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[peace2all]

i'm not adding any insight to this but i just wanted to say i watched a nice documentary on discovery channel called “lost tomb of jesus” it was produced by james cameron. In isreal the israeli's were dozing to build some new settlements and came across a tomb that when they opened it had stone boxes that contained the remains of jesus and his family and mary. they showed the inscriptions of the names on each casket. of course the israeli government got ride of the bones but they still have the caskets. it was very interesting to watch, worth a watch

[peace2all]

that could be why he told tht samartitan woman that it didn't matter where one worships, because we as individuals will be the one responsible for ourselves.

that is why i think that to keep trying to tell others that they are wrong and you are right, or that your belief is meaningless because others claim your doing it falsely because your view may be different is wrong.

if one who uses the holy scriptures and with whole heart tries to follow jesus's example and also give worsdhip to god almighty as only true god then imo that is what god has wanted.

to see such division here on petty stuff that does not effect ones faith or love or worship to them, then who cares.

it's not all bad to have debates on topics for it does help one become better speakers and keep one involved in scriptres, but too much argueing is not good.

it just would be nice to also talk to all here and not always be tring to defend oneselves and have a nice discussion on the same things we hold dear.

God , jesus and the hope for a better life through them.

[peace2all]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2010,15:00)

P2A if my children would call me by any other name done mine i would not respond,and so is God read the scriptures. if my children would say things about me like i am a plumber but i am not one ,tell that i am a manager but i am not one they would be lying and i would not support those qualities given to me ,if i would i be a liar and now become part of that lie. So if God was not a oneness God the father,and that he would be a trinity then he add lie to the prophets,and Jesus Christ is also a liar ,because he as teach is apostles that is father is the only one God and that he worship the father,and that he received his authority from the father,and that he is his Son,even John says the only begotten son of God, if it would not be like that it will make all the foundation stones (Christ and 12 apostles 11+1)liars this is by it self insane,it would mean the total rejection of God the father and the one he has send Jesus Christ.

god is still one .

he's not three totally different things.

the scriptures show and i've posted many of god comming to man in various ways showing himself and speaking to his people.

he has been in more than one place at the same time. that doesn't mean that there are more than one god to worship or that god cannot use any means he choses to comunicate to use.

he clearly made his son jesus from his own spirit. he then filled that human form with his word and nature.

this was how jesus only had the works of his father and his word. the miracles that onlt the father had.

it is that god chose to communicate with man in this physical way to be that written word but make it flesh tyo actually show us how to preach how to love how to be merciful and how to live by god's will.

this doesn't make jesus god the invisible almighty but a representation of himself.

that is why he was the son, son of the living god.

the son that they seen being born thus having all the nature of god. that is why “the living god” is used.

therer is unity more than just he actually illustration as son ans father tht we humans can grasp.

it is complex and thats why a lot of people just don't want to accept it. however even with scriptures stting the unity as more than a true son of complete independece and having no unity at all with god will then use the ” have faith or it's a miracle” to try to justify things that are comples and ccan;t be really understood.

this is no different

a point about this is that jesus cleary says that the father is greater and has more authority but that does not cancel out that scripture does say that the unity between them is far greater than just father and son.

also that god has come before man as visible form and speach.

the invisible source(god) has not but a means of him has, theat is obvious in scripture and if scripture cannot be broken then it has to be true.

it doesn't make god more or less or take away from jeus or anything like that. views of both god and jesus are held in the same light and worship as it should from both perspectives.

maybe ones take from the scriptures may lead to a understanding of a slighty different take but if all have that love for them and live for him and want ot live his way then i don't think it matters.

i honestly think that much of the bible is not literal but has a deeper underlying message escpecially in the hebrew scriptures.

much seems left out left out and there are holes where something seems to be left out.

