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Did Jesus Christ exist before his birth on Earth?

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Baby Jesus

It seems that most who call themselves Christian belong to one of two camps. Jesus is either God or a mere created man. This debate has been raging since the days of Athanasius of Alexandria and Arius.

What the does the Bible say? Well it is quite clear on who Jesus is and his origin. Let’s take a look at what is written.

Scripture says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and when Jesus returns, his name is called ‘The Word of God’.  (John 1 & Revelation 19:13)

It says that God created all things through THE WORD and nothing was created without him. (John 1:3)

It says that the universe was created through THE SON and he is before all things. (Colossians 1:15-17)

It says that all things were created through JESUS CHRIST. (Hebrews 2:9)

This is what the Bible says about Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, the one named: ‘The Word of God’ who was with God in the beginning.

He emptied himself, took upon himself our nature, was obedient to his God and our God, died for our sins as it is written, and is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.

Jesus is not God in the flesh, rather the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. He was with God in the beginning. He was the first to be with God.

  • This topic has 25,959 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by Keith.
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    Posts
  • April 29, 2007 at 12:45 am#50885
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Tim2 @ April 29 2007,10:21)
    Hi Oxy,

    Seems like you're close to the Trinity doctrine.  Why don't you just accept the conclusions of the church that have been accepted for 1500 years?

    Tim


    Meaning?

    April 29, 2007 at 12:52 am#50887
    Tim2
    Participant

    The three ecumenical creeds

    http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html

    April 29, 2007 at 2:14 am#50890
    942767
    Participant

    Hi CB:

    You say:
    The Bible says that there are three deities. Believe the Bible!

    And my bible says:

    4:6
    One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    And also,

    1Ti 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Are these verses of scripture in your bible?

    God Bless

    April 29, 2007 at 5:13 am#50894
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Tim2 @ April 29 2007,12:52)
    The three ecumenical creeds

    http://www.reformed.org/documents/index.html


    Far out, that's NOT the God I worship!

    April 29, 2007 at 9:16 am#50912
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hush oxy,
    The first law of trinitarianism is to agree and to pretend unity and to oppose those who put scripture first. Do not speak either of the bitter hatred that has led to mass murder among the denominations.

    April 29, 2007 at 9:53 am#50914
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 29 2007,21:16)
    Hush oxy,
    The first law of trinitarianism is to agree and to pretend unity and to oppose those who put scripture first. Do not speak either of the bitter hatred that has led to mass murder among the denominations.


    lol please forgive me Nick, I know not what I do.. hehehe

    April 29, 2007 at 12:20 pm#50916
    Cult Buster
    Participant

    942767

    Quote
    4:6
    One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    And also,

    1Ti 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Look!
    Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    It seems that you have a problem here 94, because Jesus The Mighty God is referred to here as The everlasting Father.

    One God means one Godhead. The Godhead is our Father, so is each Person within, though One holds the “office” of “The Father”.

    There is one Godhead, and one mediator between the Godhead and men.   Jesus Christ our mediator, was incarnate as a man yet He was still God.

    Open your eyes and look!  :O

    JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    TITUS 2:13 ..awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

    JOHN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    JOHN 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

    Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    PHILIPPIANS 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    COLOSSIANS 2:9-10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    1 TIMOTHY 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    Compare
    Psa 41:13  Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
    With
    MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.

    Compare
    1 CHRONICLES 28:9 . . . the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts:
    With
    MATTHEW 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
    MATTHEW 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, . . .
    REVELATION 2:23 . . . I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: . . .

    Compare
    Isa 40:3  The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
    With (John the Baptist referring to Jesus)
    Mat 3:3  For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

    Compare1Sa 2:2  There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
    With
    1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    Compare
    Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
    With
    Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
    Joh 18:6  When therefore he said unto them, I am, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

    Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Mat 23:24  Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.   :O

    April 29, 2007 at 6:22 pm#50929
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi CB,
    You lose company even on the wide road with your personalised doctrines.

    Three versions of trinity belief on this page yet they claim unity.

    April 30, 2007 at 2:11 am#50953
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (Cult Buster @ April 30 2007,00:20)
    942767

    Quote
    4:6
    One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    And also,

    1Ti 2:5
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    Look!
    Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    It seems that you have a problem here 94, because Jesus The Mighty God is referred to here as The everlasting Father.

    One God means one Godhead. The Godhead is our Father, so is each Person within, though One holds the “office” of “The Father”.

    There is one Godhead, and one mediator between the Godhead and men.   Jesus Christ our mediator, was incarnate as a man yet He was still God.

    Open your eyes and look!  :O

    JOHN 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

    TITUS 2:13 ..awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Jesus Christ;

    JOHN 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    JOHN 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

    Heb 1:8  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    PHILIPPIANS 2:5-6 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    COLOSSIANS 2:9-10 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    1 TIMOTHY 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    Compare
    Psa 41:13  Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting, and to everlasting. Amen, and Amen.
    With
    MICAH 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, {though} thou be little among the thousands of Judah, {yet} out of thee shall he come forth unto me {that is} to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth {have been} from of old, from everlasting.

