Jesus said: that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father.

We are to honor the Son, JUST AS WE HONOR THE FATHER. How do we honor the Father? We honor the Father as God.
That means, we also are to honor Jesus as God, because we are to honor Jesus as we honor the Father. Not less!

Jesus also said:

Joh 8:50 Yet I do not seek my…[Read more]

The Gospel is not only “all about the Father” but also about Jesus!
Read this verse:

John 5:22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

We ought to honor the Son just like we honor…[Read more]

Right, we accept ALL verses about Jesus being truly a son of man and more than that, but also THE Son of Man.. if you know what that is!

Trinitarians believe that Jesus is FULLY MAN and also FULLY GOD, which fits the ENTIRE Scripture.

No, I never say that I have no trouble accepting WHAT YOU SAY….. never. I say I have no problem…[Read more]

In the New Testaments, there are two groups of verses that describe Jesus:

1. That Jesus is a man
2. That Jesus is divine

I, and all other Trinitarian Christians, have no problem at all accepting the verses describing Jesus as a human being: annointed, born as a baby, son of Mary, son of Joseph, called son of David, hungry, tired, tortured,…[Read more]

All right, I think I can say a few more words.

You say that Jesus is a mortal man (“mortal man whose GENESIS is given to you by Matthew”, etc).

On what Scriptural basis did you say that Jesus is a mortal man?

Did you know that Adam was created IMMORTAL? He died ONLY AFTER he sinned.

According to Scriptures, Jesus is sinless. Do you…[Read more]

I really pity you because you just ignore many verses in the Scripture that show that Jesus is the eternal Son of God.

Example:

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen h…[Read more]

As usual, you ignore the verses that shows that Jesus has a pre-existence, together with the Father.

The verse by Jude is clear that Jesus was leading the Israelites out of Egypt.

You said “The Spirit of Christ, meaning the Spirit of the Anointed, is the Spirit of God dwelling in Jesus’s spirit.”

I am afraid this is your own conjecture… Paul never says that Jesus has two spirits: himself’s and God’s Spirit in Him.

Read this:

1 Corinth 10:

1 I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the c…[Read more]

Have you ever found the term ‘the Spirit of Peter’ or ‘the Spirit of Paul’ or the Spirit of Matthew in the…[Read more]

You got it wrong Brother… it’s Jesus and the Father making THEIR home IN US! So, the Holy Spirit is basically the Spirit of the Father and the Spirit of Christ, because we know that it is the Holy Spirit that indwells in us.

Ro 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone…[Read more]

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and WE WILL come to him and make OUR HOME with him.

Jesus and the Father will come and make THEIR home with those who love Jesus. If Jesus is a mere man, this is definitely is a blasphemy!! There are now billions o…[Read more]

Thank you for the welcome 🙂 Actually I was here some years ago…
Yes, I am definitely in the mainstream Trinitarian belief…

Thank you, peace and love to you and yours too 🙂

It’s been very long… been very busy with projects, and evangelizing the Moslems… you know what? Debating with them does not feel too much different from debating with you! They like to use Bible verses that you use, to prove that Jesus is not God. LOL!

I don’t remember quite much the plot of our discussion, but what I remember is that…[Read more]

You are totally missing the point!

Jesus knew exactly that the God of Israel had been seen by people; He had visited Abraham in human form, He had been seen by Moses (Moses saw God’s back) and Israeli elders, and seen by Isaiah on His throne with the seraphim and cherubim around. Therefore, when John wrote “no one has seen God”, Jesus…[Read more]

You are totally missing the point!

Jesus knew exactly that the God of Israel had been seen by people; He had visited Abraham in human form, He had been seen by Moses (Moses saw God’s back) and Israeli elders, and seen by Isaiah on His throne with the seraphim and cherubim around. Therefore, when John wrote “no one has seen God”, Jesus…[Read more]

You are totally missing the point!

Jesus knew exactly that the God of Israel had been seen by people; He had visited Abraham in human form, He had been seen by Moses (Moses saw God’s back) and Israeli elders, and seen by Isaiah on His throne with the seraphims and cherubim around. Therefore, when John wrote “no one has seen God”, Jesus…[Read more]

You are totally missing the point!

