Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

Participant

read nick. do not explain
read that God said that you became Christ at the jordan river.

and ill read that before the jordan river, he is already christ.

March 21, 2012 at 4:42 am#286493

Participant

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the mind of the writer says that the father is the true GOD
the son is also called the true GOD.

believe it or not.

no verse that says that christ is not GOD.

you cant read any verse in the bible that christ said “i am NOT GOD”

what we can read is Christ is GOD! truly GOD! he became flesh!

Jammin, The BURDEN OF PROOF lies with you.

If I said Santa exists, and you said: “No, he doesn't,” it wouldn't be up to you to prove he doesn't exist. It would be up to me to prove that he does.

I don't have to find a verse that says: “I am not God.”

If you are arguing that Christ is God BECAUSE there is no verse that says “I am not God” then you are basing your belief on an extremely weak proof.

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the mind of the writer says that the father is the true GOD
the son is also called the true GOD.

Where? Where is the son called the “true God.” That's what you are trying to prove. The fact is, as I've said, this verse in ambigous. It can be understood in more than one way.

That's why this verse is extremely weak as proof of anything.
And the fact that Jesus didn't say: “I am not God” is even weaker proof of anything. He also didn't say: “I am not [insert just about anything]” Yet, that isn't proof that he is “just about anything.”

March 21, 2012 at 4:44 am#286494

Participant

As I said before,

I'm not trying to disprove or prove anything here.

I know that cannot be done either way with this scripture.

I am merely pointing out that this is a bad scripture to base something like this on, since it can so easily be understood in more than one way.

“We are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. THIS is the true God and life everlasting.”

Who is “THIS” referring to?

You think that the demonstrative pronoun “this” (hou′tos) refers to its immediate antecedent, Jesus Christ.

But some believe that the most natural reference of hou′tos is to the subject not locally nearest but dominant in the mind of the apostle–God.

Haupt makes a good point: “A testimony to the one true God seems more in harmony with the final warning against idols than a demonstration of the divinity of Christ.”

Even A Grammatical Analysis of the Greek New Testament, published by Rome’s Pontifical Biblical Institute, states: “[Hou′tos]: as a climax to [verses] 18-20 the ref[erence] is almost certainly to God the real, the true, [in] opp[osition to] paganism (v. 21).”

Often hou′tos, generally translated “this” or “this one,” does not refer to the immediately preceding subject of a phrase. Other scriptures illustrate the point. At 2 John 7, the same apostle and penman of the first letter wrote: “Many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This [hou′tos′] is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Here the pronoun cannot refer to the closest antecedent—Jesus. Obviously, “this” refers to those who denied Jesus. They collectively are “the deceiver and the antichrist.”

The apostle John wrote: “Andrew the brother of Simon Peter was one of the two that heard what John said and followed Jesus. First this one [hou′tos] found his own brother, Simon.” (John 1:40, 41) It is evident that “this one” refers, not to the last person mentioned, but to Andrew. At 1 John 2:22, the apostle uses the same pronoun in a similar way.

Luke makes similar use of the pronoun, as seen at Acts 4:10, 11: “In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you impaled but whom God raised up from the dead, by this one does this man stand here sound in front of you. This [hou′tos′] is ‘the stone that was treated by you builders as of no account that has become the head of the corner.’” The pronoun “this” clearly does not refer to the man who was healed, though he is the one mentioned just before hou′tos. Certainly, “this” in verse 11 refers to Jesus Christ the Nazarene, who is the “cornerstone” on which the Christian congregation is founded.—Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:4-8.
Acts 7:18, 19 also illustrates the point: “There rose a different king over Egypt, who did not know of Joseph. This one [hou′tos] used statecraft against our race.” “This one” who oppressed the Jews was, not Joseph, but Pharaoh, the king of Egypt.

Such passages confirm the observation made by Greek scholar Daniel Wallace, who says that for Greek demonstratives, “what might be the nearest antecedent contextually might not be the nearest antecedent in the author’s mind.”

SO, IT DOESN'T MATTER that the name Jesus was closest to the “this.” It matters what was on the mind of the writer.

It's YOUR OPINION that the 'this' refers to Jesus. But if you look at the Greek, it could be referring to God, the Father.

So again, simply repeating your opinion does not prove anything.

March 21, 2012 at 4:47 am#286495

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,16:39)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,16:18)

Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:44)

Quote

Christ means son of GOD!

