Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,12:27)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 10 2010,10:25)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 10 2010,10:02)Calvin on “today I have begotten you” in Psalm 2:7:Quote On this account, we ought the more carefully to beware of wickedly refusing the edict which he publishes, Thou art my Son. David, indeed could with propriety be called…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,11:21)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 10 2010,10:36)TO ALL:Even the Muslims reject Kathi's and Mike's assertion that Christ was begotten by a sexual cat of God:Quote In the Qur'an we find various passages protesting against a notion of “begetting” for God, for example He begetteth not, nor is he begotten.And there is…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 08 2010,18:48)TO ALL: Please note that in 1 Corinthians 10:9 the “oldest” and “good” manuscripts say that the people tempted CHRIST. Deuteronomy 6:16 says that they tempted YHWH. Therefore, Christ is the YHWH of Deuteronomy 6:16. Quote 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 10 2010,10:30)WJ………..You are right Calvinist are indeed Trinitarians and Preexistence both they are they Daughters of the Catholic Church. Peace and love……………………….geneGBSo are you saying that t8, kathi, Mike, JA, WJ, KJ, SF, Irene, are all heretics?

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 09 2010,19:17)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 03 2010,07:47)Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 02 2010,15:20)Isn't a better question what the original disciples of John thought John was saying?  Ignatius used the term ''unbegotten God'' and ''begotten God.''  That should be sufficient to say that one self-existed and one did not self-exist b…[Read more]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 10 2010,10:02)Calvin on “today I have begotten you” in Psalm 2:7:Quote On this account, we ought the more carefully to beware of wickedly refusing the edict which he publishes, Thou art my Son. David, indeed could with propriety be called the son of God on account of his royal dignity, just as we know that princes,…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 05 2010,15:27)Keith,Jack and you do not believe that the second person of the trinity was always a son?  The trinitarians believe that, you know that don't you?  To be a true trinitarian, means that you believe in the trinity doctrine.  In the trinity doctrine, the Son is co-eternal with the Father but that is not what yo…[Read more]

Good idea!Here is one.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 04 2010,20:55)Keith,Augustine is a trinitarian and I am not, nor do I pretend to be (like some on here).Kathi is implying that Jack and myself are being dishonest.Can she tell us what the definition of a Trinitarian is? Can she prove that all the Trinitarian Fathers believed exactly the same?What is…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2010,13:19)KJ and WJ don't want Psalm 2:7 to really mean “begotten” because that would shoot down their trinity doctrine if Jesus had a beginning.  And they will twist scriptures and tell half-truths and do anything else they can to make new students like us be swayed to their way of thinking.MikeNot true at all. What…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 02 2010,15:20)WJ, do you admit that the 'second person of the trinity doctrine' was at one time, before the ages, not a separate person to the Father?Of course not. He was always with the Father before the ages or time which means he was eternally with the Father as Calvin puts so well…“…WHEN IT IS EVIDENT THAT THREE P…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 02 2010,15:20)Isn't a better question what the original disciples of John thought John was saying?  Ignatius used the term ''unbegotten God'' and ''begotten God.''  That should be sufficient to say that one self-existed and one did not self-exist but was made to exist by the self-existent one.But that is your opinion a…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 02 2010,13:40)Just as a side not WJ, the Trinity Doctrine states that the son was begotten from eternity in some kind of eternal begotten state. I take it that you disagree with that part of your doctrine, in which case the RCC police and even many Protestant police would charge you with heresy. How to you plead?t8I can readily…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 01 2010,20:43)Which reminds me JA,I got side tracked for a minute.  Now that we both understand that “yalad” has to do with begetting, and not any of the alternate things that the Greek word “gennao” can imply (like when you “begot” me), why do you think God would use that word about His Son knowing full well how the…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 02 2010,05:37)Lightenup, Mike,There are things we do not know,  We have Scripture, it fulfills what Jesus spoke, that this good news of the coming kingdom will be spread through all the world and then the end will come, everything we need to know is there, all else came later,Ignatius – some are spurious, only those with…[Read more]

Quote (JustAskin @ July 31 2010,15:58)Mike,I don't do much Internet searching but I looked up YALAD and there was this quote from: http://sites.google.com/site/calendarstudies/begat-hebrew-yalad-Quote Leah is well known to have had six immediate sons and one daughter, yet she is said to bare Jacob 33 sons and daughters, a sum that includes…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 31 2010,10:40)WJ……….You properly do not believe Cyrus was from above either , or Jeremiah, of John the Baptist  and on and on it goes, You probably don't believe GOD foreordained any of Us do you.But none of them ever said they “came down from heaven” or they “are from above” or they “were going to ascend back to…[Read more]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 31 2010,10:24)Mike………..Not sure if you fully understand it, But we also could say we are to ascend up to where we were before , are we not all in the plan and will of GOD? is not GOD (IN) heaven ? Are we no seated with Christ in the heavens, Get the picture. Mike take time and go read the Site and Article Martian…[Read more]

Hi AllI don't usually agree with Mike on much but it is clear what the scriptures say on his preexistence. The Greek Grammer tenses, Etc do not allow for a Unitarian interpretation. In fact it is a “LIE” to say that Jesus was from this world.JTB said…“He that cometh from above is above all“: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of…[Read more]

Sorry, Duplicate post!

Quote (chosenone @ July 30 2010,16:36)Hi WJ.   Hard as it seems to understand, yes, “all is of God”.  Who made the “wicked”?  Yes, God did, see Proverbs 16:4 …Yahweh has made everything for its own pertinent end, Yea even the wicked for the day of evil.     Also, God created evil, see Isaiah 45:7  …Former of light and creator of darkn…[Read more]