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The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father

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Glory of God

The Trinity Doctrine is so preposterous that it contradicts the most basic and simple truths in scripture and causes much confusion and unnecessary division.

For example, the Holy Spirit came to Mary instead of Mary’s husband Joseph. Thus is the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus, or is the Father? Explain that one with the confusing dogma of the Trinity.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of the Father and is not another person, nor an equal partner of a triune God.

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  • November 18, 2013 at 10:18 pm#778882
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Three Personalities in the Same Passage

    In the Hebrew Scriptures you will also find all three personalities of the Godhead referred to in single passages. Two examples are Isaiah 48:12-16 and 63:7-14.

    Because of the significance of the first passage, it will be quoted:

    “Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand up together. All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; he shall do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper. Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit have sent Me.”

    It should be noted that the speaker refers to himself as the one who is responsible for the creation of the heavens and the earth. It is clear that he cannot be speaking of anyone other than God. But then in verse 16, the speaker refers to himself using the pronouns of “I” and “me” and then distinguishes himself from two other personalities. He distinguishes himself from the Lord YHVH and then from the Spirit of God. Here is the Tri-unity as clearly defined as the Hebrew Scriptures make it.

    November 18, 2013 at 10:18 pm#778883
    Admin
    Keymaster

    The Spirit of God does not contradict scripture or change its meaning. I don’t accept your argument that the Spirit changes the words of scripture.

    Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.

    Being born-again does not change this for “the only true God, The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”. If you think it does, then I would question the spirit that is telling you that.

    November 18, 2013 at 10:22 pm#778884
    DavidL
    Participant

    Conclusion
    –
    The teaching of the Hebrew Scriptures, then is that there is a plurality of the Godhead. The first person is consistently called YHVH, while the second person is given the names of YHVH, the Angel of YHVH and the Servant of YHVH. Consistently and without fail, the second person is sent by the first person. The third person is referred to as the Spirit of YHVH or the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit. He, too, is sent by the first person but is continually related to the ministry of the second person.
    –
    This is not ‘argument’ – just the testimony of Scripture….something you seem afraid of..!

    November 18, 2013 at 10:30 pm#778885
    Admin
    Keymaster

    It is simple DavidL.

    The angel of YHWH is the ANGEL of YHWH. YHWH is not an angel.

    And because the angel is sent by God, then it is God that the person is dealing with because God sent him.

    Remember God is invisible and is eternal and not confined to a body. Thus dealing with God will always be through an agent. The primary agency of God is Jesus who is the image of the invisible God. And yes, Jesus may well be that angel of YHWH. But YHWH is not that angel/messenger.

    November 18, 2013 at 10:33 pm#778886
    Admin
    Keymaster

    It is simple DavidL.

    The angel of YHWH is the ANGEL of YHWH. YHWH is not an angel.

    And because the angel is sent by God, then it is God that the person is dealing with because God sent that angel.

    Remember God is invisible and is eternal and not confined to a body. Thus dealing with God will always be through an agent. The primary agency of God is Jesus who is the image of the invisible God. And yes, Jesus may well be that angel of YHWH. But YHWH is not that angel/messenger, but is in that angel/messenger.

    November 18, 2013 at 11:29 pm#778887
    DavidL
    Participant

    The Angel of YHVH.
    This individual is always considered distinct from all other angels and is unique. In almost every passage where he is found he is referred to as both the Angel of YHVH and YHVH himself. For instance in Genesis 16:7 he is referred to as the Angel of YHVH, but then in 16:13 as YHVH himself. In Genesis 22:11 he is the Angel of YHVH, but God himself in 22:12. Other examples could be given.

    November 19, 2013 at 12:09 am#778888
    Admin
    Keymaster

    It is simple DavidL.

    The angel of YHWH is the ANGEL of YHWH. YHWH is not an angel.

    And because the angel is sent by God, then it is God in that the person is dealing with because God sent that angel.

    Remember God is invisible and is eternal and not confined to a body. Thus dealing with God will always be through an agent. The primary agency of God is Jesus who is the image of the invisible God. And yes, Jesus may well be that angel of YHWH. But YHWH is not that angel/messenger, but is in that angel/messenger.

    January 1, 2014 at 11:49 pm#778889
    tom
    Participant

    I too have been obsessed with finding the truth with the Trinity. More and more I read I am finding the truth of the Trinity false. But, I do have a question for you that I don’t understand. If Jesus is begotten and not created in your above statement how did he become? The Trinity says he has always existed and the others say he was created directly by God. What does scripture say? Please, no word games.
    Tom

    January 3, 2014 at 5:12 pm#778890
    DavidL
    Participant

    Hey Tom – all I can say is be careful what you read, the teachings of man will only beguile you…rely on the Spirit and He will open the Scriptures to you (that is why He was sent)…
    –
    “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come.” – John 16:13
    –
    “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” – John 14:26
    –
    “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.”
    – 1 Timothy 4:1
    –
    “But you are not like that, for the Holy One has given you His Spirit, and all of you know the truth.” – 1 John 2:20

    January 3, 2014 at 5:36 pm#778891
    DavidL
    Participant

    men give you their understanding of doctrine – the Holy Spirit gives you Truth…
    –
    We live in the days of great deception, that immediately precede the time of greatest deception – Antichrist..!! The Christian ‘Laodicean’ church is spiritually blind and unaware of her blindness…oblivious to her own spiritual poverty…we MUST rely on God alone to be our strength and our guide..
    –
    These are days when our faith MUST be founded on the ‘revelation’ that the Spirit gives…NOT on the logical conclusions of misguided teachers…
    Blessings..!!

