Does 1 John 5:20 call Jesus the true God?

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,14:46)

Hi Jammin,
Yes you should be in the Son and then you too can know his God.
The Son is not his own father.

did i say that the son is also the father?

i said the SON is GOD!

the father and the son have the same nature, GOD!

March 20, 2012 at 4:28 am#286189

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:19)

Hi ED,
So Christ in the sons of God is still baptising folk into the Kingdom and giving them of His Spirit.
Unless you have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.[Rom8]

Hi Nick,

Not sure what your getting at here?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2012 at 4:28 am#286190

Participant

edj

the meaning of “christ” is not GOD
i already answered your questions but you are not reading it well

Christ means son of GOD!

now,
is Christ GOD? of course!
the father and the son have the same nature, GOD!

Christ is truly GOD!

1 John 5:20

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

20We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

March 20, 2012 at 4:33 am#286196

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:20)

Hi Ed,
Jesus was baptised in water and the Spirit at the Jordan.

Hi Nick,

Your wording is fuzzy again; rather than just say No, I'll fix it so I can say Yes.
Jesus was baptized in water and [received] the Spirit at the Jordan [river]. …yes, that is what Scripture tells us.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2012 at 4:35 am#286199

NickHassan

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:19)

Hi ED,
So Christ in the sons of God is still baptising folk into the Kingdom and giving them of His Spirit.
Unless you have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.[Rom8]

Hi Nick,

Not sure what your getting at here?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,
” Jn3
“Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”

March 20, 2012 at 4:39 am#286202

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 17 2012,14:47)

Hi Jammin,

Are you saying (both 1 and 2)?
1. Christ means(?) “God”? and
2. Christ means(?) “Son of God”?

God bless
Ed J

Hi Jammin,

So you say “No” to #1, and “Yes” to #2; right? <– Please answer

I ask because I want to be certain what you believe,
so that there is no miscommunication between us; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2012 at 4:40 am#286204

NickHassan

Participant

Hi Ed,
Acts 11.15f
” And the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon at the beginning.. And I remmbered the word of the Lord, how he used to say
'John baptised with water , but you will be baptised with the Holy Spirit”

March 20, 2012 at 4:44 am#286206

Participant

Quote

Christ means son of GOD!

No.

christ (from Greek) or messiah (from heb) both mean “anointed one.” These words are used for others who are anointed in the Bible. And often, it is just translated “anointed one.”

March 20, 2012 at 4:48 am#286208

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:35)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:28)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:19)

Hi ED,
So Christ in the sons of God is still baptising folk into the Kingdom and giving them of His Spirit.
Unless you have the Spirit of Christ you are none of his.[Rom8]

Hi Nick,

Not sure what your getting at here?

God bless
Ed J

Hi Ed,
” Jn3
“Unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”

Hi Nick,

I have lined up these two verses so that you can “SEE” what Jesus is saying.
Remember: Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God!

John 3:5 Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2012 at 4:52 am#286209

Participant

From the Greek, it seems to break down like this:

1 John 5:20

We have known but that the Son of the God is come and he has given to us mental perception in order that we are knowing the true (one) and we are in the true (one) in the Son of him to Jesus Christ This (one) is the true God and life everlasting

It bugs me a little that these verses are always the ones that can so easily be understood in 2 completely different ways.

Is Jesus the true one?
Or did Jesus give us the ability to know the true one (God)?

This verse really comes down to who you think the true one is. If you think it's Jesus, then this is proof that Jesus is God.
If you think it's saying that Jesus told us who the true one (God) is, then this verse is saying that this true one (God) is the true God and life everlasting.

So, it's not great proof for anything. Of course, we can find Bible translations that we prefer that make the interpretation lean one way or the other. But that is not proof of anything.

March 20, 2012 at 4:57 am#286210

Participant

Quote

as we can see in john 1.1, john says he is GOD!

Except, Greek has no indefinite articles (“a”). So, in the Bible in English, we add the “a” in there thousands of times in front of the word “God” where needed.

Might John 1:1 be a case where this applies?

It was translated from Greek (which has no indefinite article) into other languages such as Latin, syriac, aramaic (which also have no indefinite article.)

But around 1500, it was translated into English which does have the indefinite article. Those first English Bibles did not translate it with an indefinite article. (But then again, people were being burned at the stake for less.)

What people don't know:
1300 years before those English translations began, it was translated into Coptic, which like English does have the indefinite article in it's language.

