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[nayasnana]

This is my understanding. Yes, hell is eternal. However, the Book of Revelation is symbolic. Revelation 1:1 says, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John.” Signified here means, “a sign.”

Gehenna-Valley of (the sons of) Hinnom ( The abode of condemned souls).
Tartarus (Greek)- the deep abyss of torment and suffering.
Hades-The grave. The place of bodily decay.
Sheol-A place of darkness to which the dead go. (Also known as Hades.)
All are different names for hell but, all describe the same torment and suffering.
**condemnation: to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation.
Would a loving God who considers every life precious send His creation into a fiery furnace to burn for evermore?
Is hell literally a fiery place of eternal torment?
MILLIONS of people have been taught by their religions that hell is a place where people are tormented. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, “The Roman Catholic Church teaches that hell . . . will last forever; its suffering will have no end.” This Catholic teaching, the encyclopedia goes on to say, “is still held by many conservative Protestant groups.” Hindus, Buddhists and Muhammadans also teach that hell is a place of torment. No wonder that people who have been taught this often say that if hell is such a bad place they do not want to talk about it.

Did Almighty God create such a place of torment? Look to scripture and see what God’s view was when the Israelites followed the examples of people who lived nearby began to burn their children in fire. God says in Jeremiah 7:31 “And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.”
Think about this. If the idea of roasting people in fire had never come into God’s heart, do you believe that He would create a fiery hell for people who chose not to serve Him. 1 John 4:8 “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”
Would a loving God really torment people forever? Would you do so? Knowing of God’s love should make us want to turn to scripture to discover what hell is, who goes there and how long will they be there.
(Webster’s Dictionary says that the English word “hell” is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades.)
The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, translated Sheol 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.” The Catholic Douay Version translated Sheol 64 times as “hell.” In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the “New Testament”), the King James Version translated Hades as “hell” each of the 10 times it occurs.—Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.
The question is: What kind of place is Sheol, or Hades? The fact that the King James Version translates the one Hebrew word Sheol three different ways shows that hell, grave and pit mean one and the same thing. And if hell means the common grave of mankind, it could not at the same time mean a place of fiery torture. So, do Sheol and Hades mean the grave or do they mean a place of torture?
Let’s be clear that the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades mean the same thing. This is shown by looking at Psalm 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption” in the Hebrew Scriptures. In Acts 2:31 “He seeing this before spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption” in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Notice that in quoting from Psalm 16:10 where Sheol occurs, Acts 2:31 uses Hades. Notice, too, that Jesus Christ was in Hades, or hell. Are we to believe that God tormented Christ in a hell of fire? Of course not! Jesus was simply in his grave.
When Jacob was mourning for his beloved son Joseph, who he thought had been killed, he said: “I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheol!” (Genesis 37:35) However, the King James Version here translates Sheol to “grave,” and the Douay Version translates it “hell.” Now, stop for a moment and think. Did Jacob believe that his son Joseph went to a place of torment to spend eternity there, and did he want to go there and meet him? Or, rather, was it that Jacob merely thought that his beloved son was dead and in the grave and that Jacob himself wanted to die?
Yes, good people go to the Bible hell. For example, the good man Job, who was suffering a great deal, prayed to God: “O that in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version] you would conceal me, . . . that you would set a time limit for me and remember me!” (Job 14:13) Now think: If Sheol means a place of fire and torment, would Job wish to go and spend his time there until God remembered him? Clearly, Job wanted to die and go to the grave that his sufferings might end.
In all the places where Sheol occurs in the Bible it is never associated with life, activity or torment. Rather, it is often linked with death and inactivity. For example, think about Ecclesiastes 9:10, which reads: “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.” (grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version. So the answer becomes very clear. Sheol and Hades refer not to a place of torment but to the common grave of mankind. (Psalm 139:8) “If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in [a]hell, behold, You are there.” Good people as well as bad people go to the Bible hell.
