Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 21 2011,18:38)Thanks for your input.  I'm aching to discuss the CONTEXTUAL possibilities, and blow you “Jesus is God” people right out of the water with Keith's own words.  But I won't do it until everyone has agreed to the UNDENIABLE FACT that the Greek into English translation of John 1:1c ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY allows f…[Read more]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 20 2011,13:09)Murray J. Harris “From the point of view of grammar alone, qeoV hn`o logoV could be rendered 'the Word was a god'…But the theological context, viz., John's monotheism, makes this rendering of 1:1c impossible” (Harris, Jesus as God, p. 60).  Harris's objection to the NWT rendering is not based on…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 21 2011,18:38)Aren't you guys reading the actual question?  There is no available answer EXCEPT FOR “YES”.  Because CLEARLY, ACCORDING TO THE SCHOLARS I QUOTED, “a god” IS a GRAMMATICAL POSSIBILITY, even though Harris clearly thinks that the the “a god” translation is a CONTEXTUAL IMPOSSIBILITY.MikeBut that wasn't the w…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 21 2011,20:02)allif Christ was God;Ex 33:20 But,” he (GOD)said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”then we would all be dead by now.but Christ is not God this is why he said he is the “son of God” not God.PierreYet Jesus said if you have seen me then you have seen God.What are you saying? That God w…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 22 2011,10:45)Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 22 2011,15:11)To all,It is my opinion that this thread belongs in the forum titled “The Bible” since it is a debate betwen early manuscripts of scripture”.Kerwin,You would be correct if there was a manuscript with a variant reading of Matthew 28:19. But there is no variant reading…[Read more]

B.F. Westcott writes…It is necessarily without the article (theos not ho theos) inasmuch as it describes the nature of the Word and does not identify His Person.  It would be pure Sabellianism to say “the Word was ho theos”.  “No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of the expression, which simply affirms the true deity of t…[Read more]

W. E. Vine writes…“'and the Word was God'; here a double stress is on theos, by the absence of the article and by the emphatic position.  To translate it literally, “a god was the Word,' is entirely misleading” (Vine, Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary, “God”, p. 272).  According to W.E. Vine is it grammatically possible to translate John 1…[Read more]

Hi ALLF.F. Bruce a Professor at the University of Manchester, England and has authored a New Testament translation states…“Much is made by Arian amateur grammarians of the omission of the definite article with ‘God’ in the phrase “And the Word was God.’ Such an omission is common with nouns in a predicative construction…’a god’ would be totall…[Read more]

Hi AllA.T. Robertson a world renowned Greek Grammarian states…“So in John 1:1 theos en ho logos ”THE MEANING HAS TO BE THE LOGOS WAS GOD, not God was the Logos.” A New Short Grammar of the Greek Testament, by A.T. Robertson and W. Hersey Davis (Baker Book House, 1977), p. 129.According to Dr Robertson can John 1:1c grammatically be trans…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 21 2011,22:35)Quote (t8 @ Mar. 21 2011,17:24)Mike.Get WJ. I want him taken out.You want me to “rub him out”?  “Fit him for cement boots”?  “Put him to sleep with the fishes”?  Consider it done, Bugsy.  Keith and Jack, I'm not allowed to say “liar” anymore, but check out this example I posted for D in the “God among god…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 21 2011,18:31)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2011,06:19)Hey JackI have, but I doubt t8 will do anything even though he disagrees with the JWs and Mikes arthrous rendering of John 1:1C.T8 has all but called me a liar by inferring I am dishonest.It's Ok because I know who the “Accuser of the Brethren” is.  WJHave I said you are…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 21 2011,14:23)Keith said;Quote Hey JackI have, but I doubt t8 will do anything even though he disagrees with the JWs and Mikes arthrous rendering of John 1:1C.T8 has all but called me a liar by inferring I am dishonest.It's Ok because I know who the “Accuser of the Brethren” is.Keith,I am talking about the double…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Mar. 21 2011,14:01)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 22 2011,01:51)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,18:51)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 19 2011,16:47)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,17:37)Murray J. Harris has written: “Accordingly, from the point of view of grammar alone, could be rendered “the Word was a god,….” -Jesus As…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Mar. 19 2011,17:52)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 20 2011,06:12)If it is not grammatically correct then it is not grammatically possible.WJIf God is a HIM, then how can HE be three people. HE would have to be THEM. It is not grammatically possible to call a substance of 3 persons HIM.Therefore if it is not grammatically correct then it…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,18:51)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 19 2011,16:47)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,17:37)Murray J. Harris has written: “Accordingly, from the point of view of grammar alone, could be rendered “the Word was a god,….” -Jesus As God, 1992, p. 60.C. H. Dodd says: “If a translation were a matter of substituting…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2011,19:03)You have been mistaken on this subject.  You have been shown the truth from experts in the field.  The only question that remains is which you will cease to be – honest, or mistaken?MikeAnd you are a liar to be calling me dishonest when you have not proven anything except the opinions of a couple of s…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 20 2011,11:41)Hi Mark,But you have read from NO scholar that teaches you the “a god” translation is impossible.  The Greek words and the Greek grammar allow for it, and EVERY scholar knows this.  I know it.  Every scholar who ever learned Koine Greek knows it.MikeProve it! You see these are the kind of broad statements th…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,17:37)Murray J. Harris has written: “Accordingly, from the point of view of grammar alone, could be rendered “the Word was a god,….” -Jesus As God, 1992, p. 60.C. H. Dodd says: “If a translation were a matter of substituting words, a possible translation of ; would be, “The Word was a god”. As a word-for-word…[Read more]

Mike, Did Jesus cease to be an angel to become a man and then cease to be a man to become a mighty angel?WJ

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,16:40)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 19 2011,14:52)MikeEven if you say they are not the same being then if Jesus is of the “same kind” yet a seperate being then his kind is still the “God kind”. It would still mean that in nature he is all that the Father is as God just as you are all your father is as man.This is…[Read more]