[peace2all]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,05:27)

P2A you can believe what you want it does not matter,you have to make it up and conclude to your expectation what you want to see,your trinity. i do not have to do that because it is clearly spelled out to me without speculation,and not mystery you are guide by your own ideas that your way well you free.

true, then you people here need to get off your rightous trip over others that your only right and what others think is wrong .

that your faith and love for them is only right and others are wrong.

that only your interpretaion is correct and leads to god but others can't.

that even though from what i see that we all only worship yhwh as god almighty and hold jesus as our savior and mediator you others still think your only right and think you know everything and comprehend all.

so self rightous many are here, it's sick.

you think god cares if one thinks that they are in unity and are means from the inseen invisible creator of all or if jeus actual is a seperate entitiy having no unity with the father in any way except able to take orders.

he cares that you worship and follow his will with your whole heart and love one another.

some of you here really remind me of the jw's, think they only are right and all else are wrong and not in god's light.

self rightousness is wrong.

everyone can do that, but its not the way. each of us need to do it from within and god knows who's real and who's not.

i don;t see anyone worshiping multiple gods or ungoldly things or having worship and faith that is of this wicked system of things.

you all best accept the common goodness we all have and stop argueing about you being right and cutting don others.

i've tried to show scriptures and say hey but it also says this. i don't say i'm right your wrong, i and then insult. others try to point things out too. that not everything is so is what you think it says, that here are other things that show different.

i and other try to say hey we have things that are similar and are the things that god really cares about that we do, yet some just can't accept that and have to be the rightous correct one for some reason.

it's very sad that people can't just say , hey glad you love god & jesus and that we both await and want the same things.hope the best for you and other positive things, etc. etc.

i've done that so many times here but only have been responded to by just 2 people with positive comments in return.

everyone else just love to argue and feed that self rightousness.

[peace2all]

well the bible shows supposed geneology of adam but fails to fill open gaps that are important.

to have adam & eve in the garden then right after being cast out they have cain & abel . then to have it show adams geneology that says adam had seth at age 120 but not mention cain or abel or anyone else leaves much open. it makes no sence to leave out so much if it happened and who was there.

point is much is up in the air and not literal for someone to think they know everything and can comprehend everything in the bible and then to claim there only right.

[peace2all]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 17 2010,05:34)

P2a, Only responding to one part above regarding Cain – not disagreeing with anything. People in those days lived for hundreds of years. As Adam and Eve's children had more children (Not all are named – notice how the females are not mentioned until reference to Cain's wife? raising the question: Where did Cain get his Wife?)) they would come to know of Cain's murderous act and God was anxious that murder was not seen as a thing to be propagated. see more if interested in this in what I feel is a useful (best I've seen so far anyway): http://www.gotquestions.org/Cain-afraid.html as you say, noone knows for certain but as long as we believe in a faithful way with a Godly spirit we should be able to discern outlandish and patent falseness from highly potential Truth.

not saying i don't have faith or against god or the bible, but things are missing, left out, things are literal and things are used as illutstration.

not everything is what one may think and to hve people always saying that there way is only right and that they are more knowledgeable or rightous becasue they read scriptures over and pver for the last 20 -40 years doesn't make anyone better or right over another.

so much is not even needed for our standing with god to be right or wrong, yet some think tht every little detail is and love to show their self rightous attitude over and over.

everyone here that is christian faith related have the same core beleifs as far as who gets the worship and who is the savior and mediatior, and to lead a godly life and try to fill ones life with god & jesus as support.

yet some will not use that foundation to strengthen themselves or others in that unity but choose to find error in anything to make them better.

its pathetic

you think god cares what you think about conception of jesus and use that towards judging you.

i hardly doubt it. but im sure he looks to those who think they are self rightous and holding themselves greater and judging others.

[peace2all]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2010,02:06)

hi P2a you tell me to look at all scriptures,well let see,why would God do anything for man after Adam coruption??? just eliminate the problem by destroy the first couple ,story ends ,problem solved??? NO this is not God s way so what was the reason why God did not destroy Adam and eve after there sin.?????? could you answer my last question??

what are you rambling about now?
what does this have to do with anything?

who's talking about sin or adam?

are you really sure that adam & eve were the only people on earth?

genesis says that there was adam & eve then they had cain & abel. cain killed abel then cain was cast out even further away from eden.

he complained about revenge so god put up a sign to not kill him

who is going to kill him if there was only adam & eve and cain?

also god had personal relationships with all, speaking to them and such.

where did these lands they were cast out to named by. bible lists names of lands outside eden but never the origin of how they came to be.