Can people get out of hell? Consider the case of Jonah. When God had a big fish swallow Jonah to save him from drowning, Jonah prayed from the fish’s belly: “And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.” Jonah 2:2.
What did Jonah mean by “out of the belly of hell?” That fish’s belly was surely not a place of fiery torment. But it could have become Jonah’s grave. In fact, Jesus Christ said regarding himself: “Just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” Matthew 12:40.
Jesus was dead and in his grave for three days. But the Bible reports: “His soul was not left in hell . . . This Jesus hath God raised up.” (Acts 2:31, 32, King James Version) Similarly, by God’s direction Jonah was raised from hell, that is, from what would have been his grave. This happened when the fish vomited him out onto dry land. Yes, people can get out of hell! In fact, the heartwarming promise is that hell (Hades) is to be emptied of all its dead. This can be seen by reading Revelation 20:13, which says: “The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [Hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”—King James Version.
Yet a lot of people will deny it saying: ‘The Bible does talk about hellfire and the lake of fire. Does this not prove that hell is a place of torment?’ True, some Bible translations, such as the King James Version, speak of “hell fire” and of being “cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched.” (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:45) All together there are 12 verses in the Christian Greek Scriptures where the King James Version uses “hell” to translate the Greek word Gehenna. Is Gehenna really a place of fiery torment, whereas when Hades is translated “hell” it simply means the grave? Clearly, the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades do mean the grave.
Well, then, what does Gehenna mean? In the Hebrew Scriptures Gehenna is “the valley Hinnom.” Remember, Hinnom was the name of the valley just outside the walls of Jerusalem where the Israelites sacrificed their children in the fire. In time, good King Josiah had this valley made unfit to be used for such a horrible practice. (2 Kings 23:10) It was turned into a huge garbage, or rubbish dump.
So during the time Jesus was on earth Gehenna was Jerusalem’s garbage dump. Fires were kept burning there by the adding of brimstone (sulfur) to burn up the garbage. Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible, Volume 1, explains: “It became the common lay-stall [garbage dump] of the city, where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals, and every other kind of filth was cast.” No live creatures, however, were cast there.
Knowing about their city’s garbage dump, Jerusalem’s inhabitants understood what Jesus meant when he told the wicked religious leaders: “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matthew 23:33) Jesus plainly did not mean that those religious leaders would be tormented. Why, when the Israelites were burning their children alive in that valley, God said that to do such a horrible thing had never come up into his heart! So it was clear that Jesus was using Gehenna as a fitting symbol of complete and everlasting destruction. He meant that those wicked religious leaders were not worthy of a resurrection. Those listening to Jesus could understand that those going to Gehenna, like so much garbage, would be destroyed forever.
What, then, is “the lake of fire” mentioned in the Bible book of Revelation? It has a meaning similar to that of Gehenna. It means not conscious torment but everlasting death, or destruction. Notice how the Bible itself says this at Revelation 20:14: “And death and Hades [hell, King James Version and Douay Version] were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.” Yes, the lake of fire means “second death,” the death from which there is no resurrection. It is evident that this “lake” is a symbol, because death and hell (Hades) are thrown into it. Death and hell cannot literally be burned. But they can, and will, be done away with, or destroyed.
What does it mean that the Devil will be tormented forever in “the lake of fire”? ‘Yet the Bible says that the Devil will be tormented forever in the lake of fire,’ someone may point out. (Revelation 20:10) What does this mean? When Jesus was on earth jailers were at times called “tormentors.” As Jesus said of a certain man in one of his illustrations: “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.” (Matthew 18:34, King James Version) Since those who are thrown into “the lake of fire” go into “second death” from which there is no resurrection, they are, so to speak, jailed forever in death. They remain in death as though in the custody of jailers for all eternity.
The wicked, of course, are not literally tormented because, as we have seen, when a person is dead he is completely out of existence. He is not conscious of anything.