Jesus knew exactly that the God of Israel had been seen by people; He had visited Abraham in human form, He had been seen by Moses (Moses saw God’s back) and Israeli elders, and seen by Isaiah on His throne with the seraphims and cherubim around. Therefore, when John wrote “no one has seen God”, Jesus…[Read more]

I do not disagree with the Scripture or their writers, but I disagree with YOUR INTERPRETATION of their writings.

When John writes that no one has seen God, John meant to say that none has seen the Father. Jesus explains this Himself:

John 6:46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

So, I…[Read more]

You said:

In the Old Testament, people saw YHWH when they saw the angel of the LORD.

==========

Sorry Brother, I think your statement above does not represent what is written in Genesis 18, Exodus 24, and Isaiah. It is clearly written there that Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah saw GOD (YHWH or YHVH, the Elohim of Israel). These verses are…[Read more]

You said:

In the Old Testament, people saw YHWH when they saw the angel of the LORD.

==========

Sorry Brother, I think your statement above does not represent what is written in Genesis 18, Exodus 24, and Isaiah. It is clearly written there that Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah saw GOD (YHWH or YHVH, the Elohim of Israel). These verses are…[Read more]

Great! Finally you are willing to address this, instead of just ignoring this. I appreciate your willingness to do this.

I see that your reasoning is very close to the truth, but I think you are still missing a few points simply because you are tied to your theology.

When faced with such opposing/contradictory information from the…[Read more]

You said:

If 5+3=8, then know that 5 and 3 are not 8 themselves. If a football team is equal to another, then by reason of that, it is not the same team, but two different teams.

===============

Trinitarians are not just saying that Jesus is the Father. Modalists do say that.

We say that Jesus is the Father and is NOT the Father.

You say…[Read more]

And talking about LIGHT, I read these verses:

Revelation 21:22-23

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

Lord God Almithty and the Lamb are its temple….

God…[Read more]

And talking about LIGHT, I read these verses:

Revelation 21:22-23

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

Lord God Almithty and the Lamb are its temple….

God…[Read more]

you said:

The Father is greater than the Son. Full stop.

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Why full stop? Why in other verses you can twist the meaning in any way you like but here full stop? This is clearly biased.

REad this:

Joh 14:12  “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will…[Read more]

No, I meant Hebrew 1:9 Heb 1:9  You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Try replacing both Gods with Father, and you get a failure.

Verse 10 also EXPLICITLY states that the Father says to the Son that the Son laid the foundation of the…[Read more]

You said: You are kidding me. Are you saying that the three men are the Trinity?

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You better read the verses yourself:

Genesis 18:

1  Then the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were s…[Read more]

You said: You are kidding me. Are you saying that the three men are the Trinity?

=====

You better read the verses yourself:

Genesis 18:

1  Then the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were s…[Read more]

The evidence for Trinitarians are ample; that Jesus is claiming equality with God is also evident in the Bible. You are just trying to ignore them and explain away those statements. Jesus says that He and the Father are one is not the only evidence. Jesus will come as the Judge at the end time, while we know from the Old Testament that God is…[Read more]

Your explanation may contain some truth, but in these Revelation verses, you are clearly putting words into Jesus mouth!!

Lord God says I am the Alpha and the Omega, and Jesus says I am the Alpha and the Omega.

But you give different meanings to that exactly the same name! Why? Because you have your own theology binding you! Anyone who…[Read more]

You are asking for verses where God refers Not to the Father but the Most High? I have already shoved you the verses many times: Genesis 18, Exodus 24, Isaiah 6.  (I know these are not “theos” but essentially the same, just different language).

Need more?

John 1:1 also does not work: and the Word was God.

Also the Hebrew verse, Heb 1:9  Y…[Read more]

So, from those Revelation verses that I quoted, you should already be able to see that The Father says that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, The Beginning and the End, and then in latter verses Jesus also uses this title for Himself.

So, how can you apply diffrent meanings to those names when used by the Father and when…[Read more]

You said:

Okay. Read those hundred verses that I took about God (at random). Try replacing the word God with Son. You still have a mountain of confusion.

