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[olive]

N3n1,

You are well loved and well received with me, you are quicker on the keyboard then I am. I emphasize w/ you regarding the 'hurt and tears' have been there before, myself. Prayer is very powerful, and even though some may not speak it out, it does not mean that one is not prayed for. I am not one that is quick on the draw w/ scriptures, some that post OY VEY !!, I must sometimes wait and be led by the spirit in what to say, I do not want to be found in any other way.

I have been mainly on the trinity board w/ wj, and it was I who stated that 'man strives to be a god everyday', if he choses to do the same that was up to him. I am not afraid to speak it out.

Now, if one feels that this board is full of unbelievers, then shake your cloak off and go, preach to another. Others will stay and do the work that we are to do, preach to the lost, bring in his flock.

If ones that hurt, and only say they are sorry for the words, and not sorry that they hurt one of his children, is their burden to bear.

I have not read many of this 'tim's' post, probably is good reason for it. I did however want to respond to what he said here

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Condemnation of heretics and blasphemers has been mandated from the earliest history of Israel and has been administered by the church to the present day.

Who who has not sinned, cast the first stone.

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The original Nicene Creed condemned all those who denied it.

You take on the universal faith, you are now under her rule.

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The Fifth Ecumenical Council condemned a host of heretics.

They live by the golden rule of man:
Whoever has the gold makes the rule.

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The Athanasian Creed condemns all who do not accept it.

Where do they have the right to judge a man's heart?

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These creeds have been accepted by millions of Christians for 1700 years, and the early church was equally as vigilant in condemning the gnostics.

Love it when one who teaches the trinity uses the word gnostics.
The church that you speak of would be upset w/ you only using 1700 years, I know this for truth, because I speak to one that tells me this all the time.

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This is a sad but necessary history, for the church does not have the ministry of condemnation but of reconciliation.

They also have created icons, false prayers, have the blood of the maryters on their hands.

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But the fact remains that those who do not believe in the gospel are already condemned.

This is sad, but true. Depending on what gospel you speak of also, which gospel are you referring too? I speak of the Good news, Christ.  

And this, not attacking the person, just the doctrine…….false teachings, if they proclaim the faith, then that is the person. This goliath teaching…….where are all the david's?

We should  never feel alone while we are here on this earth, never. For we are well taken care of:

Eph  because of this take ye up the whole armour of Yahweh, that ye may be able to resist in the day of the evil, and all things having done–to stand. Stand, therefore, having your loins girt about in truth, and having put on the breastplate of the righteousness, and having the feet shod in the preparation of the good-news of the peace; above all, having taken up the shield of the faith, in which ye shall be able all the fiery darts of the evil one to quench, and the helmet of the salvation receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the saying of Yahweh.

N3n1, you are scripture feed and spirit bred. proverbs 31.

Much love to you and yours.

[olive]

N3n1,

You go sister………….be careful of ones that say they are praying for you because some do make it past the ceiling and could be praying to another God, then the one that is the true and living Yah.

A house divided cannot stand……….

Enjoyed reading what you have posted.

[olive]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 08 2007,08:30)

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Could you maybe explain to me how those scriptures disprove the Trinitarian view or contradict these scriptures?

Wj, read the scriptures, they give account to the powers of the spirit. We are given a gift once the spirit is received, do you know what yours is?

Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for *for he shall not speak of himself*; but *whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak*: and he will shew you things to come.

WJ, maybe is it is because you only read the 'portion' of the verse, read all of it, w/o thinking of defending the trinity.

the spirit of truth

Joh 17:17 sanctify them in Thy truth, Thy word is truth;

what he hears, what he speaks,

Joh 3:34 for he whom God sent, the sayings of God he speaketh; for not by measure doth God give the Spirit;

show you things to come.

Joh 4:23 but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him;

Christ words that are written are truth, what he spoke was taught by the father, he told us of things to come. No difference. Christ did not come to glorify himself. Try to open your heart and hear the words, you are very good on cross referencing scripture.

Joh 7:18 `He who is speaking from himself his own glory doth seek, but he who is seeking the glory of him who sent him, this one is true, and unrighteousness is not in him;

Wj, you refer to:

Jn 16:15

Mat 7:9-11 `Or what man is of you, of whom, if his son may ask a loaf–a stone will he present to him? and if a fish he may ask–a serpent will he present to him? if, therefore, ye being evil, have known good gifts to give to your children, how much more shall your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?

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You know wj, there will be a day Praise YAH, that we will not have the scriptures to run to, to search. Only what the spirit brings forth, blessed be the day. Boy you really don’t like John 16:13-15 do you?