[nayasnana]

In reference to (Tatian 165 A.D) Most Protestants will claim that the historic Christian faith can be determined from the Bible, but a simple comparison of the multitude of doctrines taught by Protestants makes it clear this is not true. The result of this is that early church history is left far too often to the revisionist history of the Roman Catholics. The word is in desperate need of a testimony like that of the apostles and their churches.

Fortunately, many writings have been left to us from all periods of church, even the earliest and it’s not difficult to determine what was important to the churches the apostles started. We see doctrines introduced at later periods into the teaching of the churches and we can see that those doctrines are not apostolic.

After the reign of Constantine and the first general council of the church at Nicea, two very significant events occurred.

One, the churches now had an official means to decree doctrine. Doctrines that were universal in the church before that time were very likely to have come from a common source, the apostles, because there was no hierarchy to establish new doctrines universally.

Two, most of the citizens of the Roman empire became Christians, making it almost impossible after Nicea to find anything resembling the churches before Nicea. No longer were the churches gatherings of those who had chosen the Christian faith against what was accepted in society. Now, the churches consisted mostly of those who were just doing what everyone else was doing. (This is evidenced by the awful behavior of the churches and their leaders after Nicea)

Jesus said that prophets were to be judged by their fruit. In early church history it is possible not just to see the apostolic or non-apostolic origin of doctrines, it’s also possible to see the fruit of new doctrines as they arrived on the scene.

The starting-point of Tatian’s theology is a strict monotheism, which becomes the source of the moral life. Originally the human soul possessed faith in one God, but lost it with the fall. In consequence, humanity sank under the rule of demons into the abominable error of polytheism. By monotheistic faith, the soul is delivered from the material world and from demonic rule and is united with God. God is spirit (pneuma), but not the physical or stoical pneuma; he was alone before the creation, but he had within himself the whole creation.

The means of creation was the dynamis logike (“power expressed in words”). At first there proceeded from God the Logos who, generated in the beginning, was to produce the world by creating matter from which the whole of creation sprang. ( I’m going to attempt more reseach on this since this “theology” of Tatian is conveying that Jesus was “created” in the heavens.) I’ve also began some research on the belief that Jesus was/is the Archangel Michael. It will take me a minute but, I’ll get back with you as soon as find something worth sharing. Pray for the Holy Spirit to lead me in this research. Be blessed

 

 

[nayasnana]

After God asks, “Who among them [your idols] has declared these things?” He then states, “The Lord loves him; He shall do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans…. I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper.” But who is “him”? The first part of this as “The Lord’s chosen ally [because allies are elsewhere referred to as “lovers” in Scripture] will carry out his purpose against Babylon.” So, it is likely a reference, once again, to Cyrus on one level. But, as already explained, Cyrus was a forerunner of the ultimate Messiah, Jesus Christ, who will overthrow end-time Babylon at His second coming. And this is the primary reference here. In verse 16, the pronoun changes from Him to “Me”—showing Jesus directly speaking as having been sent by the Father through the Holy Spirit.

As soon as Judas left the room, Jesus said, “The time has come for the Son of Man to enter into his glory, and God will be glorified because of him. And since God receives glory because of the Son, he will give his own glory to the Son, and he will do so at once.” ( John 13:31-32) John has hinted throughout his gospel that Jesus would redefine glory. The word for exalt or glorify actually means to lift up on high. For Jesus, his glory will involve his being lifted up on high on the cross out of love for us and in obedience to the Father. Through his death, burial and resurrection, Jesus will bring the Father glory by fulfilling the Father’s plan to bring us out of our bondage to sin and death.

