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Jesus is either one or the other, but not both

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  • December 8, 2020 at 8:46 am#868030
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @t8

    The Bible calls Jesus “only begotten“. I’ll stick with the Bible!

    December 8, 2020 at 11:51 am#868038
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Good call Danny.

    December 9, 2020 at 7:24 am#868050
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @t8

    Jesus has the same exact nature as his Father.

    He is not an inferior being to his Father any more than we are inferior beings to our parents.

    I really hope that you will understand. Thank you for your time and goodbye.

     

     

     

    December 9, 2020 at 8:21 am#868055
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Danny. We are inferior to Jesus, yet he calls us brothers and we get a body and nature like his.

    Clearly we cannot claim to be equal in rank to the son despite having the same nature right?

    Likewise with God. You cannot claim that Jesus is equal in rank with the Most High God.

    And in case you had any doubt, Jesus himself told us that the Father was greater than himself.

    “You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

    A simple look at the meaning of Father compared with Son or Brother would be enough to work it out.

    December 11, 2020 at 6:44 am#868095
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @t8

    I have to respond to your falsehood.
    You always attack strawman. We already talked about headship.
    I don’t know how many times do I have to repeat. Ok, let’s try it one more time:
    The head of the woman is man. Does this mean that the husband is a superior being to his wife?
    The answer is obviously, “No.” The husband is greater than his wife by way of position but not by nature.
    The same applies to the Father and the Son. The Father is greater by position, but not better by nature.
    You already agreed with me on that. Ok. But you still insist that Jesus is just a god?
    That doesn’t work. Whether you like it or not. That doesn’t work.
    Bow down before Jesus Christ your God!

    December 11, 2020 at 8:44 pm#868098
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Bow down before Jesus Christ your God!

    Finally, you coughed it out and you are wrong. And I can prove it with one hand tied behind my back. I have the luxury of many scriptures to draw upon. So here is a taster.

    Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
    He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

    For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

    I believe scripture over any man Danny. Simple as that.

    December 11, 2020 at 8:55 pm#868100
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    Is Jehovah, our righteousness just a god or is Jehovah, our righteousness, your God?

    What do you say?

    LU

    December 11, 2020 at 9:05 pm#868102
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Both are true. If you are the God, you are also a god. So of all that are called gods, there is one who is the Most High. He is in reality the only God when you consider that there is no other God above him.

    December 11, 2020 at 9:07 pm#868104
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    It’s like football. There is one GOAT (greatest of all time).

    I believe the goat is Lionel Messi.

    He is the greatest and by that definition, it means he is also great. And there are many that are great.

    December 11, 2020 at 9:13 pm#868105
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    So would you say that the Father and Jesus are your God?

    LU

    December 11, 2020 at 9:17 pm#868106
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I use the word God to mean the Most High or Father as does scripture most of the time.

    Sometimes God is used in other ways. Such as narrowing down the options. For example:

    ‘The god of this age.’ Or, ‘You are gods’. While the words here are theos, it matters what you are the god / theos of. Same goes for Lord. Are you the Lord of Coventry or the Lord of God’s creation. Further, is the word being used with the definite article.

    Look at the word angel with or without the definite article and see how the meaning is different.

    ‘You are an angel.’

    ‘You are the angel.’

    One is qualifying and the other is identifying.

    This is in a nutshell is why people fall for the Trinity of Binity doctrines. They do not understand the difference between identity and nature. So they bundle Jesus with God because of divine nature. I have said this for many years and it always comes back to this with those who do not understand.

    December 11, 2020 at 9:22 pm#868107
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    Do you believe Jehovah is the Most High God?

    LU

    December 11, 2020 at 9:24 pm#868108
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    YHWH is one of the names or titles for the Most High I believe.

    December 11, 2020 at 9:33 pm#868109
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    Thanks for that answer. Do you believe that YHWH (the Most High God) is both God of gods and Lord of lords?

    LU

    December 11, 2020 at 9:43 pm#868110
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    I see where you are going with this. Yes he is God of gods. Lord of Lords, yes. But here’s the thing.

    God is light.

    Jesus is the light of this world.

    We are the light of this world.

    See that.

    Just because God is light or God is a Spirit, or God is divine, you cannot then apply all who are spirit, light, or divine as God too.

    Further, the meaning of Lord is often confused. YHWH is often translated as LORD. But scripture says that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ. And we are told that there is one God, the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.

    People get all muddled up with YHWH, theos and kurious (LORD, God and Lord). But context is very important.

    You could be the most high Lord in England for example.

    Satan is the theos of this world / age and had minions. Thus he would technically be the most high theos of this world considering he has princes or gods underneath him.

    But when all is considered, there is one most High God and One who is made Lord over all.

    Think of Pharaoh and Joseph. Pharaoh made Joseph the most high after himself. So he was made Lord of the Pharaoh’s kingdom. But the Pharaoh still had authority over Joseph and could remove this authority from Joseph.

    Of course we know that even this is not quite the full picture because God has the last say and could have elevated Joseph and deposed Pharaoh.

    “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

    December 11, 2020 at 9:55 pm#868111
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    To put it simply:

    God is light. Light is not God.

    God is spirit. Spirit is not God.

    December 11, 2020 at 10:02 pm#868112
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    Do you believe that YHWH, our righteousness is the Lord of all heaven and earth or just Lord of the earth?

    December 11, 2020 at 10:10 pm#868113
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    You should be able to answer that for yourself as to what I believe as I have given you enough information. If God is God of all, then he is God of earth and heaven, Not to be confused with this world however. If you love the world, the love of God is not in you. The world and the earth are not the same. The world is the age. There are many ages or worlds. But there are only two earths.

    December 11, 2020 at 10:41 pm#868118
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Proclaimer,

    it appears that you believe that YHWH, our righteousness is the Lord of heaven and earth.

    Correct?

    LU

    December 12, 2020 at 12:13 am#868120
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    If  YHWH our righteousness is the name of another person then no.

    But YHWH, yes.

    People have all kinds of names that include God.

    Isabella, a variation of Elizabeth, is the top girl name meaning God. Along with Isabella, girl names in the US Top 1000 meaning God include Elizabeth, Danielle, Gabrielle, Samantha, Michaela, and Jane.

    Elizabeth and Jane have dozens of popular variations that also mean God, including Elsie, Eliza, Elise, Janet, Jean, and Joan.

    Elijah is the most popular boy name that means God. Along with Elijah, other boy names meaning God in the US Top 1000 include Daniel, Matthew, Jack, Jeremy, Nathaniel, Caleb, Samuel, Oscar, and Shane.

    John and Michael, two of the most widely-used male names of the last several centuries in the Western World, have God in their meanings.

    https://nameberry.com/baby-names/913/names-that-mean-god

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