then it goes on to say he married, who did he marry? there is no mention to anyone else.

adams geneology history in genesis chapter 5 shows seth only to adam.

there are many things left out or possibly not everthing is literal.

when noah was around it mentions ankim's, men of old that he says were already there and not from their lineage

was adam & eve god's chosen people placed on earth with others and were a experement for god to see if sheltered from the ourside world lived to ways. that would explain other races and other blank wholes in genesis. the bible doesn't say that adam & eve were the only one around, just in the garden of eden.

we don't know its not very specific. the time frame is not even really known during creation time or not. hebrew language says ages or something to that effect and only during english translation does it turn into literal days.

one really needs to look at all the scriptures and read them. things are left out , things are literal, things are not literal.

one cannot just assume and say god used miracles as only answer to keep things true if there is no true conclusion.

one cannot just say my way is right and yuors is wrong. you don't know for sure, noone really does.

but if you believe in a god and your life being for him in worship and faith is required, not some of these things that have no direct link to salvaiton.

that is what makes me sick when people think they are so rightous over others on things tha matter not or are not even things that can be really proven literal or not.

thinking that they know all, and that they read the same scritures everyday so that means they are right because of that.

one can think anything they want if its wrong the first time its gonig to always be wrong no matter how much you read it.

however faith and worship is what mattters. god cared about not worshiping false god's and not living ungodly lives. that was it.

what did jesus keep saying, worship only god and live a good moral life.

all these other topics for some reason tend to make people think that they think they know all and a re so rightous and right and better. makes no difference to god.

only maks one look self rightous and fooled minded.

you think i care if you disagree with me. NO, does it matter what i think, NO.

do i think that you have faith and worship for your beleif. YES.
doesn't make me think you more or less imprtant to god.

teaching was done by jesus, preaching work is done by anyone else who follows.

jesus didn't say teach, he said preach. its what is inside us that makes that seed grow either good fruit or bad.

good fruit can be grown with your view or mine as long as we strive to stay away from this worlds wickedness and live for god.

[peace2all]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,15:22)

P2A you confused ,Jesus is not God, 1)he said he is the Son of God not God . 2)he is from God because he is the only begotten son of God. 3)sins he is begotten son it is obvious that he as the qualities of his father . 4)sins God placed him to fulfill his will it is normal that he received the powers to do the job. 5)so God place into his hands to execute all the judgments required to bring live to those who have faith in him and is father,this does not make him the father . you are mix up

ok whatever you say.

i've shown scriptures that tell otherwise.

son of the living god.

to them god was living by means of the son born to them .

does it not mean anything to yuo that they worshiped jesus and called him thier god yet never corrected them.

he is not GOD the invisible almighty, but his nature and word put into that son born of god's own spirit.

he just insant this seperate entity of his own accord and will or nature.

genesis mentions not of jesus but only god & the holy spirit and the means of creation by god speaking of things and it being created.

obviously if jesus is called the word and that they are the same and having always been and he is refered to as the living word made flesh that he is too part of god and not this seperate thing.

in man form spirit son yes but thats it.

god shares glory with no one yet jesus does? makes no sense then. is the bible contradicting itself?

only worship one god, yet his apostles also acknowledged jesus as their god.

now it would have been wrong if in fact they were totally seperate yet since he didn;t correct them and did the opposite saying that they see him for who he was.

you ignore many scriptures.

the only ones you adhere to are ones that talk about jesus's authority position to the father.

that doesn't hold any water in the arguemnet about if he was means of god's own nature and word and spirit here in flesh to show us his will with intamicy face to face instead of written stone words.

that doesn't show any proof that jesus was a son to a father as our minds can comprehend that meaning to us.

you cling to just a earthly title instead of looking at all the scriptures showing you the truth of his nature and connection to god himself.

[peace2all]

human lived with dinosaurs? but there is no proof whatesoever..

no carving,painting,text.. no nothing stating man and dino lived together.

i don't think many of the stories in the bible are literal.

some things just don't add up to it all being literal.