 

[nayasnana]

Some of my “research” was done a few years back so, wording of my post today may be a little “iffy.” I make every attempt to quote exactly from the Bible when giving my thoughts/opinions. I pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit before posting anything. I do not in any way want to “force” anyone to believe what I post. I share what I have found and what I believe it means to give others the courage and incentive to really dig into God’s word and find truths. Be Blessed

[nayasnana]

Gehenna-Valley of (the sons of) Hinnom ( The abode of condemned souls).
Tartarus (Greek)- the deep abyss of torment and suffering.
Hades-The grave. The place of bodily decay.
Sheol-A place of darkness to which the dead go. (Also known as Hades.)
All are different names for hell but, all describe the same torment and suffering.
**condemnation: to declare to be reprehensible, wrong, or evil usually after weighing evidence and without reservation.
Would a loving God who considers every life precious send His creation into a fiery furnace to burn for evermore?
Is hell literally a fiery place of eternal torment?
MILLIONS of people have been taught by their religions that hell is a place where people are tormented. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, “The Roman Catholic Church teaches that hell . . . will last forever; its suffering will have no end.” This Catholic teaching, the encyclopedia goes on to say, “is still held by many conservative Protestant groups.” Hindus, Buddhists and Muhammadans also teach that hell is a place of torment. No wonder that people who have been taught this often say that if hell is such a bad place they do not want to talk about it. But, talk about it we must.
Did Almighty God create such a place of torment? Look to scripture and see what God’s view was when the Israelites followed the examples of people who lived nearby began to burn their children in fire. God says in Jeremiah 7:31 “And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.”
Think about this. If the idea of roasting people in fire had never come into God’s heart, do you believe that He would create a fiery hell for people who chose not to serve Him. 1 John 4:8 “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.”
Would a loving God really torment people forever? Would you do so? Knowing of God’s love should make us want to turn to scripture to discover what hell is, who goes there and how long will they be there.
(Webster’s Dictionary says that the English word “hell” is equal to the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades.)
The English translators of the Authorized Version, or King James Version, translated Sheol 31 times as “hell,” 31 times as “grave,” and 3 times as “pit.” The Catholic Douay Version translated Sheol 64 times as “hell.” In the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the “New Testament”), the King James Version translated Hades as “hell” each of the 10 times it occurs.—Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.

The question is: What kind of place is Sheol, or Hades? The fact that the King James Version translates the one Hebrew word Sheol three different ways shows that hell, grave and pit mean one and the same thing. And if hell means the common grave of mankind, it could not at the same time mean a place of fiery torture. So, do Sheol and Hades mean the grave or do they mean a place of torture?
Let’s be clear that the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades mean the same thing. This is shown by looking at Psalm 16:10 “For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption” in the Hebrew Scriptures.

In Acts 2:31 “He seeing this before spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption” in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Notice that in quoting from Psalm 16:10 where Sheol occurs, Acts 2:31 uses Hades. Notice, too, that Jesus Christ was in Hades, or hell. Are we to believe that God tormented Christ in a hell of fire? Of course not! Jesus was simply in his grave.

