What is your confession? – The Trinity Doctrine

Part 01 – The Trinity Doctrine
Part 02 – Who is the Most High God.
Part 03 – Who and what is Jesus?
Part 04 – The true meaning of ‘God’.
Part 05 – Supporting the Trinity
Part 06 – Pre-Nicene writings
Part 07 – Development of the Trinity
Part 08 – Why challenge the Trinity
Part 09 – Trinity Doctrine conclusion
Part 10 – An Apostasy
Part 11 – 100 indisputable proof verses
Part 12 – What is your confession?
Part 13 – The Roman Catholic faith
Part 14 – Trinity Doctrine resources

Let’s take a look at what different persons or beings believed about who Jesus Christ of Nazareth really was.

The foundation of the Catholic Church (&  most  Protestant churches)

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Hence God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. These three persons make up one God. But rather than each being one-third of God, each person is co-equal and co-eternal, and 100% God

Now compare the above to what others in scripture confess about the identity and role of Jesus Christ.

Demons

Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ. (Luke 4:41)

“What have I to do with you, Jesus, you Son of the Most High God?
I adjure you by God, don’t torment me.”
For he said to him, “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit!”
He asked him, “What is your name?”
He said to him, “My name is Legion, for we are many.”

Nowhere do demons say Jesus is God. Instead they knew that he was the son of God.

Satan

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “`He will command his angels
concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

Nowhere is it written that Satan calls Jesus God. Rather he too knows that Jesus is the son of God.

Roman centurion

“Surely he was the Son of God!” (Matthew 27:54)

Among this centurion, all the other onlookers, those that heard the words of Jesus, and even those that only heard about him, none of them ever said that Jesus was God, Instead they said he was either mad, a false prophet, a true prophet, Elijah, John the Baptist, the messiah, and the son of God. For the centurion to utter these true words, it must have been obvious that Jesus was claiming to be the son of God, to his mind at least.

Peter

“You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven”. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, (Matthew 16:17-18)

If you were given the opportunity from Jesus to answer the same question from Jesus, “who am I”, would your answer be as Peter or would it instead be “you are God”. If it is the latter, do you not think it at least strange that Peter didn’t take this opportunity to say that Jesus was God like you would? I mean, do you know more than Peter? Surely if the foundation of the Church were really the Trinity, then Peter would have said that Jesus was God and part of the Trinity and then Jesus would have built his Church on that. Instead what we clearly see is that the foundation was built on the fact that Jesus is the son of God and the Christ.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, (1 Peter 1:3)

Peter clearly acknowledges that God is the Heavenly Father and that he is the God of Jesus. This is quite different to the Trinity Doctrine which confesses that Jesus is God and part of a Triune God. Nowhere is it written that Peter said or taught that Jesus Christ is God.

John

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. (John 20:31)

The Book of John is said to be the book that teaches the Trinity. After all, most consider John 1:1 to be the cornerstone of the Trinity Doctrine. Yet the truth is that the whole point of the Book of John was to believe what John said above, Is it not strange then that men say that John was teaching the Trinity when John himself says that his book was written so that you would believe  that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.

John also wrote in the first verse of the Book of Revelation the following:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (Revelation 1:1)

Clearly God and Jesus are different. And John gave a warning about this book.

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. (Revelation 22:18-19)

If you believe that the Book of Revelation teaches Jesus is God or part of the Trinity, then you are clearly adding to these words of this book.

Paul

Paul’s creed is as follows:

For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:5-6)

Notice that Paul says for US, there is ONE God the Father and ONE Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. So why is it then that many others basically say, for THEM, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. And one Lord, the Lord Father, Lord Son, and Lord Spirit. Surely this is a departure from the truth.

In case you think this is just a difficult translation, Paul basically repeats his creed here:

there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)

and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 1:4)

Where in Paul’s creed is the Trinity? Where in Paul’s creed is Jesus is God. Clearly according to our brother Paul, Jesus is the Lord and the Son. And to show you that Lord is different to God, I present you with the words of Peter:

“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36)

So Paul and Peter demonstrate that Paul was an avid teacher of Jesus being the son of God, the messiah, and the Lord and that it was God who made Jesus Lord. Nowhere does Paul teach that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity.

Gabriel

He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.” “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:32-35)

God’s messenger Gabriel, tell us who Jesus is. Nowhere in scripture does Gabriel or any other angel state that Jesus is God or part of the Trinity. He even forecasts that he will be called the Son of the Most High. Who is the Most High then? Certainly not Jesus because he is his son of the Most High.

Jesus

Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3)

To those who won’t listen to Peter, John, or Paul, surely they will listen to the words of Jesus? And if anyone knew who Jesus was it would surely be Jesus himself. So what does Jesus say about God and himself? He states that the following truth is eternal life. And what truth is that? Is it the Trinity as many would have you believe? Is it that Jesus is God? No, it is that the Father is the only true God and that the only true God sent Jesus Christ into the world.