EX: adam & eve had cain & abel. cain killed abel and then cast away by god. why did he cry out about being killed for his actions by others and god putting up as sign not to touch him.. unless there were others already living on earth.

ten it says cain had a wife.. where she come from? nothing mentioned of any other people in genesis at that time.

where did all the races of peole come from? noah and his few sons and wifes would have been most likely one race.

there were not that many people living then and the whole world to them could have been the region they lived in.

there are also other accounts of loods in different cultures and world areas. maybe god had placed man ans woman all over and was doing the same thing, thats why religions are all different but many same base ideas.

maybe god made adam & eve in more than one location but were referenced t those two names only.

noah said there was nephlim or anakim on earth that were not descendents of adam that were already around. where they from?

some things sound better that oh god used a miracle to do this or hide that or achieve something.

[peace2all]

Quote (banana @ Jan. 16 2010,06:17)

Quote (peace2all @ Jan. 16 2010,01:41) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:55) P2A Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?” Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared. Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted. Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him? Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.” Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies Jn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.” Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!” Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?” Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?” Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.” Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will. Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.” i will not comment this . T, i can post many scriptures that state jesus is eternal and giving himself status as that which god has. he is part of god for he is th ecomplete reflection of god. he is not some spirit being that is of his own occord or self reliance without having such intricate untiy with god as it clearly states by himself over and over. no he is not the invisible god almighty but a means that god used himself as way to communicate. it has been done before and i have shown scritures and i notice noone even touches those becasue they are true and cannot be broken does not mean that the “son” is to be worshiped as the GOd or is another GOD to worship in anyway. he has his place in power and rank as how it was shown to man in our easy to grasp understanding of father and son relationship. clearly within the bible it repeats ver and over how there unity is so deep that ne cannot think that jesus is just a good order taker and listner. he clearly had god's attributes and words onearth and was in complete unity with him as to why he could do all those things. it doesnt take away the intimate connection to him since he was brought forth just for that, the untouchable, unreachable god is now reachable through his way from christ. i love and thank god for bringing forth as man who was from god's spirit called his son in our eyes that had all of god's words and messages and will to show s what he really wants from us instead of it just being wtitten on stone. he taught how to do them in physical sense. look what he has done for all of us here and over the world. he has made your faith and worship so strong that we fill our lives with it dedicated to him. thats what he wants, even though some difference are there we all are filling our lives with him and are not doing the things/desires of flesh and are being masters of sin. his love sheds on us all. Jesus was a begotten Son of God.  He had a beginning and did not existed always like His Father did.  He now has deity, but to become like us He had to empty Himself to become flesh.  These Scriptures are clear. Col. 1:15-17 and Rev. 3:14 God the Father gave Jesus all the power to create all.  He also is the firstborn from the death.  Col. 1:1 We also know that nobody has heard His voice or seen His form of our Heavenly Father.  John 5 :37.  So whenever you hear of God speaking it is the word of God who became Jesus John 1:14 There is a tread preexisting of Jesus and the debate is good. No matter what the Pharisees or the Scribes or the Jew's said at that time, Jesus knew that He was going to die, it does not matter what any of them said.  It is because of that reason that Jesus came to earth to do the will of His Father in Heaven.  Did they believe in Him you asked?  I don't think so, they wanted Him dead. Irene

the conception was of god's own spirit broght forth from womb and his word and wisdom being given that spirit seed of god.

i still think its funny how everyone ignores all the scriptures that show god as having come to man before in sight and speech. not the almighty invisible god but his own means of himself .

this is what/who jesus really is

it clearly falls into this whole image of what god is. jesus was clearly from god.

he clearly had god's word and wisdom and spirit.

he clearly can do what the father knows because thats what has filled him.

he is not some seperate thing in all. there is total unity with the father in all aspects.

you are right, it doesn't matter really, this is not a subject that will reflect your salvation or not.

however jesus in the scriptures is stated as eternal and divine
not only as titles as everlasting father , immanuel or god or son of the living god and many others. “the word” was god and is god and was with god from old.

there are others but all say that they are united and having always been.

not the jesus human form however but that unity of god and his word and wisdom and nature are.

it explains why the old testemant was for the jews and they were his people and were laws and stories for them at that time.

a lot of those stories seem to be illistration of his commandments for them later brought on by moses.