When Jacob was mourning for his beloved son Joseph, who he thought had been killed, he said: “I shall go down mourning to my son into Sheol!” (Genesis 37:35) However, the King James Version here translates Sheol to “grave,” and the Douay Version translates it “hell.” Now, stop for a moment and think. Did Jacob believe that his son Joseph went to a place of torment to spend eternity there, and did he want to go there and meet him? Or, rather, was it that Jacob merely thought that his beloved son was dead and in the grave and that Jacob himself wanted to die?
Yes, good people go to the Bible hell. For example, the good man Job, who was suffering a great deal, prayed to God: “O that in Sheol [grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version] you would conceal me, . . . that you would set a time limit for me and remember me!” (Job 14:13) Now think: If Sheol means a place of fire and torment, would Job wish to go and spend his time there until God remembered him? Clearly, Job wanted to die and go to the grave that his sufferings might end.
In all the places where Sheol occurs in the Bible it is never associated with life, activity or torment. Rather, it is often linked with death and inactivity. For example, think about Ecclesiastes 9:10, which reads: “Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.” (grave, King James Version; hell, Douay Version. So the answer becomes very clear. Sheol and Hades refer not to a place of torment but to the common grave of mankind. (Psalm 139:8) “If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in [a]hell, behold, You are there.” Good people as well as bad people go to the Bible hell.
Can people get out of hell? Consider the case of Jonah. When God had a big fish swallow Jonah to save him from drowning, Jonah prayed from the fish’s belly: “And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.” Jonah 2:2.
What did Jonah mean by “out of the belly of hell?” That fish’s belly was surely not a place of fiery torment. But it could have become Jonah’s grave. In fact, Jesus Christ said regarding himself: “Just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” Matthew 12:40.
Jesus was dead and in his grave for three days. But the Bible reports: “His soul was not left in hell . . . This Jesus hath God raised up.” (Acts 2:31, 32, King James Version) Similarly, by God’s direction Jonah was raised from hell, that is, from what would have been his grave. This happened when the fish vomited him out onto dry land. Yes, people can get out of hell! In fact, the heartwarming promise is that hell (Hades) is to be emptied of all its dead. This can be seen by reading Revelation 20:13, which says: “The sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [Hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”—King James Version.
Yet a lot of people will deny it saying: ‘The Bible does talk about hellfire and the lake of fire. Does this not prove that hell is a place of torment?’ True, some Bible translations, such as the King James Version, speak of “hell fire” and of being “cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched.” (Matthew 5:22; Mark 9:45) All together there are 12 verses in the Christian Greek Scriptures where the King James Version uses “hell” to translate the Greek word Gehenna. Is Gehenna really a place of fiery torment, whereas when Hades is translated “hell” it simply means the grave? Clearly, the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades do mean the grave.
Well, then, what does Gehenna mean? In the Hebrew Scriptures Gehenna is “the valley Hinnom.” Remember, Hinnom was the name of the valley just outside the walls of Jerusalem where the Israelites sacrificed their children in the fire. In time, good King Josiah had this valley made unfit to be used for such a horrible practice. (2 Kings 23:10) It was turned into a huge garbage, or rubbish dump.
So during the time Jesus was on earth Gehenna was Jerusalem’s garbage dump. Fires were kept burning there by the adding of brimstone (sulfur) to burn up the garbage. Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible, Volume 1, explains: “It became the common lay-stall [garbage dump] of the city, where the dead bodies of criminals, and the carcasses of animals, and every other kind of filth was cast.” No live creatures, however, were cast there.
Knowing about their city’s garbage dump, Jerusalem’s inhabitants understood what Jesus meant when he told the wicked religious leaders: “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matthew 23:33) Jesus plainly did not mean that those religious leaders would be tormented. Why, when the Israelites were burning their children alive in that valley, God said that to do such a horrible thing had never come up into his heart! So it was clear that Jesus was using Gehenna as a fitting symbol of complete and everlasting destruction. He meant that those wicked religious leaders were not worthy of a resurrection. Those listening to Jesus could understand that those going to Gehenna, like so much garbage, would be destroyed forever.
What, then, is “the lake of fire” mentioned in the Bible book of Revelation? It has a meaning similar to that of Gehenna. It means not conscious torment but everlasting death, or destruction. Notice how the Bible itself says this at Revelation 20:14: “And death and Hades [hell, King James Version and Douay Version] were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.” Yes, the lake of fire means “second death,” the death from which there is no resurrection. It is evident that this “lake” is a symbol, because death and hell (Hades) are thrown into it. Death and hell cannot literally be burned. But they can, and will, be done away with, or destroyed.
What does it mean that the Devil will be tormented forever in “the lake of fire”? ‘Yet the Bible says that the Devil will be tormented forever in the lake of fire,’ someone may point out. (Revelation 20:10) What does this mean? When Jesus was on earth jailers were at times called “tormentors.” As Jesus said of a certain man in one of his illustrations: “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.” (Matthew 18:34, King James Version) Since those who are thrown into “the lake of fire” go into “second death” from which there is no resurrection, they are, so to speak, jailed forever in death. They remain in death as though in the custody of jailers for all eternity.
The wicked, of course, are not literally tormented because, as we have seen, when a person is dead he is completely out of existence. He is not conscious of anything.

