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Coming Out of the Closet

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“Just because a guy struggles with same-sex attraction doesn’t mean God made him gay, any more than a guy struggling with anger means God made him a murderer. You have a choice about what you do with every temptation. You may not choose homosexual desires, but you do choose what you do with them.” https://www.livingwaters.com/coming-out-of-the-closet-on-homosexuality/?fbclid=IwAR2AwQSszigSnc8JOaCM22SR7A71dRxioLTrB-HgJHABm3nu06QCt6kph40

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  • July 4, 2016 at 6:01 pm#815541
    kerwin
    Participant

    Hoghead,

    If you think it is relevant then please share what you have learned about sexual orientation.

    All I know is Scripture defines homosexuality as the action or the fantasy. I am not even sure if it would actually call an individual who had homosexual fantasy a homosexual as the sin would be of the mind and the flesh. I think that at most they would call the person a homosexual of the heart or the mind. A “gay” man that was tempted to fantasize or act but did neither would not be a homosexual in any way. That sounds like it is one place the psychologists definition of sexual orientation differs from that of Scripture.

    July 5, 2016 at 6:35 am#815553
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    TO all……homesexuality is the result working of a perverted mind, they have changed the “natural” use of a women for sexual fulfillment into a perverted use, man with man or women with women, in so doing they ignore the word and actions of GOD, AND BURN IN LUST FOR EACH OTHER. TO ever accept that as “normal” behavior will only bring the wrath of God on the person or even the nation that accepts it also.

    “GAY PRIDE” WHO IN THE HELL WOULD BE “PROUD” TO BE A PERVERT?

    OUR NATION IS CALLAPSING BY EXCEPTING THESE PERVERTS AND EXCEPTING ABORITIONS AS WELL. GOD said “the leaders have “caused” my people to fail”, that is true more and more my country USA is falling into chaos, our leaders are taking the clear foundations we had of what was right and wrong and creating “gray areas” so people become confused because the “destinction” of what GOD said is right and wrong is being deluted by our leaders, our nation is increasenly suffering from more and more natural desasters as a result also. Our people needs to “flush the toilet” and get rid of the crap that has benn destroying this nation for the last 30 years, by voting them “all” out of office and get in office new leaders who will abide by GOD’S laws. IMO

    peace and love to you all and yours………gene

    July 5, 2016 at 9:48 am#815559
    kerwin
    Participant

    Hoghead1,

    Actually not human being except Jesus would be on my Christmas card list if I was to judge them by their human failings. I could even send myself a card.

    Actually I understood that the small board of astronomers were trying to find a definition of planet that would not include so many planetary bodies they decided were not planets while including the ones called the wandering stars. Though such standards are not science in their own right they are part of the metrics that science requires to operate in. Biology has its definition of life as one. Psychology seems to have weak ones at best. Being weak they are subject to arbitrary decisions. There should have no vote about whether or no homosexuality was a mental disease but instead it should have been decided whether or not it meant the criteria of being a mental disease. Sometimes there is a yes and no case but that should be noted.

    July 5, 2016 at 10:44 am#815562
    kerwin
    Participant

    Gene,

    Pervert has more negative connotations than it did in the 1700’s as that particular passage implies anyone that sins has a perverted mind, i.e. pretty much everyone.

    Gay pride is a celebration of sin and unbelievers have been doing that since the fall. Some of our holidays have such traditions.

    July 5, 2016 at 12:07 pm#815568
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    KERWIN…..Right the word PERVERT does have a more negative connotation, then the word GAY, but those practicing it, are perverting sex from what is natural. Look sexual “lusts” can cause all kinds of pervisions, not just with homosexuals but hedersexuals also, but that should not make it exceptably behavior right? There is no sin that can not be repented of, Jesus said all mannor of sin shall be forgiven man, except blasphemy of the spirit. So all sexual sins are posible to be forgiven even for the sexual perveted upon repenteance.

    kerwin we are called to try to uphold what is right in the eyes of GOD TO ALL. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    July 5, 2016 at 12:37 pm#815570
    AndrewAD
    Participant

    Dear Gene,

    I do tend to agree about many gays being sexual perverts for their lives are ruled by sexual lusts especially among men. I’ve said I do have sympathy for some of them and think some were born that way,but I have met some nasty bad ones.And they are not all peaceful kind people like the media would like us to believe.And to all,of course I realize heteros are the same way too.