a foreshadow of things that might come. like abraham & issac. the whole father and son sacrifice thing. then god does it with jesus.

the new testement was god's word again in flesh not written for the whole world.

god's word , nature , wisdom , came to ea
rth in a son made of the fathers spirit to show us.

so much of the bible is not literal or missing all information.

ex: adam & eve had cain and abel, then cain gets shut out then crys about getting killed so god puts up a sign for noone to kill him.

who is going to kill him unless there were already people on earth.

it says he married? yet there is only mentioned of two sons. then in adams geneology it has seth as his first son and nothing about cain and abel. then there are these areas that they get pushed off to after eden.

where did they come from, they must have been there with people already.
then in moses time about the nephlim or anakim.. there were obviouly other people besides adam & eve. for it says that they were there before and will after.

were adam & eve there for the start of the jews? that would make sense since it was them who are his people and all else new god as the god of the jews.

that would esplain why there are many races. otherwise noah and his wife and 3 sons and wives will not make different color people if all same race.

also if the whole world flood why does adam & eve start of in that region and then noah after this terrible horrfic flood not drift them anywhere else, they jut happened to stay in the same region… sounds kinda funny.

not everything is literal or so simple.

i think that the bible is not all need t obe read and interpreted to be given salvation from our worship. there are messages and illistrations and stories in it and also guidence and warnings and rewuirements laid out in it.

not saying that it isn't important but that certain things are not a required to be saved or to have yuorself not plucked from god's hand.

i enjoy conversations with all here adn by what i read that all have passion and love for the scriptures and jesus and god.

thats the main purpose. we all keep those key elements in our life and we will lead our life to a better loving way adn distant from the passing worlds influence.

with the way things are going i wish his kingdom would be now. it hurts to see things as they are. even if to god i wasn't doing all i needed i still would wish it to come and get rid of this hurt and dispare for mankind,

[peace2all]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:55)

P2A Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?” Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared. Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted. Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him? Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.” Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies Jn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.” Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!” Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?” Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?” Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.” Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will. Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.” i will not comment this .

T,
i can post many scriptures that state jesus is eternal and giving himself status as that which god has.

he is part of god for he is th ecomplete reflection of god.

he is not some spirit being that is of his own occord or self reliance without having such intricate untiy with god as it clearly states by himself over and over.

no he is not the invisible god almighty but a means that god used himself as way to communicate.

it has been done before and i have shown scritures and i notice noone even touches those becasue they are true and cannot be broken

does not mean that the “son” is to be worshiped as the GOd or is another GOD to worship in anyway.

he has his place in power and rank as how it was shown to man in our easy to grasp understanding of father and son relationship.

clearly within the bible it repeats ver and over how there unity is so deep that ne cannot think that jesus is just a good order taker and listner.

he clearly had god's attributes and words onearth and was in complete unity with him as to why he could do all those things.

it doesnt take away the intimate connection to him since he was brought forth just for that, the untouchable, unreachable god is now reachable through his way from christ.

i love and thank god for bringing forth as man who was from god's spirit called his son in our eyes that had all of god's words and messages and will to show s what he really wants from us instead of it just being wtitten on stone.

he taught how to do them in physical sense.

look what he has done for all of us here and over the world.

he has made your faith and worship so strong that we fill our lives with it dedicated to him.

thats what he wants, even though some difference are there we all are filling our lives with him and are not doing the things/desires of flesh and are being masters of sin.

his love sheds on us all.

[peace2all]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,12:55)

P2A Jn 7:7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. Jn 7:45 Finally the temple guards went back to the chief priests and Pharisees, who asked them, “Why didn’t you bring him in?” Jn 7:46 “No one ever spoke the way this man does,” the guards declared. Jn 7:47 “You mean he has deceived you also?” the Pharisees retorted. Jn 7:48 “Has any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed in him? Jn 7:49 No! But this mob that knows nothing of the law—there is a curse on them.” Jn 7:50 Nicodemus, who had gone to Jesus earlier and who was one of their own number, asked Jn 8:33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” Jn 8:34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Jn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. Jn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies Jn 9:24 A second time they summoned the man who had been blind. “Give glory to God,’” they said. “We know this man is a sinner.” Jn 9:25 He replied, “Whether he is a sinner or not, I don’t know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!” Jn 9:26 Then they asked him, “What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?” Jn 9:27 He answered, “I have told you already and you did not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you want to become his disciples, too?” Jn 9:28 Then they hurled insults at him and said, “You are this fellow’s disciple! We are disciples of Moses! Jn 9:29 We know that God spoke to Moses, but as for this fellow, we don’t even know where he comes from.” Jn 9:30 The man answered, “Now that is remarkable! You don’t know where he comes from, yet he opened my eyes. Jn 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will. Jn 9:32 Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. Jn 9:33 If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.” i will not comment this .

