Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 07 2010,06:33)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,12:22) In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me? Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:25)If Jesus, who clearly said we are to worship ONLY Jehovah our God, was ever being “worshipped” in s…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 08 2010,13:08)Keith,I believe the message of the creeds is that there is one true God, the Father and one begotten God OF/from the unbegotten God, and one Spirit of God.  All of ONE essence.KathiStill not a direct answer of yes or no, but anyway…First of all the creeds did not stop until the final creed, the Athanasian…[Read more]

MikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 07 2010,06:23)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,12:22) Why did John and Jesus choose the word if he wanted to portray the “True worship” to the Father could mean anything less?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:25)They DIDN'T want it to mean anything less in this scripture Keith.Then why do you assume that…[Read more]

mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,17:28)It doesn't mention God anywhere in that statement Keith.Does it have to mention God to know that Jesus was not saying that they would be worshipping them?Other translations render it “Worship” and it doesn’t say in the text they will “worship you” or “bow down to you” but instead it is “worship at y…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 08 2010,11:27)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,10:17)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,17:09)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,14:55)Keith,Quote To say Jesus is another being from God is to divide the essence.Can you tell me your definition of the word 'being' here?Also, what do you mean when you say 'divide the…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 08 2010,11:32)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,10:24)Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,17:05)I can accept infinite essence of the Son.  I can't accept that begotten before the ages means, as far as I can tell, the same thing as unbegotten before the ages.  You are defining begotten as unbegotten, imo.KathiI accept the o…[Read more]

To Mike and DavidI wll answer your many points but have already answered most. But first I want to hear from both of you what the definition of the word “Worship” means to you? What does it mean to “worship” the Father?What is the “True Worship” Jesus spoke of and how is it done practically?How do you “worship the Father”?WJ

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,16:54)Keith:Quote BTW Mike, when Isaiah calls Jesus the “Mighty God” does this mean he is saying 'he is the mighty mighty one”? That's EXACTLY what God meant by that Keith.  As opposed to Himself, who is the ONLY “MIGHTIEST, or ALMIGHTY mighty one”.Why don't we take this up in the John 1:1-3 thread?  You can e…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,16:54)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 07 2010,06:02)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:30)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 07 2010,04:56)John 1:1 speaks of “a mighty one” who was WITH “THE Almighty One” in the beginning.  Neither John 1:1, nor any other scripture in existence speaks of TWO Gods.MikeSo you not only…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,12:22) Please can someone give us a NT example of the word being used in honor to any other than the Father and Jesus? Where is the NT example of a bowing down to someone out of great respect?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:25)You have three to start with for now.  After we discuss those three, we'll…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,12:22) To say that it is because Jesus wasn’t being worshipped but just being honored lacks evidence because there are no other NT examples of the word proskyneō being used toward any one with honor other than the Father and Jesus. In every case the word is directed to any other it is refused or it is a w…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,12:22) In all the scriptures that speak of Jesus being worshipped (proskyneō) why didn’t Jesus once say do not worship me? Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:25)If Jesus, who clearly said we are to worship ONLY Jehovah our God, was ever being “worshipped” in scripture, he most definitely WOULD have said s…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,12:22) Why did John and Jesus choose the word if he wanted to portray the “True worship” to the Father could mean anything less?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:25)They DIDN'T want it to mean anything less in this scripture Keith.Then why do you assume that they didn't truly worship Jesus when the word…[Read more]

MikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,12:22)Where is the example of this word in the NT of a bowing down out of respect by any Apostle or Believer to any other than the Father and Jesus where it was not forbidden by the recipient?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:11)Stick with your original claim and be man enough to either defend your…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,14:30)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 07 2010,04:56)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,13:30)John 1:1 speaks of “a mighty one” who was WITH “THE Almighty One” in the beginning.  Neither John 1:1, nor any other scripture in existence speaks of TWO Gods.MikeSo you not only have abandoned every known translation on…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2010,13:30)John 1:1 speaks of “a mighty one” who was WITH “THE Almighty One” in the beginning.  Neither John 1:1, nor any other scripture in existence speaks of TWO Gods.MikeSo you not only have abandoned every known translation on Biblegateway.com and Blueletterbible.org and the NET, but also the NWT? None of them say…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,17:05)I can accept infinite essence of the Son.  I can't accept that begotten before the ages means, as far as I can tell, the same thing as unbegotten before the ages.  You are defining begotten as unbegotten, imo.KathiI accept the other definition of 'Begotten” that is without “procreation”. That is what the c…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2010,17:09)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,14:55)Keith,Quote To say Jesus is another being from God is to divide the essence.Can you tell me your definition of the word 'being' here?Also, what do you mean when you say 'divide the essence?'Can you please explain this in a simple way for me?KathiIt is simple. To…[Read more]

MartyQuote (942767 @ Nov. 05 2010,18:15)Jesus is my Lord.  When I obey him, I am obeying God…That’s a pretty profound statement Marty. Now how far would you carry that? Would you follow his command even if it meant you were going to die for his (Jesus) names sake? So in other words what you are saying Marty is Jesus is equal to God, right?If yo…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 05 2010,15:22)Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 05 2010,15:19)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 06 2010,12:00)Quote (942767 @ Nov. 04 2010,21:22)WJ:He said: for my sake and the sake of the gospel.  We are submitted to God through him.  When we obey him we are obeying God in that he is doing the will of God.MartyWhat does this m…[Read more]