Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2010,14:01)If you want to say that I worship a trinity because I worship the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit then I worship a trinity but I do not worship a trinity doctrine which goes beyond acknowledging worship to the Father, the Son and to the Holy Spirit. KathiAh, but you do go beyond scripture for you worship…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,22:06)They both had valid points.  Much like HN.  We will probably see a new creed in our lifetime that takes 'only begotten' out of it entirely.  This will further the evolution away from the original intent as I see it.KathiYour point above shows bias, because the creeds didn't come until the third century. So th…[Read more]

To allAnother point is that worship is not simply a bowing down in respect of another but is also a form of “COMPLETE DEVOTION” to another. It is a condition of the heart.To follow one even to death is also a form of worshipping that person. For where your heart is that is where your treasure is. Jesus is my treasure and I put no limits as to my…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2010,11:52)WJshow me here are the scriptures;were is Jesus equal to his father;;allJn 14:13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. Jn 14:14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.TNotice Jesus words that “HE WILL ANSWER OUR PRAYERS”. Imagine that? John…[Read more]

Quote (david @ Nov. 03 2010,02:50)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 03 2010,04:35)Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2010,02:05)Quote AND IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THIS HE SAYS “I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE”.If another person who knows better, misapplies this scripture again, my head is going to explode.DavidYou mean like the Jews who wanted to stone him for saying…[Read more]

Quote (david @ Nov. 04 2010,01:33)wor·ship  (wûrshp)n.1.a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.2. Ardent devotion; adoration.3. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain ot…[Read more]

kathiYou said…“Do you think that a religious belief in, and bowing down to someone/some object to show religious honor to them other than God is against the first commandment, Mike?”This is really an excellent point and one that cannot be refuted. For their bowing to Jesus was not merely a bowing to an earthly king.Another point to be made is…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,16:11)Keith,The reference that I have says that monogenes is made up of Strong's #3441 and #1096.  You used #1085 which may be related but #1096 is a verb and #1085 isn't and it is #1096 that is part of monogenes and not #1085.Quote NT:3439 monogenh/$ monogenes (mon-og-en-ace'); from NT:3441 and NT:1096; only-born,…[Read more]

Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 02 2010,17:11)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 03 2010,10:05)IreneOkay, isn't that what I have been saying?So why would you say that Jesus is not being worshipped in all the scriptures that says he was?Why didn't Jesus do like Peter and say “I myself am also a man” don't worship me?WJBowed down to ,as I have shown there is a…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,16:11)Yes, I can tell their goal was not to come to unity but to divide.  The creeds should seek to bring clarity to scripture, not seek to divide those who are seeking.  That is where they went wrong…their motive, imo.KathiHow can you judge their motives? Is it only when they disagree with you that they were s…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,16:11)Keith,The reference that I have says that monogenes is made up of Strong's #3441 and #1096.  You used #1085 which may be related but #1096 is a verb and #1085 isn't and it is #1096 that is part of monogenes and not #1085.Quote NT:3439 monogenh/$ monogenes (mon-og-en-ace'); from NT:3441 and NT:1096; only-born,…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ Nov. 02 2010,15:39)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 03 2010,04:10)Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2010,01:33)Quote In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me?To say that it is because Jesus wasn’t being worshipped but just being honored lacks evidence because there are no…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,14:59)This info really should end this back and forth arguing if this is true:”In that culture, a dignitary's adult son was deemed equal in stature and privilege with his father. The same deference demanded by a king was afforded to his adult son. The son was, after all, of the very same essence as his father, heir…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,15:17)Well, I was testing you Keith to see if you would humble yourself to admit that monogenes is in the Nicene Creed and translated as 'only begotten' and you failed that test What do you want? Shall I bow at your feet in worship? You said…”Both of the words are in this creed…monogenes and gennao “as far as I…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 02 2010,14:40)Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 13 2010,16:19)Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 09 2010,23:59)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 09 2010,23:12)Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 09 2010,22:53)I know Keith, but your view isn't supported as to your translation of monogenes with the early church fathers and the writers of the creeds.KathiAnd…[Read more]

OKI have given my take on worship. I am done for now. I don't have time or the will to take on all of HN!  WJ

Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2010,02:34)Keith, in the last 3 pages, I believe I clearly refuted scripturally all the points you make.  I would add more, but it is quite late.  If there is anything you disagree with, I could spend more time on this.

Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2010,02:31)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,14:48)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,22:39)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,14:26)“I and my Father are one. “Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone…[Read more]

Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2010,02:23)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,14:36)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,22:26)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 02 2010,14:17)MikeRead it closely, it is Johns words that is commentating what Jesus meant!Therefore the Jews sought “the more to kill him”, because he not only had broken the sabbath, “but said also…[Read more]

Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2010,02:20)Quote But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. Acts 10:26Why didn't Jesus do this?When a king is bowed down to (in greek, “proskyneo”) he accepts this honor.  Peter apparently felt uncomfortable with it.  He was humble.  And while Jesus is also humble, we know he is deserving of great ho…[Read more]