    I visited what I knew to be a gay accepting church a couple years ago and there was a dinner afterward and a man older than me who had a wife rubbed my leg under the table.I knew he was checking me out to see if I was gay.I totally ignored it and thankfully he didn’t bother me further.

    And then there was another old man there who happens to be on our city council who was talking to me,and I got the feeling he was “checking me out”. His wife stood to the side and a couple steps back with a very angry look on her face.I felt like telling her “hey don’t worry I’m not interested in your husband”.It was all so uncomfortable and I didn’t go back. These were old married men with adult children.

    I’ve met some who seem kind and peaceful and some who are just evil and gross.There’s a lot I can say and more I want to say about it but need to go now.

    July 5, 2016 at 6:05 pm#815573
    hoghead1
    Participant

    Hi, Kerwin,

    Gee,thanks for your big vote of confidence in psychology.

    July 5, 2016 at 7:13 pm#815584
    hoghead1
    Participant

    Hi, Kerwin,

    I understand Scripture defines homosexuality as a big no-no.  That isn’t the issue.  The issue is:  What biblical laws are we going to hold to and what not? Believe me, no sensible believer is going to hold to all of them, unless, of course, you are not going to eat ham and wear clothing of two different fabrics.

    July 5, 2016 at 7:16 pm#815585
    hoghead1
    Participant

    HI, Kerwin,

    Well, if you are avoiding  liberal-arts courses, then you really have no idea  what goes on in them, do you, no real idea what you are talking about? So why comment?  Also, how much real experience have you had wit  PC?

    July 5, 2016 at 7:19 pm#815586
    hoghead1
    Participant

    HI, Kerwin,

    Well, since you didn’t go to college with me, then no, you really don’t know how much PCI was taught , now do you?  Now, let me ask you another important question:  If you were me, how would you respond to the post you just sent me?

    July 6, 2016 at 11:00 pm#815625
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Well, when you are willing to sell you daughter into slavery and refuse to eat ham, then I will assume you are living Scripture to the letter, no cherry picking. But then again, both Christ and Paul seem to have done some real cherry picking on these laws. Paul dropped all the dietary laws, and eventually Peter as well.

    No cherry picking but definitely context. As time went on, God sent his son to save those under the law. He said to love God with all our heart and to love our fellow man as we love ourselves. It’s called progress, so no point in going backwards to digress in God’s plan. I am not bewitched

     

    July 6, 2016 at 11:03 pm#815626
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    hoghead you come across as a man who prides himself on his education and thinks he is an intellectual. I do not know if this is correct, but the truth is that is how you come across to me at least. I am not saying it is so, so please do not get upset if it is not true.

    July 6, 2016 at 11:17 pm#815627
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Getting back to the Trinity. Your hypothesis is that the Trinity is not to be found in Scripture. Day one, no scholar is about to buy that, as it is an absurd claim, period, end of it. The reason is that the Trinity became such a central Christian dogma precisely because it is about as biblical as you can get. I have pointed several times several key biblical passages that definitely do support it.

    I would love to see these scriptures you speak of. Please start with the best single verse that teaches the Trinity. That would be a good start.

    But please in a topic about the Trinity so we do not derail this topic.

    Put @t8 at the top of the post and I will see it in ‘Notifications > Mentions’.

    Better still setup a debate between you and me. You can start with a scripture that supposedly proves the Trinity and I will show you why it doesn’t. Then I can post a scripture that shows that the Trinity cannot be true and you can try and disprove that. We can move to the next scripture and so on. If you are interested in a debate, then go here and setup a topic and in the opening post say it is a debate between us only.