    Compare
    1 CHRONICLES 28:9 . . . the Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts:
    With
    MATTHEW 9:4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
    MATTHEW 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, . . .
    REVELATION 2:23 . . . I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: . . .

    Compare
    Isa 40:3  The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
    With (John the Baptist referring to Jesus)
    Mat 3:3  For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

    Compare1Sa 2:2  There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
    With
    1Co 10:4  And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    Compare
    Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
    With
    Joh 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
    Joh 18:6  When therefore he said unto them, I am, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

    Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Mat 23:24  Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.   :O


    Hi CB:

    You say:

    Look!
    Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    It seems that you have a problem here 94, because Jesus The Mighty God is referred to here as The everlasting Father.

    One God means one Godhead. The Godhead is our Father, so is each Person within, though One holds the “office” of “The Father”.

    And I say:

    I believe that you are a little confused and are trying your best to confuse me, but I know what “ONE GOD” means.  You say that “ONE HAS THE OFFICE OF FATHER” and then you refer me to a scripture that Jesus name will be called by several titles including “THE EVERLASTING FATHER”.  So then you are saying both are Jehovah the “ONE GOD” and if Jesus is the “EVERLASTING FATHER”, then both share the office of FATHER”.

    It is pointless to discuss the scriptures with you.  You won't admit your mistakes.  You said that there are “THREE DIETIES”.

    Ephesians 4:6 states very clearly that there is:
    One God and Father of all, who is above all (including Jesus), and through all, and in you all.

    Anyway, I love you and desire the very best that God has for you and your family.  I pray that God will give you revelation knowledge in the truth of his Word.

    God Bless

    April 30, 2007 at 2:18 am#50954
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi CB,
    So you say there are three persons in God and one of them is The Father.
    Then you say all have the office of Father but are unable to show three.
    So the Father is just a a meaningless office to you and God is not a father?
    Actually God is the father of Jesus by His own Spirit.

    April 30, 2007 at 9:45 am#50981
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,14:18)
    Hi CB,
    So you say there are three persons in God and one of them is The Father.
    Then you say all have the office of Father but are unable to show three.
    So the Father is just a a meaningless office to you and God is not a father?
    Actually God is the father of Jesus by His own Spirit.


    Nick, here is a Scripture that might help you.

    Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.

    If the Holy Spirit and the Father were one and the same, would the Father send Himself? And would the Father travel under His alter ego, ie the Holy Spirit?

    And if the Holy Spirit is not an identity in His own right, why did Jesus say whom instead of it?

    I have quoted the following Scripture also in the past, but you seem to prefer to put your own interpretation on it.

    Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.

    The Holy Spirit is called He six times in this one verse and these are the words of Jesus.

    He is the Spirit of Truth
    He will come
    He will guide
    He will speak
    He will hear
    He will announce

    What more do you need?

    April 30, 2007 at 10:11 am#50983
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Oxy,
    More than inference

    April 30, 2007 at 4:25 pm#50997
    Worshipping Jesus
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,22:11)
    Hi Oxy,
    More than inference


    NH

    You mean like the inference you place on 1 Cor 8:6?

    :D

    April 30, 2007 at 6:31 pm#51004
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi w,
    1cor 8
    ' 1Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

    2And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

    3But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

    4As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

    5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

    6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.'

    No need for inference.
    God speaks.

    April 30, 2007 at 7:26 pm#51013
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 30 2007,22:11)
    Hi Oxy,
    More than inference


    So are you saying Jesus just “inferred” that the Holy Spirit is He?

    Jesus said it, it is recorded in Scripture. That is good enough for me. If you want to disbelieve Jesus and Scripture then there is no hope for you.

    April 30, 2007 at 7:43 pm#51019
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Oxy,
    Look at Acts 5 and you will see that the Holy Spirit is as God on earth. God did not spawn His Spirit as another person.
    The Holy Spirit proceeds from God.

    May 1, 2007 at 5:55 am#51108
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2007,07:43)
    Hi Oxy,
    Look at Acts 5 and you will see that the Holy Spirit is as God on earth. God did not spawn His Spirit as another person.
    The Holy Spirit proceeds from God.


    You are so right in your own eyes Nick that you can't see the web of deception that has engulfed you. The Scripture I quoted is very plain, but you chose to ignore it.

    This is why I stopped coming here before. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    May 1, 2007 at 5:56 am#51109
    Oxy
    Participant

    If you are not going to believe what Jesus said, as quoted in Scripture, then there is no hope for you.

    May 1, 2007 at 6:31 am#51113
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi Oxy,
    That is one approach when what you teach is your own doctrines.
    Another is to check them against what is revealed.
    Then you may learn to abide.
    Our lord told us to.

    May 1, 2007 at 7:57 am#51116
    Oxy
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 01 2007,18:31)
    Hi Oxy,
    That is one approach when what you teach is your own doctrines.
    Another is to check them against what is revealed.
    Then you may learn to abide.
    Our lord told us to.


    Pity you don't take your own advice Nick.

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