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You are clearly being STUPID here. We cannot do that, as well as we cannot replace God with the Father in *ALL* Bible verses. You have to GET RID OF THE IDEA of God being an…[Read more]

Did you not read my post? Replacing *ALL* God with the Father also does NOT work!

So, once again, your method does not work.

As for Trinity, you cannot just replace All Gods into Trinity because sometimes God refers to the Son and sometimes to the Father, and sometimes to All. That’s why it does not seem to work.

You are missing my point!!

I do not intend to talk about “the First and the Last” because you have found a way to twist it.

I am only using that to identify the speaker: Jesus Christ. And He is claiming to be THE ALMIGHTY!

Now, do you get the point. How are you going to deny that since Jesus, who has died and came to life, is apparently…[Read more]

You are missing my point!!

I do not intend to talk about “the First and the Last” because you have found a way to twist it.

I am only using that to identify the speaker: Jesus Christ. And He is claiming to be THE ALMIGHTY!

Now, do you get the point. How are you going to deny that since Jesus, who has died and came to life, is apparently…[Read more]

You are missing my point!!

I do not intend to talk about “the First and the Last” because you have found a way to twist it.

I am only using that to identify the speaker: Jesus Christ. And He is claiming to be THE ALMIGHTY!

Now, do you get the point. How are you going to deny that since Jesus, who has died and came to life, is apparently…[Read more]

I said that your method is a failed method, but you keep forcing it!

We don’t do that, it’s you who did that, trying to replace God with “Trinity”. When the Bible writers wrote “God” it could include “all three persons” of God, it could be the Father, it could be the Son, or it could also be the Holy Spirit. Since each of the persons is God.…[Read more]

I also want you to reread these verses again from Revelation:

Revelation 1: 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

So, this the Alpha and the Omega speaking, who is also THE ALMIGHTY

verse 11: saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and…[Read more]

I also want you to reread these verses again from Revelation:

Revelation 1: 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

So, this the Alpha and the Omega speaking, who is also THE ALMIGHTY

verse 11: saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and…[Read more]

You said:

Becomes: For THE TRINITY so loved the world that THE TRINITY gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

====

I don’t find any problem with that. If God’s nature is Trinitarian, and He is called Trinity, then so be it.

It is more unscriptural to change it to:

For THE UNITY…[Read more]

You said:

Becomes: For THE TRINITY so loved the world that THE TRINITY gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

====

I don’t find any problem with that. If God’s nature is Trinitarian, and He is called Trinity, then so be it.

It is more unscriptural to change it to:

For THE UNITY…[Read more]

You said:

Becomes: For THE TRINITY so loved the world that THE TRINITY gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

====

I don’t find any problem with that. If God’s nature is Trinitarian, and He is called Trinity, then so be it.

It is more unscriptural to change it to:

For THE UNITY…[Read more]

Hmmm… is that all you can say? Where and how am I  corrupted?

I am only showing you verses from the Scripture, and you say that I am so bias?

I think it’s you who cannot accept the Scripture, and so it’s you who are biased towards a heretical teaching that is clearly not scriptural, and yet you accuse me of being so?

Don’t you…[Read more]

Hmmm… is that all you can say? Where am I  corrupted.

I am only showing you verses from the Scripture, and you say that I am so bias?

I think it’s you who cannot accept the Scripture, and so it’s you who are biased towards a heretical teaching that is clearly not scriptural, and yet you accuse me of being so?

Don’t you see above,…[Read more]

So, you are saying that the YHWH and Elohim of Israel who visited Abraham, and seen by Moses and Isaiah is just an “ambassador”?

Read again:

Exodus 24:10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity.

Isaiah 6:1 In the year…[Read more]

No, Paul did not say that Jesus/the Word was God’s first creation. You definitely misunderstood the verse. Let’s read it again carefully:

Colossian 1:15-17

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible,…[Read more]

No, Paul did not say that Jesus/the Word was the God’s first creation. You definitely misunderstood the verse. Let’s read it again carefully:

Colossian 1:15-17

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and…[Read more]