    Debates

    July 7, 2016 at 11:00 am#815645
    hoghead1
    Participant

    Hi, t8,

    I have already presented biblical passages addressing the Trinity.  Where were you then?  I do not like repeating myself.  You say you’ve studied up on the Trinity, right? OK, then you should be well aware of what passages the Trinitarians cite. Furthermore, my immediate concern here is the hateful and disrespectful way some members talk here.  I’m not abut to get into a debate with members of such a forum.  That would be a total waste of my time.

    July 7, 2016 at 11:04 am#815646
    hoghead1
    Participant

    Hi, t8,

    Yes, I am proud of my education.  I took a lot of very hard work and sacrifices.  Why shouldn’t I be proud of it?  No, I don’t think I am an intellectual, I know I am an intellectual. Do you have a problem with that?

    July 7, 2016 at 11:08 am#815647
    hoghead1
    Participant

    Hi, t8,

    So where does that put on  the question of homosexuality?

    July 7, 2016 at 12:00 pm#815656
    kerwin
    Participant

    Hoghead1,

    I do not know how you would respond to a shock and awe post but I do know colleges do teach political correctness due to the high content of high income progressives within the education filed. I also know it comes in courses that are more open to subjective opinions than the more technical courses that have been my fare. Some instructors are better that other at fighting against there own biases as are some authors of various sources. I have not been taught to detect such bias as far as I can remember.

    From what you write you seem to be vulnerable to cultural influences. It is a weakness some have while others over compensate for it.

    July 7, 2016 at 12:22 pm#815660
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Why do you think God made or allowed it so that a percentage of each species is also homosexual?

    Because man allows it is my guess. Genetics can only load the gun, but the environment coupled with decisions can pull the trigger. And why the genetic weakness, well it could actually be a strength. Perhaps it gives the recipient the ability to empathize deeply, with the downside being the ability to act out lewd acts in response to deep feelings when not aligned in truth.

    July 7, 2016 at 12:25 pm#815661
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I have already presented biblical passages addressing the Trinity. Where were you then?

    Perhaps I haven’t seen it yet. I do sometimes skim posts if I think they are ramblings or ideas that stand out as going against scripture. Perhaps that happened. I cannot remember. I have 6 new replies to answer according to the Notification tab at the top. Perhaps it is there in which case I am yet to read it.

    July 7, 2016 at 12:40 pm#815662
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yes, I am proud of my education. I took a lot of very hard work and sacrifices. Why shouldn’t I be proud of it? No, I don’t think I am an intellectual, I know I am an intellectual. Do you have a problem with that?

    My wife earned a Law degree in South America and became a top-notch lawyer. When she emigrated to New Zealand (because I am from there) she basically had earn another law degree and she persevered and again she is a top-notch lawyer. The thing is, she doesn’t blow her own trumpet neither does she hold the view that her education makes right. No, she gets cred based on her work and results. I don’t mind being proud of her and to me it is up to other people like me to shout her praises, but I don’t think praising oneself is wise.

    Albert Einstein didn’t say I have a few letters after my name, so my theories are true. He didn’t say, I went to this university so that makes me great. I doubt he said such things anyway. Instead, he is great because his ideas were revolutionary and his theories stood up. No matter if he was just a lowly patent clerk or graduated with honors we remember people for their ideas, their works, their character. God himself gives no points to people who have letters after their names, but credits them for their works.

    Likewise, if your ideas are scriptural then I will be very interested to hear them. If not, then I will use scripture to prove they do not stand. Do not be afraid of scrutiny BTW, it is there to help you. I would prefer a rebuke if it led to me embracing more truth, than respect for ideas that are false. It can be hard not to take it personally, but humility helps big time here.

    So I give no cred to men’s education apart from the fact that they worked hard and will get a job they deserve for that work and hopefully a good remuneration package as a result. Outside of that, it is your ideas, advice, works, and care for others that will give me respect toward you. Of course it may lead to a lack of respect too if I do not see much godly merit to your contributions. But I always give people the benefit of the doubt till they prove to me time and time again that they are seriously lacking.

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