    January 3, 2014 at 11:10 pm#778892
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Creation is defined as that which God makes through the Word.

    Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

    So as the son of God and the Word of God, Jesus the messiah stands in the unique position between God and creation. He was born or came from God, and partook of creation in that he came in the flesh for a time, but is now back with God in the glory that he had with him before the world began. We too are invited to be born from above and to be sons of God to rule with him.

    “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”

    The second century fathers tackled your very question. Their view was that God was alone, and the Word as an attribute of God was expressed and given birth similar in fashion to a torch (fire) that produces another torch (fire) and not diminishing from God the Word from whom it originated. Perhaps these guys thought too hard about this but they drew upon Wisdom who was the first to be with God who was God’s craftsman who was begotten and at his side. They then looked at John 1:1 and other scriptures to conclude their view on this.

    It is clear that whatever we believe, scripture is clear that Jesus is unique. He is clearly not God himself but at God’s right hand side. It is written that he existed in the form of God, thus his nature was divine, he emptied himself, came in the flesh, died for humanity, rose from the dead, and is at the right hand of God now where he was before in the glory that he had with God before. And we are told that we now can partake of divine nature and that our humble bodies will become like a body that he has. He calls us brothers, and God is our Father. This is not open to change.

    The divine order we are shown is this. God > Christ > Man > Woman
    The woman came from the man, the man came from Christ as all things were created through him, and Christ came from God. As it is written, the head of the woman is the man, the head of the man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God.

    To put it simply, Jesus is the only begotten. He was begotten before all eternity. He was the first to be with God. He is the first-born of all creation. And because of this, he is the image of the invisible God.

    If he is the first, and there was only God, then he came from God and must be like God. For what other nature was there from whence Jesus came? He came from God before time and space. And John declares that he is the only one to see God and to declare him.

    “No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”.

    Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.

    Finally, beware of those who would draw you away from Christ and from simplicity in Christ. These people have agendas and are not afraid to twist the words of Jesus to support their views.

    January 6, 2014 at 5:07 pm#778893
    tom
    Participant

    Thanks for your reply David. I have always been careful speaking with people and reading things on the internet. But, my question to you is was Jesus God’s first creation before all things were created? You said in your above statement Jesus was begotten. That’s right. But, you said too he wasn’t created. Which is it? He’s either created or not. Please explain. I’ve never understood the Trinity and questioned it ever since my childhood. You and I sound like we are alike in our beliefs. I have read several of your writings and enjoyed your view points.
    Tom

    January 6, 2014 at 5:17 pm#778894
    tom
    Participant

    Hi David. Sorry for the last reply. I think you answered my question. I’m still trying to get use to navigating your website.
    Tom

    January 6, 2014 at 5:26 pm#778895
    tom
    Participant

    That was an excellent reply David. Thank you very much. Sorry for that one last reply. I didn’t see that you did answer my question. It sounds like you and I are alike in our beliefs. I can’t wait to read more of your writings on your site.
    Tom

    January 7, 2014 at 4:14 am#778896
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Are you talking to t8 or DavidL in your last post.
    🙂

    January 7, 2014 at 11:03 am#778897
    tom
    Participant

    I’m so sorry. I’m speaking to t8. I’m still trying to get use to posting on this site. Thank you for your above comment. It cleared up a lot of confusion I had about the Trinity.
    Tom

    January 7, 2014 at 11:18 am#778898
    Admin
    Keymaster

    Cheers Tom.

    Blessings in Jesus name.

    January 27, 2014 at 9:52 am#778899
    MissK
    Participant

    I needed to read this, had stumbled across a sermon today that mentioned the trinity was false, it can get overwhelming being so new in the walk trying to seek truth in such short time, but something must be guiding me as Im finding Im crossing much errors of mans doctrines, this was one of them, still trying to wrap my head around this, thanks for the posting, really needed this 🙂

    January 27, 2014 at 10:08 am#778900
    Admin
    Keymaster

    It’s a priviledge to be of service.
    For more info you could try this page.

    Who is the Most High God? – The Trinity Doctrine

    🙂

    January 31, 2014 at 12:51 am#778901
    MissK
    Participant

    Due to some conviction, I do feel the Godhead (trinity) is still alive. We have to be really careful when questioning the holy spirit as this can be blasphemous, and a sin that isn’t forgiven, fast and pray heavily about this subject. From a message I heard yesterday, God will in fact test us, to see if we will follow truth or the lie. I can see how people can interpret scripture differently, but this could also be the enemy twisting scripture to make us fall. Jesus does say clearly that if you have seen him you have seen the father. Even though he is begotten, he is the manifestation of the invisible God in flesh, im going to be careful on this subject and continue to pray for guidance and truth, it does make sense the Godhead is made up of the father, the son (which is the word) and the holy spirit, also a few verses:

    shortly before Jesus is arrested he tells his disciples that “If you really knew me you would know my Father as well. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
    (John. 14:7)
    But Philip’s response again shows a lack of faith when he asks “Lord show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus sternly rebukes him and says “Philip, don’t you know me, even after I have been with you for such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.”
    (Jn. 14:8-9)

    I think we all have to pray and fast heavily with subjects like this to make sure we don’t fall victim to the enemy, even though I felt confusion on this subject of late, due to conviction I have decided to believe what I originally felt, the Godhead is real, I do in fact believe I was tested, Guys this road is so narrow, we must be really careful we don’t blaspheme against the holy spirit, pray and fast for truth and that we are counted worthy that we are spared from temptation in the last hour, follow the commandments too.
    Lots of love

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