Jn 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God

yes he did come from god, he is the word of god made flesh not a seperate thing of his own that was just always there on his own.

he is part of god's nature, word, wisdom , spirit

[peace2all]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2010,09:48)

hi P2a No, it is not because he call himself the son of God that the pharisees where after him ,it was because there big EGO that Jesus openly tells everyone how they are hypocrites and don't follow the law themselves but add some laws for the people to bear but they won't apply it to them. that why he has to be killed because he could turn the people away from them and they could loose the eminence and first place and father status ,they were more concerned with themselves than anything else, EGO to murder.

i just don't think that is true. they could have said or done anything if they wanted him dead.

they did not want him dead for his remarks of them or the things he had done but the repeated responce that he and hte fahter are one and are in each other and claims of divinity but being a man.

john 10 clearly shows jesus feeding that fire that they had in regards to that sensitive speach of his and he didn't try to fix that.

he continued to say thathtey are is sheep and he knows his sheep.. but how can he know this if he had just come and started to preach god's own words and miracles.

he knew because he was in unity with god due to the fact that only for our perspective is he the son of god but he is god's way of bringing his word and commands into flesh for mankind instead of wriiten stone.

he is not some spirit son god bore.

he states that he can lay down his life on his own and can bring it back again. then he says that they cannot be plucked from his hand as also with god and that god is so much better than all,

that he asn the father are on, they are in each other. etc. etc.

apostles call him GOD and he acknowledgers that they do see him for who he is.

so much more to list also…. there is a cxomplex unity in god and no one can deny it.

jesus was god's spirit brought forth into flesh and given his words and works.

he was part of god as his way to communicate to us.

he has done this before to certain people.

abram – appears to him and he sees god
abraham – same thing
moses and others – apears to them

burning bush
joseph in a dream

etc. etc. – god can be in two places at once. god the unseen invisible almighty was not, but his means of communication via vessels with his spirit and words have.

this does not make jesus another GOD and to be worshiped as only the father should, he clearly had his role and relation to his importance in the illistratin of a family role that we humans can understand.

[peace2all]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 12 2010,16:27)

Quote (peace2all @ Jan. 12 2010,05:37) the unity is complex Not really! On in unified in the Spirit of Righteousness.  What is complex about that? John 14:6-14(NIV) reads: Quote Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.” Jesus answered: “Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. In other words you see God though Jesus' words and actions and you see Jesus though the words and actions of those who believe in him as he does his works through them.   Those who are truly Christians and so walk according to the ways of the Spirit are Jesus' proxies on earth.

ok whatever you say its so easy and nothing complex about anything.

funny thing is though, when jesus was alive and was there to be that word and works of god, they too were very confused.

even with having him right there to talk to to.

jesus would have to say things many many times and even dumb it down a bit with illistrations and still have people not fully grasping it. even his apostles.

but of course its easy that must be why the apostles worshiped him as their GOD right on many occasions yet never being corrected .

the pharesees wanting to kill him for continueing to say to them that he was from god, his nature and word and will and spirit. thus giving himself status with god.

your right everything is not complex at all in the unity of them and how one fits and fills each role.

you can continue to think that they are just like man in relation to seperatism but it is not so as by how jesus spoke of himself and his father.

their unity far surpasses our own and our own understanding obviously.