My opinion is, wouldn’t be separated from God been enough torment?

[nayasnana]

For the past 45 years, God has been using our own presidents to set the stage for end time prophecies. In 1977 Jimmy Carter was elected president. Carter made a political decision that would begin to set the stage for the end time prophecies. Carter told the Shah of Iran that he was cutting ties between Iran and the United States because of Iran’s human rights record. Ultimately, the Shah was taken down in January of 1979 and the Ayatollah Khamenei came to fill that power base. This is the man who established what is known today as the Islamic Revolution that awakened the Islamic world. Islam had been prevalent throughout the world and there was adherence to the Islamic faith. They were practicing Muslims but, it awoke the potential for what the Islamic world could do when the Ayatollah Khamenei came and set up not only the Islamic Revolution but, the Islamic Republic. A state of Iran would follow the Sharia. The law of the Islamic Quran, their holy book. It would be the beginning of the Islamic activities across the world that would lead us to where we are today. In 1981 addressing a Trade Union meeting, President Reagan was shot by John Hinckly Jr. in an assassination attempt. Reagan survived the assassination attempt and became the most powerful president in history. Many of the international decisions that Reagan would make would affect what was going to happen in the future prophetically. In 1987 Reagan would go to Germany, Berlin and to the Brandenburg Gate. While here, Reagan would utter the famous words heard throughout the world, “Mr.Gorbachov, tear down this wall.” In 1989 that wall would come down but, it was also the break and collapse of the Eastern Bloc countries and the Europeans with arms wide open would welcome these Eastern Bloc countries like Poland, Romania, Hungary and the others to become member states in the European Union. This resulted in the fall of the Soviet Union on December 26, 1991. In 1991 the Soviet Union became The National Federation and Boris Yeltsin was elected president. He chose a man over in St. Petersburg, Russia who was a staff member of the mayor of St. Petersburg, Russia to join his presidential team. (Vice President in the United States.) In 1999 Boris Yeltsin resigned and appointed this man to become president of The Federation. That man is none other than Vladimir Putin. That was the beginning of the leadership of the entire Russian nation which would set the stage for Bible prophecy to be fulfilled under the leadership of the United States. President, Ronald Reagan started it and the domino effect took place until we had a man named Vladimir Putin as the leader of a coalition of nations out of the Middle East.

A Scriptural timeline of End time events:

(The Beginning of Sorrows)
False messiahs,

propaganda campaign

Wars and rumors of wars
Famine.

Death from earthquakes,

pestilence,

natural disasters and
wild beasts
*Matthew 24:4-8
*Mark 13:5-8
*Luke 21:8-11
——————————————————————————–
(1st four seals)
¼ of the population of the earth is killed
*Revelation 6:1-8
One generation
* Luke 21:29-33
——————————————————————————–
(The Rise of the Antichrist)
“Man of sin”
*2 Thessalonians 2:3
“Little horn”
*Daniel 7:7-8
Rise of powerful “king”
*Daniel 7:23-26
*Daniel 8:23-25
“Vile person”
*Daniel 11:21-44
“Beast”
*Revelation 13:1-18
Makes covenant with Israel for
seven years
Temple rebuilt and offerings
reinstated
*Daniel 9:24-27
Reign of “harlot”
*Revelation 17:1-7
*Revelation 17:14-18
False death and resurrection Revelation
*17:8-13
——————————————————————————–
(The Abomination of Desolation)
Gospel is preached throughout the age
*Matthew 24:14
*Mark 13:9-13
*Luke 21:12-19
Two witnesses
*Revelation 11:4-12
*Zechariah 4:12-14
Abomination of desolation set up in middle of 7th week
*Daniel 8:9-14
*Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11
Antichrist displays himself as God
*2 Thessalonians 2:3-5
Great tribulation begins
*Matthew 24:15-26
*Mark 13:14-20
*Luke 21:20-21
Strong delusion
*2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
——————————————————————————–
(The Great Tribulation Mark of the beast)
*Revelation 13:17-18
5th seal
*Revelation 6:9-11
*Luke 19:43-44
1,260 days or 42 months
*Revelation 11:2-3
Day of Jacob’s trouble
*Jeremiah 30:7
*Daniel 12:11
*Habakkuk 3:16
Day of their calamity
*Obadiah 1:13-14
Day of visitation
*Isaiah 10:3-7
Indignation
* Isaiah 10:24-27

