view is not ours.

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