I have it highlighted in my scriptures? I think you missed the meaning to the statement,

Mar 13:11 `And when they may lead you, delivering up, be not anxious beforehand what ye may speak, nor premeditate, but whatever may be given to you in that hour, that speak ye, for it is not ye who are speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

You reference: Matt 5:

Let's dicuss this on another thread, what I was meaning, you think you have the purest form of scriptures, if this be so, why is the warning giving:

Rev 22:19 and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;'

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We should run to the scriptures for they… 1 Pet 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. You have settled a challenge, that I ask earlier, explain your trinity theory to a child, I did this with my son, once I learned of these teachings, he looked at me like where is my mother and what have you done w/ her. WJ, you ask: You say… No wj, I just like the words grace and favor, they appeal to me. Why the sarcasm?

Does grace and favor not appeal to you? How can that be sarcasm. It is salvation.

You say…

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Sounds too much like legion………..wj I am of one spirit, not many. I assume the “One Spirit” you speak of is the Father, is that correct?

Then I will assume that the many spirit's you have dwelling in you are not legion? So you are saying w/ what you write, that Christ is above the Father.

That the spirit is of Christ…….not of Yahweh.

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Do you have “2 Spirits”, the Father and the Son?

No, Wj, I said of one spirit, the same spirit as Christ, Paul, Peter, John, Moses, Abraham, Luke. I worship the same Yah also, the one that puts forth his spirit, decends like a dove.

You ask:

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Can you give me an example of anything in creation that is totally singular?

The begotten son.

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If you are married you are one flesh with your husband yet you are separate persons.

1Co 11:3 and I wish you to know that of every man the head is the Christ, and the head of a woman is the husband, and the head of Christ is God.

Family, WJ…..family.

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Why is it so hard to believe that God is One and yet plural.

Why is it so hard for you to believe, that you are part of that plural, that you speak of?

I said…

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I must not be doing a good job here, because I never said the Spirit is a “different Spirit”. You said… AND HIS PEOPLE STOOD TOGETHER SAYING AMEN !!!!!! Thanks for the “much love to you wj, may his peace be upon you”, words of encouragement!

WJ, I love you, my friend. Nothing more nothing less.

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HMMM. Not sure what you mean but, if you are implying that Jesus is flesh and blood, are you saying that is all that he is? “Flesh and Blood”.

wj, straw…….

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We have just seen scriptures that says Jesus is Spirit. You seem a little angry here. Could you elaborate on what exactly you mean?

Not angry wj, I did not write in anger, I have been given correction in my anger. You wrote to Nick, that (cannot find the post) in the manner that you just realized that Nick does not believe the Father is a person, which I stand in agreement w/ Ken and Nick, hence flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom.

Person is flesh, I am a person, you are a person, Yahweh is not a person……..that is why we are given spiritual bodies when we enter the kingdom. Yahweh is not flesh, he sent the flesh to us, being the word, being the fullness of him. Christ returned to Yahweh in spirit.

scripture feed and spirit bred.

Much love to you and yours wj.

[olive]

Isa 11:2  Rested on him hath the Spirit of Jehovah, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and might, The spirit of knowledge and fear of Jehovah.

1Co 12:8  for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;

Exo 31:3  and I fill him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all work,

1Sa 19:9  And a spirit of sadness from Jehovah is unto Saul, and he is sitting in his house, and his javelin in his hand, and David is playing with the hand,

2Sa 23:2  The Spirit of Jehovah hath spoken by me, And His word is on my tongue.

Job 4:9  From the breath of God they perish, And from the spirit of His anger consumed.

Ecc 7:9  Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry, For anger in the bosom of fools resteth.

Isa 4:4  If the Lord hath washed away The filth of daughters of Zion, And the blood of Jerusalem purgeth from her midst, By the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isa 29:10  For poured out on you hath Jehovah a spirit of deep sleep, And He closeth your eyes–the prophets, And your heads–the seers–He covered.

So wj, what of all the scriptures above?

You seperate then combine, the seperate again. Blah. At least you did take one thing from my post. Danger, you use it quite frequently now, must have been painful to hear such words, due to the way you spat them back at me.

You know wj, there will be a day Praise YAH, that we will not have the scriptures to run to, to search. Only what the spirit brings forth, blessed be the day.

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Ok, I agree that the Spirit spoke to the men of old.

This is good.

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But you show 2 scriptures that dosnt even mention the Spirit and I am assuming you are trying to say that Gods Spirit is the Father that exclusively spoke to them or did the work.

No wj, I just like the words grace and favor, they appeal to me.

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They are all living within us!

Sounds too much like legion………..wj
I am of one spirit, not many.