Do we believe what Jesus said, or shall we believe the cleverly devised fables of men and doctrines of demons which seems to be the majority’s opinion on this subject.

The Father

“This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him.” (Mark 9:7)

Notice that the highest authority in existence (the Father) did not say that Jesus is God and part of the Trinity. He never even hinted at such an idea. If you or anyone else rejects Peter, John, Paul, and even Jesus words above, then will you listen to the Father?

So what should your confession be?

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.. (1 John 2:22)

Clearly, Jesus is the messiah and the son of God. To believe otherwise is of the antichrist spirit. Replacing this with a doctrine that Jesus is God or part of a Trinity is clearly wrong. Believing this and adding it as a requirement is even worse. Yet many churches have done this very thing by making the Trinity Doctrine the foundation of their church. In scripture we clearly see that the true Church is the Body of Christ and this Church is built on the truth that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Not the Trinity as many expect.

Now that we can see from scripture who Jesus really is, what should be our confession right now? It should be that Jesus Christ is Lord.

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    and every tongue acknowledge 
    that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

So why not start today. Instead of confessing that Jesus Christ is God, why not confess the truth instead, that Jesus Christ is Lord, the son of God, and the messiah. If you truly believe that, then you believe correctly regarding who Jesus is and this is important because it is the Father who has revealed the son to us.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 461 through 480 (of 858 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #793827
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Nick or to whom it may concern

    The most amazing thing is the ability for Christians to manipulate the scripture, when the bible says Elijah was taken up to heaven, they get upset ask which heaven and all sorts of things but Jesus said:

    John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.

    Does he say the 3rd heaven or the 10th heaven? no but Christians don’t like that Elijah was taken up and whatever Heaven he ascended to he ascended before Jesus. Jesus was created and came from heaven and descended through Mary, Elijah had already ascended

    #793830
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Yes the Word came from heaven.

    None had entered there so it could not have been the heaven Elijah ascended to.

    #793829
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    So you do agree with the pharisees?

    You keep strange company.

    #793831
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    @DavidL

    You keep saying that John 1:1 represents Genesis also, right?

    So here is the question: Does God have a beginning?

    Because in both John and Genesis it talks about the beginning of something and although I am certain 100% it is the beginning of different things and that John and Genesis have nothing to do with each other…God wants me to ask you….”Do I have a beginning?”

    #793838
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    The Words of Peter were from the Holy Spirit.

    Do you think the pharisees were led by the Spirit of God?

    #793972
    DavidL
    Participant

    So you do agree with the pharisees?

    You keep strange company.

    I speak to you truth – and this is your response..!

    ..are you grasping for straws…?

    The Pharisees could not accept the truth because of their own pride..

    ..do you also have the same problem…??

     

    #793973
    DavidL
    Participant

    You keep saying that John 1:1 represents Genesis also, right?

    So here is the question: Does God have a beginning?

    Because in both John and Genesis it talks about the beginning of something and although I am certain 100% it is the beginning of different things and that John and Genesis have nothing to do with each other…God wants me to ask you….”Do I have a beginning?”

    The beginning of creation…

    John takes the first four words of Scripture “In the beginning God..” and inserts Jesus in here as the Word..

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

    This is John’s way of showing us who Jesus is..

     

    “He was with God in the beginning.” v2

    “All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” v3

    Col 1:16, “For in Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible..”

    Heb 1:2, “God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.”

     

     

    #793976
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi David,

    So WAS somehow means the same as IS?

    Jesus was conceived in Mary.

    You confuse the vessel with the contents.

    #793977
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Davidl,

    It is you who offered the words of the pharisees in support of your theory that Peter’s words needed adding to.

    And you accuse us of pride?

    #793983
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    DavidL

    So if Jesus was in the beginning of creation then he was not before creation God was before the beginning. Although I keep explaining to you John is being poetical whereas Genesis is historical.

    If the word became flesh is a literal statement then the Word of God died? when Jesus says the Flesh profiteth nothing if the word was made flesh literally would not that mean it profits not? You are simply mistaken

    #793994
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Scripture says Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit when he said

    “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God’

    Do you agree or do you think Jesus and Peter are mistaken?

    #794000
    bodhitharta
    Participant

    Hi Nick

    Hi BD,

    Scripture says Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit when he said

    “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God’

    Do you agree or do you think Jesus and Peter are mistaken?

    No, of course not

    Luke 1:32
    He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

    #794002
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    Scripture says Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit when he said

    “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” (Matt 16:16)

    Do you agree or do you think Jesus and Peter are mistaken?

    Hi Nick,

    Good post, but I will need to explain it to BD as he is slow to accept the things of God.
    BD, this verse connects up what John said in 1John 2:22, I will post the verse and explain.

