Quote (Lightenup @ April 23 2011,12:52)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 23 2011,12:19)Quote (Lightenup @ April 23 2011,12:07)Before He was begotten, He existed ready to help the Father.  See the difference?Hi KathiNo I don't understand.Was Jesus “another being” in the Father?If begotten to you does not mean “concieved”, “born”, or “procreated”,…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 23 2011,12:26)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 23 2011,10:53)Can you or the Watchtower NWT translators prove that there is a rule “GRAMMATICALLY” that demands John 1:1c should be with the indefinite article?I can't speak for the NWT translators, but I can tell you that it is a complete impossibility from the words that are…[Read more]

KathiI am sorry for interrupting your discussionn with JA. I have to admit he seems like a different person and I like the New JA. You don't have to answer my post right away because I know it gets overwelming when you get more than one person coming at you. I always hate it when I am having a deep discussion with Mike and someone (not to mention…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 23 2011,12:07)Keith,At least I have an understanding of the creeds.  The trinitarians that are around today don't understand and just say that it is a mystery.Hi KathiDo you? Isn't your view somewhat of a “mystery” also since you say the Son was always in the Father but was not the begotten son until he was brought forth,…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 23 2011,12:07)Before He was begotten, He existed ready to help the Father.  See the difference?Hi KathiNo I don't understand.Was Jesus “another being” in the Father?If begotten to you does not mean “concieved”, “born”, or “procreated”, but “brougth forth” then why couldn't his begetting be after he came in the flesh or…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 21 2011,22:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 21 2011,17:00)Can you or the Watchtower NWT translators prove that “GRAMMATICALLY” John 1:1c should be “arthrous”? Yes Or No?Keith, I don't understand the question or the word “arthrous”.OK. Let me reword it even though I think you knew what I meant…Can you or the Watchtowe…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 21 2011,16:22)Hi William,You know that I agree with you in many things and you have written your beliefs well…kudos.  I do question this part though:Quote With the foundation of our reality laid, God was manifested in this new reality as everything our reality could possibly support of the Father (but was far short of…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,19:56)Kathi,Even the Trinitarians (as exampled by WJ and Trinis are by far the largest group of “Eternal Son” believers) do not believe that Jesus was Begotten before time.Until i heard you saying what you are trying to say hear i'd never (thought provokingly) heard of this idea…Kathi, unless i have been placing my…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 22 2011,02:19)Further more: God incubating Jesus would make him the MOTHER – not the FATHER of the Son!Hi JAI can't say that I disagree with you here. Not only that but if Jesus had a beginning as the “begotten son” implying that Jesus was litterally born from the Father then when was he concieved?So to be true to the…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ April 19 2011,19:02)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 20 2011,08:21)Quote (Baker @ April 19 2011,14:51)Yes, He is God, but not as great as His Father.IreneSo you believe in more than one God also?You say Jesus is “God”, but is Jesus “YOUR” God? WJKeith!   Hbr 1:8   But unto the Son , Thy throne, O God, for ever and ever: a sceptre o…[Read more]

Hi MikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2011,21:33)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2011,10:41)“Thus the translation “the Word was fully God” was chosen because it is more likely to convey the meaning to the average English reader that the Logos (which “became flesh and took up residence among us” in John 1:14 and is thereafter identified in the Fou…[Read more]

Hi T8They are my Savour, they are my Lord, they are my God, and they are my Light and Life, for they are “One”. I was also baptised in “Their” name. How about you?They meaning the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.So you see t8 I have no problem refering to God as they!In fact the scriptures say “let us” make man in “our' image and yet we say God…[Read more]

Hi t8Quote (t8 @ April 03 2011,00:30)WJ, an angel is a messenger and that word can be applied to Man, Seraph, Cherub, and probably any type of creature that God uses as a messenger.Really? t8 there is ambiguity around your statement because not “all messengers of God” are “angelic beings” are they?Here is the description of the Cherubim…The p…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ April 19 2011,17:46)Keith.You could put this to rest by just answering the question now.It might be easier than arguing over the process as to why you didn't do it in the first place.Or have you already answered?t8I have answered it more than once and in fact Mike continued his accusations toward me by creating a thread where he…[Read more]

Quote (csaliba @ April 20 2011,15:27)Means that God incarnated his son as a sacrifice within Lucifer to recreate a new world through His Son based on good and evil.WOW! Jesus is in Lucifer now?  Where do these people come from?WJ

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 20 2011,21:44)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 20 2011,13:30)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 19 2011,22:16)  In 1 Corinthians 8:6, who exactly does Paul refer to using the words “one god”?  He lists that one by name/title.  Who is it Keith?mikeThe answer is the Father.Very good Keith.Do you believe Jesus to be “the Fa…[Read more]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ April 21 2011,04:29)Now place in Jesus teaching was the “Kingdom of God” referred to as a “Government”.Really?How about the words of one of the greatest Major Prophets that ever lived…For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the *GOVERNMENT* shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful,…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 20 2011,16:31)Oh, WJ, saying 'there are many other things that Jesus did' is not naming three things that Jesus the God did?And in any case … My mistake, I meant – Before he came as Man.1. He created all things for he was part of the “us” that made man in his image.2. He followed the children of Israel as the Rock.3. He…[Read more]

Quote (Istari @ April 20 2011,16:11)WJ,You have answered with excellence according to your belief.They were to say the least.Thanks! Quote (Istari @ April 20 2011,16:11)As for your question: God does not live in a flesh body nor does God appear as Man.There is no Scripture verse to say that God lives in a body of flesh nor appears as…[Read more]

Hi JAQuote (Istari @ April 20 2011,14:34)WJ,A God becomes NOT A God – then becomes A God again?True!Quote (Istari @ April 20 2011,14:34)Can A God become anything other than A God…?I don't know because I only believe in One God. But it seems if one believes in other gods then at some point that other god became a god like maybe when he was born…[Read more]