No.

christ (from Greek) or messiah (from heb) both mean “anointed one.” These words are used for others who are anointed in the Bible. And often, it is just translated “anointed one.”

yes christ means anointed.

but it also means SON OF GOD!

mat 16.16
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ. You are the Son of the living God.”

Um, no.

it definitely means “anointed one.”

I could show you tons of scriptures that quote a list of titles. It doesn't mean the second and third titles are definitions of the first title.

“And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”
This is a bad example, but I know there are examples that mirror Mt 16:16.

Sometimes, we are just given a list of titles of someone. Just because they are connected in a sentence does not make them the same.

Others have tried to point this out. It seems so obvious. Check any dictionary. Christ mean 'anointed one.'

As well, just because we are told that Jesus was the Christ and the Son of God does not mean that Christ means the son of God.

“Nick is a moderator, a doctor.”

This does not mean that moderator means doctor. It means that I'm telling you nick is one of the moderators on here and also a doctor.

March 21, 2012 at 4:48 am#286496

Participant

QUESTION:

Where in 1 John 5:20 are we told that Christ is God?

March 21, 2012 at 4:59 am#286497

Participant

the apple is green. it is so delicious.

1 John 5:20

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

20We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

better luck next time boy

March 21, 2012 at 5:43 am#286504

Participant

Hi Jammin,
Acts 10.38

March 21, 2012 at 5:44 am#286505

Participant

Hi Jammin,
When was Jesus anointed?
Why would God need to be anointed, by God??

March 21, 2012 at 6:00 am#286506

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,15:59)

the apple is green. it is so delicious.

1 John 5:20

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

better luck next time boy

Wow?

I can do that too. Watch:

We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we now the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This God the Father is the real God and eternal life.

The fact that your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” a second time proves no more than me inserting “God the Father.”

You do get that, right?

I mean, you do know that they inserted that second “Jesus Christ” in there, don't you?

The part you made bold…apparently that is your evidence. The problem is, the part that matters in the part you made bold: IT WAS ADDED!

jammin,
–You don't seem to understand burden of proof.
–You don't seem to know that your main arguments is based not on what the Bible said, but on something that someone added.
–You also somehow don't understand that “Christ” means anointed one.
–Nor do you understand that when a list of titles are presented, they do not necessitate that the second title is the definition of the first title.
–Nor do you understand respect, which is odd given how little you yourself know.

March 21, 2012 at 6:45 am#286516

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 05 2012,12:18)

i repeat again

where can you read in 1 john 5.20 that john says that Christ is not the true GOD?

You have repeated this question several times.

Its seems you are making a point of saying that this verse doesn't say that Christ isn't God, and therefore Christ is God.

I really think you should study burden of proof.

Since you are making the assertion that this verse proves that Christ is God, it seems it would be up to you to attempt to prove that in some way.

March 21, 2012 at 7:42 am#286518

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 21 2012,17:00)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 21 2012,15:59)

the apple is green. it is so delicious.

1 John 5:20

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

better luck next time boy

Wow?

I can do that too. Watch:

The fact that your Bible inserts the words “Jesus Christ” a second time proves no more than me inserting “God the Father.”

You do get that, right?

I mean, you do know that they inserted that second “Jesus Christ” in there, don't you?

The part you made bold…apparently that is your evidence. The problem is, the part that matters in the part you made bold: IT WAS ADDED!

then make your own version
hahaha

March 21, 2012 at 7:43 am#286519

Participant

bec the translation does not support your belief you will ignore it.

give me any single translation that says that Christ is not called the true GOD.

that is your assingment boy.

March 21, 2012 at 7:44 am#286520

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 21 2012,16:44)

Hi Jammin,
When was Jesus anointed?
Why would God need to be anointed, by God??

that is not the topic here. make your own thread boy

March 21, 2012 at 7:54 am#286523

Participant

Hi Jammin,
Unless you can chant your mantra you will not dialogue?
Why is your place so insecure?

You would not need to cling to two verses like a drowning swimmer clings to his lifebelt if the Son set you free.

March 21, 2012 at 8:31 am#286526

Participant

make your own thread nick and we will discuss your questions

March 21, 2012 at 8:41 am#286530

Participant

Hi Jammin,
Truth does not belong to you.
You seem to have a very limited grasp of it.
So why do you try to diminish others who know more and love scripture more?

March 21, 2012 at 9:18 am#286534