And so how did those Coptic translators, who lived at a time when koine Greek was still spoken and at a time when they definitely understood it…how did they translate John 1:1c?

This way: “a god.”

Coptic was a language of the Egyptians, but using the Greek alphabet (and a couple extra letters), so they lived at that time and were familiar with the grammar of that time.

It doesn't prove anything one way or another, but it is extremely interesting that the first people who had the option of including the indefinite article “a” (and the people who actually lived back then as well) did in fact include the “a.”

david

March 20, 2012 at 5:03 am#286215

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 20 2012,15:40)

Hi Nick, now I see where you going.

In Acts 10:43-47, you “should” be able to see
that water baptism is UNNECESSARY. (1Cor.1:14-16)
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through
his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 10:44-47 While Peter yet spake these words, the HolySpirit fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles
also was poured out the gift of the HolySpirit. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the HolySpirit as well as we?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2012 at 5:05 am#286217

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:52)

From the Greek, it seems to break down like this:

1 John 5:20

It bugs me a little that these verses are always the ones that can so easily be understood in 2 completely different ways.

Is Jesus the true one?
Or did Jesus give us the ability to know the true one (God)?

So, it's not great proof for anything. Of course, we can find Bible translations that we prefer that make the interpretation lean one way or the other. But that is not proof of anything.

Hi David,

It's God's Spirit that gives us life everlasting right?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2012 at 5:18 am#286221

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:44)

Quote

Christ means son of GOD!

No.

christ (from Greek) or messiah (from heb) both mean “anointed one.” These words are used for others who are anointed in the Bible. And often, it is just translated “anointed one.”

yes christ means anointed.

but it also means SON OF GOD!

mat 16.16
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ. You are the Son of the living God.”

March 20, 2012 at 5:20 am#286223

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:39)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,15:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 17 2012,14:47)

Hi Jammin,

Are you saying (both 1 and 2)?
1. Christ means(?) “God”? and
2. Christ means(?) “Son of God”?

God bless
Ed J

Hi Jammin,

So you say “No” to #1, and “Yes” to #2; right? <– Please answer

I ask because I want to be certain what you believe,
so that there is no miscommunication between us; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

you dont believe that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1

so we have a different belief.

1. no
2. yes

March 20, 2012 at 5:22 am#286224

Participant

Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:52)

From the Greek, it seems to break down like this:

1 John 5:20

It bugs me a little that these verses are always the ones that can so easily be understood in 2 completely different ways.

Is Jesus the true one?
Or did Jesus give us the ability to know the true one (God)?

So, it's not great proof for anything. Of course, we can find Bible translations that we prefer that make the interpretation lean one way or the other. But that is not proof of anything.

even if you post greek translation here.
it does not prove that Christ is not the true in 1 john 5.20

what we can read is that the father is the true GOD
Christ is also the True GOD!

means they have same nature, GOD!

Christ is GOD!
1 John 5:20

20 We also know that the Son of God has come. He has given us understanding. Now we can know the One who is true. And we belong to the One who is true. We also belong to his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God. He is eternal life.

March 20, 2012 at 5:29 am#286228

NickHassan

Participant

Hi Jammin,
Yes our hope is to be joined with Jesus Christ and God in the One Spirit.

March 20, 2012 at 5:36 am#286231

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,16:20)

you dont believe that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1
so we have a different belief.

Hi Jammin, thanks for clarifying your position!

Yes, but that is what we are here to do. Enlighten,
and discuss scripture in a Christian manor; don't you agree?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 20, 2012 at 5:39 am#286232

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 20 2012,16:18)

Quote (david @ Mar. 20 2012,15:44)

Quote

Christ means son of GOD!

No.

christ (from Greek) or messiah (from heb) both mean “anointed one.” These words are used for others who are anointed in the Bible. And often, it is just translated “anointed one.”

yes christ means anointed.

but it also means SON OF GOD!

mat 16.16
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ. You are the Son of the living God.”

Um, no.

it definitely means “anointed one.”

I could show you tons of scriptures that quote a list of titles. It doesn't mean the second and third titles are definitions of the first title.

“And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.”
This is a bad example, but I know there are examples that mirror Mt 16:16.

Sometimes, we are just given a list of titles of someone. Just because they are connected in a sentence does not make them the same.

March 20, 2012 at 5:52 am#286234