[peace2all]

the bible states that god and the holy spirit created the earth in genesis.

the bible also says that jesus is eternal.

the bible says that god's words created all . EX:( and god said let there be light)
jesus was brought forth by his spirit not from man, and thus given the spirit to be the word and wisdom of god. he is a way that god had communicated to mankind.

god has done this many times before. god has come to man in burning bush, as angel in dreams, to man as angel etc.

not the invisible god, source of all but his means of communication. god has been in more places than one ans scripture shows it.

god's written laws and his words were manifested from his spririt into a flesh man called jesus. he did god's will and spoke his words. that is all he knew and stressed this many times. that he and god were one, were in each other, he could only do god's will etc..

there is unity. i don't think that jesus was the invisible god in itself but a way for god to communticate. either way it was/is of god. the nature and word's and works were of god himself.

there is unity and nothing of seperate means as many think. jesus said he was not greater than god or equal to in regards to the relationship and for mans own worships.

he was in unity with god in spirit,word,wisdom,works. nothing he did was of his own accord.

neither trinity believers or non trinity beleivers believe that jesus is GOD and should be worshiped as GOD. only the father is to be given that privilage.

this is so not important to our salvation from god. does not hinder it in any way.

worship only GOD as the almighty and folllow his will as shown by jesus and do it with your whole heart,mind.

god, jesus and the holy spirit have always been, they are eternal. never having a beginning for they are from the same source.

[peace2all]

the unity is complex

[peace2all]

jesus was a flesh vessel made by god's own spirit not that of man. god then gave his spirit to that spirit created man, thus giving him god's word and wisdom and his perfect spirit.

he is a vessel created by god for the purpose of showing mankind his word in flesh instead of written and for allowing that perfect ransom to make our sins forgivable through repentance.

[peace2all]

genesis says that god made all and then his holy spirit went to and fro over the earth also.

i have yet to see where in the most crucial place in the bible to tell one that god was not alone would say something, yet i cannot find it after reading it.

also “the word” is used to describe god's actual inspired words, the bible and also god using his word to create the earth but saying”and god said let there be light” etc.. also i beleive that the holy spirit has been refered to the word.

has one ever heard of the expression ” i stand by my words”

??
how can this be, you might ask, not eveything is literal.

the bible also says that in the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was god. and same for god.

the wisdom(word) of god was always there as god was just always there. that his wisdom wasn't something that he learned but is what he is also. they both were always.

jesus is god's wisdom & words incarnate via visible copy of god as stated in bible, or

after being changed, that the scripture means and the word is a god, yet then say he is a angel.

it seems that the verse is changed and made it to say is a god to have jesus and god easily put in a nice package for them.

people fight and defend that their father and son is just like us human experience yet, i have yet to hear one say that , a father and son are in each other or are one or only can do the will of one, etc..

there unity is so much more and to think there is none and that they are so seperate is not depictided in the bible clearly at all. one only argues that the status of one is lower in relation and standing. however that is not a solid ideal for argument for it has no bearing in god' complex unity at all.

also people calling others ignorant becasue they do not come to the same conclusion to another is i'm sure not acceptable to god or jesus and would call you out for that.

[peace2all]

god and the holy spirit is what is mentioned in genesis. by god saying (words) he created. by having his spirit go to and fro, helped forge the earth and all.

now i know that there is scripture that mentions being beside god.

however….have you not heard the expression ” i stand by my word”

hmm … how can a man stand by or next to his word??

not everything is literal.

jesus is god's word made flesh, jesus the man was born of his spirit and not of man.

unity is complex with god, we will never understand all, it is possible that our unity with god is more than what we think also. we truely don't know or might never be able to comprehend.

[peace2all]

i agree that his example is not so far above reach, that is why god made his word flesh so that there is a intimate visual understanding, not some words written down.

he came to show how to live by those laws, by his teachings.

does he retain that form of man, maybe and maybe not. maybe he does only amongst men. who really knows. i could care less, it doesn't make me love him or respect him less or more if so. it might matter to you , thats fine. but to read some people arguing and fighting about these petty things as if one is more faithful and rightous than another was my point in this topic you had.

does it matter at all in regards to anything. nope, just a topic to argue about is all.

gene, so what everyone goes to heaven now and the earth that god loves so much is not part of his plan as it has always been since the start?

i don't know about you but if god's kingdom is supposed to be on earth as in heaven and adam & eve had flesh and bone and blood, why would we not after his kingdom is established on earth?

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