————————————————————————————————————–
· (The Beginning of the Day of the Lord)
Great signs
*Acts 2:19-20
Sun and moon darkened, stars fall
*Matthew 24:29
*Mark 13:24-25
*Luke 21:25-26
*Ezekiel 32:7-8
Powers of heaven are shaken
*Joel 2:10-11, 31
Moon turned to blood
*Isaiah 13:9-13
6th seal
Earthquake
*Revelation 6:12-16
144,000 sealed
*Revelation 7:1-8
The day of the Lord begins
*Acts 2:20
——————————————————————————–
(The Vengeance and wrath of God)
Day of wrath
*Romans 1:18
*Isaiah 13:9
*Zephaniah 1:14-15
*Joel 2:1-3
*Amos 5:18-19
Day of vengeance
*Luke 21:22-24
*Isaiah 61:2
7th seal
*Revelation 8:7-9:19
*Revelation 16:1-17:21
Babylon is destroyed
*Revelation 18
——————————————————————————-
(The Day of God Almighty)
Kings of the East
*Revelation 16:12
*Isaiah 49:12
From north country
*Jeremiah 46:10; 50:9
*Jeremiah 51:27-58
Antichrist and his troops
*Daniel 11:45
*Zechariah 12-14
Coalition of Gog and Magog
*Ezekiel 38-39
——————————————————————————–
(The Coming of the Son of Man)
Banner of the Son of Man seen in the clouds
*Matthew 24:27-30
*Revelation 1:7
Coming of Christ on white horse as King of kings
*Revelation 19:11-16
*Jude 14
The harvest of the earth
*Revelation 14:14-16
Carrion birds invited to the “great supper of God,”
winepress of wrath
*Revelation 19:17-18
*Revelation 14:18-20
*Ezekiel 39:17-22
Defeat of Antichrist’s army at Jerusalem
*Zechariah 14:12-15
Beast and false prophet cast into the lake of fire
*Revelation 19:19-21
——————————————————————————-
(The Kingdom Established)
Jesus’ feet land on Mount of Olives and mountain splits in two
*Zechariah 14:4
Gathering of the elect
*Matthew 24:31
*Mark 13:27-37
*Luke 17:25-36
*Deuteronomy 30:3-5
*Ezekiel 34:12-13
*Isaiah 27:12-13
144,000 with Christ on Moun Zion
*Revelation 14:1-5
Satan is bound
*Revelation 20:1-3
Judgment of the Gentiles
*Joel 3:1-2, 14
*Matthew 25:31-46
Resurrection of the Just
*Revelation 20:4
*Isaiah 26:19
*Ezekiel 37:1-14
*Joel 2:28-29
Marriage Supper of the Lamb
*Revelation 19:7
*John 14:1-3
*Revelation 21:9-12
——————————————————————————-
(The Millennial Reign of Christ )
Changes in the Land
*Daniel 2:44-45
*Micah 4:1-7
*Jeremiah 3:17
*Isaiah 35:5-10
*Isaiah 65:19-25
*Ezekiel 39:8-16
*Zechariah 14:16-19
*Psalm 2:8-9
Holy Oblation and the New Temple
*Ezekiel 40-48
*Isaiah 56:7
*Isaiah 4:2-6
——————————————————————————–
(The Telos)
Satan loosed and deceives the nations
*Revelation 20:7-8
Fire from God consumes the enemies
*Revelation 20:9
*Devil cast into the lake of fire Revelation 20:10
*Ezekiel 28:17-19
Resurrection of the unjust Great white throne judgment
*Revelation 20:11-13
*2 Peter 2:9
Death and grave and all judged as wicked cast in lake of fire
*Revelation 20:14-15
*1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Heavens and earth dissolved, the end of the day of the Lord
*2 Peter 3:10-12
New heavens and earth
*2 Peter 3:13
*Revelation 21:1-5
*Isaiah 65:17