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God = Father, Son And Holy Ghost!

wj, are you using reference as accordingly:
Man=Nick,T8, Ken
Woman=olive, not3in1, charity

You have three titles to one God, without one being God. Seperate then combine.

wj, if you even for a moment think you have the purest form of scriptures………..

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I must not be doing a good job here

AND HIS PEOPLE STOOD TOGETHER SAYING AMEN !!!!!!

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Clearly there is One God, Three Persons, and One Spirit!

You cannot attach a person (flesh) title to spirit, for flesh and blood do not enter into the kingdom, need I say it slower

F L E S H   A N D  B L O O D,   D O   N O T   E N T E R    T H E   K I N G D O M.

Which gives the groaning and wailing of DANGER DANGER.

[olive]

Wj,

In the Hebrew scriptures, Yahweh chose men, due to their faith and works, abraham, noah, david, moses, joesph.

When these were chosen they received grace, or Yahweh's spirit. David speaks much of this.

Psa 84:11  For a sun and a shield is Jehovah God, Grace and honour doth Jehovah give. He withholdeth not good To those walking in uprightness.

Gen 6:8  And Noah found grace in the eyes of Jehovah.

In receiving this grace, the spirit of Yahweh, would speak to them, come in dreams.

Now there is no denying this, if you do then I truly feel there is no hope for you.

Luk 2:40  and the child grew and was strengthened in spirit, being filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him.

So, we know that the spirit was, is.

Now, I know this might be a little hard to handle, since you are one that runs to the scriptures and says 'See it is written', but you must remember (why I want to call you david, I don't know) WJ, the spirit is the teacher, you have repeatedly used the scripture w/ the word 'another', now mind you wj, we know that scripture was altered, but the spirit cannot be altered, it does not teach of another.

So, how can one 'claim' that the spirit is a different one. The spirit has been established, even through the Hebrew scriptures.

Now, I know you defend the trinity w/ your life. Your zeal is heard and seen with your words.

See, Wj, through Christ's prayer to Yahweh, no longer do we have to wait upon the Father to chose us, when we accept Christ, we are given the spirit.

Why do you think the Holy is added to the spirit all the time.

Isa 6:3  And this one hath called unto that, and hath said: `Holy, Holy, Holy, is Jehovah of Hosts, The fulness of all the earth is His glory.'

Luk 4:18  `The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because He did anoint me; To proclaim good news to the poor, Sent me to heal the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives deliverance, And to blind receiving of sight, To send away the bruised with deliverance,

Joh 14:26  and the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and remind you of all things that I said to you.

There is not another.

Joh 15:26  `And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father–the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;

John 14.16, is the only scripture that reads another comforter, why is that wj, why does John 14.26, 15.26, 16.7 only read comforter?

Isa 23:4  Also–when I walk in a valley of death-shade, I fear no evil, for Thou art with me, Thy rod and Thy staff–they comfort me.

Why would not the spirit testify of Christ? Christ testified of Yahweh, as being the true and living God. They are one.

There is a new teaching of the trinity, the word they use is 'seperatness', since they have to defend this, just as the councils did, they must create to secure their doctrine.

We don't have to be creative w/ words, to understand the meaning of scriptures.

I truly feel that John 4, was the proper scripture to bring to you. Christ speaks of 'you know not what your worship, we worship what we know'. Yahweh is spirit, and those worshipping him, need to worship in truth and spirit.

The spirit teaches, not of another.

Blessings on your endeavor to find the truth, worship in spirit, for Yahweh so searches for those that do.

much love to you wj, may his peace be upon you.

[olive]

Psa 31:5 Into Thy hand I commit my spirit, Thou hast redeemed me, Jehovah God of truth.

Psa 143:10 Teach me to do Thy good pleasure, For Thou art my God–Thy Spirit is good, Lead me into a land of uprightness.

[olive]

Sorry Wj.

I get fustrated sometimes. It is no laughing matter regarding our salvation. Please forgive.

[olive]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 06 2007,06:51)

Wj you ask me to explain this, you are referring to this passage yes?

Eph 4:3-6
being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of the peace;
one body and *one Spirit*, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in you all, (emphasis WJ)

Let's use your trinity method.

one body
one Spirit
one Lord
one faith
one baptism
one God
—————
6

now, don't think me strange, but the number six is not one of my favorites.

[olive]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2007,06:26)

Quote (olive @ June 06 2007,06:21) Kiss the Son. psalms, something there, second time I heard the verse today. It's a favorite along with “Come out of her!” Ha!

Sorry, n3n1, I have read this twice today, once from an elder I chat w/ and now w/ Nick, that's all.

I have read more come out of her, then Kiss the Son, if we are casting lots.

If you took this as more, my apologies, no offense given.

much love

[olive]

Kiss the Son.

psalms, something there, second time I heard the verse today.