    “Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? ……………….Thou art the Christ,
    He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.” (1John 2:22)………the Son of the living God. (Matt 16:16)

    Do you see it now BD?
    CHRIST *is* THE SON OF GOD!

    So to say “Jesus is the Messiah” is to affirm that “Jesus is the Son of God”
    ‘anti-christ’ denying “Jesus is the Son of God” is denying “Jesus is the Messiah”
    Messiah means anointed, and to be anointed as God’s appointed leader (ref. 1Sam.15:1)

    Jesus is God’s appointed LEADER that is why we are Christians
    we are Christians because we follow Christ God’s appointed leader.

    Muhammad is the false prophet of Revelation and the islamic messiah.
    The false god of islam is fallen angel Lucifer that called himself Jibreel.

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #794018
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi BD,

    So do you call him THE SON OF THE HIGHEST?

    #794079
    DavidL
    Participant

    It is you who offered the words of the pharisees in support of your theory that Peter’s words needed adding to.

    And you accuse us of pride?

     

    I say that Jesus is the Son of God…

    You say – he was just a man…!!

    Aren’t you being the Pharisee..??

     

    “..And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said to him, “You have said it yourself [that is, your own actions against Me are proof of who I am]; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.” – Matt 26:63

    The Pharisees couldn’t accept this – it was too imperious and antagonizing for their religious conceitedness to conceive how this insignificant son of a carpenter from Nazareth with no formal degrees of education in the Torah would dare to elevate Himself above all their meticulous tradition of self-proclaimed wisdom and religious superiority..

     

    And so, you also cannot accept the reality of Christ..

    Is it because your man-made doctrine (like the Pharisees) has put you at odds with the truth..?

    Claiming to be led by the Spirit – your own anti-trinity bias has actually led you into a place where you are forced to deny the reality of Jesus Christ…!!!

     

    Today there are many who claim to be sons of God – “children of Abraham” (and may genuinely want to be) – when in fact their own actions expose and betray them as children of deception… tares among wheat.

     

     

     

    #794080
    DavidL
    Participant

    If the word became flesh is a literal statement then the Word of God died? when Jesus says the Flesh profiteth nothing if the word was made flesh literally would not that mean it profits not? You are simply mistaken

     

    The flesh of Jesus Christ is our food.

    His words, the only visible and tangible part of Him we have on earth, are what believers feed and meditate upon – our very life.. (at least, this is how it’s meant to be – and is when we are first born again.. before we get seduced by carnal reasoning)…

    “like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow..” 1 Peter 2:2

    “But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.” 2 Cor 11:3

    “Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers of this world, rather than from Christ.” Col 2:8

     

    Did the Word of God die..? actually Christ came to die…to give His life as a ransom for many..

    Death means separation – Jesus tasted the agony and horror of separation for every man..(the sinless One receiving the punishment that belongs to us as sinners – thus becoming our Passover Lamb)

    Yet, as the Psalms declare – “For Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.” (16:10)

    “so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him.” Heb 9:28

     

    When Jesus said, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.” ..it is like saying, Don’t get caught up in all the outward doctrine of religion, but get to the real meaning beneath it all…come to Me – don’t get confused by man-made beliefs..Satan also works in religion to get us caught up in the externals, and away from the deeper reality of spiritual truth found only in knowing Jesus Christ..

     

    #794081
    kerwin
    Participant

    David,

    John takes the first four words of Scripture “In the beginning God..” and inserts Jesus in here as the Word..

    God created the heaven and earth by his Word but the first mention is when he spoke and said “Let there be Light” and there was light.

    Jesus was not conceived nor were those by which he originated, except for God. God had not yet made Adam.

    #794083
    kerwin
    Participant

    Bodhitharta,

    John 3:13 is hard to understand because there is more than one version in manuscripts and other reasons. This is the version I favor.

    John 3:13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    Jesus had not yet bodily ascended to haven and yet and the way it is written in English tells us that in the past Jesus was speaking the Son of man was the only human that ascended to heaven. The version I prefer states he was currently in heave even as his body was speaking to Nicodemus.

    In other places he teaches the same things though in different words. In short he is in God through the Spirit and God is in him through the same Spirit. In this one he is teaching Nicodemus that he is the only one that this up to the time he is speaking.

    Some are confused and think Jesus is speaking of his bodily ascension, which happens later.

    Jesus often taught about the Spirit though his words were not as clear as some of his students.

    #794084
    DavidL
    Participant

     

    God created the heaven and earth by his Word but the first mention is when he spoke and said “Let there be Light” and there was light.

    Jesus was not conceived nor were those by which he originated, except for God. God had not yet made Adam.

     

    don’t you understand yet….

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*JESUS*IS*THE*LIGHT*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    #794087
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi davidl,

    Amazing isn’t it.

    The Son of MAN seated in the heavenlies.

    What a vessel!

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