[olive]

Unfortunatly for you K, even if you say there is no third person, “Comforter”, you still have to conclude if Gods Spirit as you say is God and there is only one Spirit then that makes Jesus God.

RED FLAG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DANGER, DANGER…..

If you believe this to be true WJ, and by what you preach,then you yourself are calling yourself a god.

You cannot divide the spirit, we could not be family if you did, we could not unite as one body under the same spirit. Because you claim the spirit is another.

OY VEY !!!!!!!!!!!!

You seperate, then combine. How can that be, we are one body, we serve one Yah, we have one master. They stand together, united. They do not seperate then combine again.

Eph 4:3-6 being diligent to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of the peace;
one body and one Spirit, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in you all,

[olive]

Hey W,

It seems there is a thread already prepared to speak of truth and spirit.

You know Wj, I have ask for revelation to give, all weekend. Searched the scriptures.

And the only thing I have is this:

Who is truth?
Who is spirit?

Why are we told in John that Yahweh seeks those worshipping in truth and spirit

If the trinity teachings were correct, then this verse leaves them one short. Because it is written he is only seeking two things, truth and spirit.

Will await your response.

much love

[olive]

Wonderful Wj,

Now you must understand, the thought came, so I have a starting point…….father willing I am spending the weekend w/ my family and friends…sabbath and all that……so it could be a bit before I post.

I am so excited Wj, can't wait to see what fruit comes out of this.

I do know the passage that comes to mind is John 4

blessings

[olive]

Truly Wj,

It must be:

Love the way the spirit works, Praise YAH !!!

I have a subject, came to me this evening and you were the one I wanted to discuss it with, imagine that.

Truth and Spirit…………..

This subject okay with you. Let me know……….

blessings

[olive]

and that our flight may not be in winter nor the sabbath, that we may be counted worthly not to see the things that come to pass only to see the Son of Man, to be found worshipping in truth and spirit, for you so seek this.

[olive]

Is wrote:

[/quote]
6who, although He existed (Gr. huparcho) * in the form (Gr. Morphe)** of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped (Gr. harpagamos)***,

Sorry, no disrespect Isaiah, went back to your original post.

I know this may sound silly, but I thought it to be more in lines of metamorphism…..

Like the catapillar, emerges as a butterfly, same substance, different icon.

Thanks for being kind regarding the matter.

[olive]

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Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be *like him*, for we shall see him as he is.

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Tell me t8, are we to be like God or like a glorified man?

WJ,

We do see things different, in the passage cited above, I take this as his coming and gathering his flock.

And again the question that you generate, makes no sense to the passage that is cited.

Please stop w/ the confusion and rightly divide scriptures.

If you want to be a 'god', then you are following in the footsteps of man, they strive for it every day.

If you want to be his servant, then boldly step up to the throne.

What your words speak to me is that salvation is unattainable. I know this not to be true.

Christ is the fullness of Yahweh, not Yahweh himself.

Turn your foot straight, my friend. Walk his path.

[olive]

Hey Ken,

Thanks for sharing, AMEN to the house being on fire.

Yes, I sabbath. I love it, it is the most best day of the week for me.

I prepare for sabbath throughout the week. I don't cook, prepare double portions, don't spend money either. Most sabbaths are spent w/ friends and family. I don't do business of any kind (this took some getting used to by others). My son and I play a game, on the words we speak how many passages we can use.

Sabbath was what brought my son and I closer, healed a lot in my life.  

My son is very the outdoorsman, fishing is his favorite. I have three tackle boxes, and six rods in my kitchen. I still yet have to cook the 17.5 inch trout he caught a couple weeks ago.
Mind you, the boy is only seven. I have asked Christ, to ensure enough space will be given. Between the fishing gear, the waterfowl gear and now he is getting into turkey…….he is patiently waiting when he can hunt deer……we will need room for such things and a larger deep freeze.

So, we are outdoors a lot, like you said exploring and enjoying his creation and with my son, creatures……….

In reading scriptures, Yahweh stresses the importance of Sabbath, so that sent up a red flag.

I fully understand, worshipping in spirit and truth. When I first started Sabbath….it was a bit overwhelming for me, maybe it was so different, then as each sabbath past, what I thought to be a burden, was no longer.

I have had some wonderful sabbath's and there have been one's w/ correction. I can remember one, where I know a spiritual battle was raging. Wasn't pretty.

Much love to you and yours Ken.

[olive]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 24 2007,08:26)

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NH, what do you think “morphe” means?

Okay, Isaiah I give what does it mean?

[olive]

Hey Ken,

So how do you Sabbath ?
If this is too personal, just let me know.

much love

[Author]

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