Following Christ’s example, Paul warned the Colossians not to accept traditions as replacements for the commandments of God: “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ” (Colossians 2:8; compare Mark 7:8-13).

 

[nayasnana]

I am always amazed at those who believe at all cost that a trinity is scriptural. Even when you show proof that Jesus and God were claimed to be one decades before the Holy Spirit was added to the trinity.

[nayasnana]

Gotcha. I understood you to be saying that Jesus was God. And you’re correct, He is of the same nature and essence but, Jesus is the Son of God. Two different persons. Be blessed

[nayasnana]

He (Jesus) is the “word” (God’s messenger.) I know Christ was with God from the beginning and I am researching this now. In the Scriptures, the meaning of the term “beginning” depends on the context. Here the Greek word ar·kheʹ cannot refer to “the beginning” of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2) It must, therefore, refer to the time when God began creating. God’s first creation was termed the Word, a heavenly designation of the one who became Jesus. (Joh 1:14-17) So Jesus is the only one who can rightly be called “the firstborn of all creation.” (Col 1:15) He was “the beginning of the creation by God” (Re 3:14), so he existed before other spirit creatures and the physical universe were created. In fact, by means of Jesus, “all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth.”​—(Col 1:16); The very contrast with the prophets (who in the lower sense were amongst God’s sons) would be sufficient to prove this, but the words which follow, and the whole contents of this chapter, are designed to show the supreme dignity of Him who is God’s latest Representative on earth. The prophet’s commission extended no farther than the special message of his words and life; “a Son” spoke with His Father’s authority, with complete knowledge of His will and purpose. It is impossible to read these first lines (in which the whole argument of the Epistle is enfolded) without recalling the prologue of the fourth Gospel. The name “Word” is not mentioned here, and the highest level of John’s teaching is not reached; but the idea which “the Word” expresses, and the thought of the Only Begotten as declaring and interpreting the Father (John 1:18; also John 14:10; John 14:24) are present throughout.

In ( Colossians 1:15) no man hath seen God corporeally with the eyes of his body, though intellectually with the eyes of the understanding, when enlightened. Not in his essence and nature, which is infinite and incomprehensible, but in Jesus’ works of creation, providence, and grace; in and through Christ, in whom He gives the light of the knowledge of the glory of His person and perfections; But the Father is said to be invisible, because He did not appear to Old Testament saints and His voice was never heard, so His shape was never seen; He never assumed any visible form; but whenever any voice was heard, or shape seen, it was the Son of God that appeared, who is here said to be his “image”, and that, as he is the Son of God; in which sense he is the natural, essential, and eternal image of his Father, the eternal one. He (Jesus) is perfect and complete. It includes sameness of nature and perfections but separate “entities.”

In (Revelation 3:14) Laodicea was the last and worst of the seven churches of Asia. Here our Lord Jesus styles himself, The Amen;(so be it) one steady and unchangeable in all his purposes and promises. Christ expects men should be in earnest. How many professors of gospel doctrine are neither hot nor cold; except they are indifferent in needful matters, and hot and fiery in disputes about things of lesser importance. A severe punishment is threatened. They would give a false opinion of Christianity, as if it were an unholy religion while others would conclude it could give no real satisfaction, otherwise its professors would not have been heartless in it, or so ready to seek pleasure or happiness from the world. One cause of this indifference and inconsistency in religion is, self-conceit and self-delusion. What a difference between what they thought of themselves and what Christ thought of them. How careful should we be not to cheat our owns souls! The faithful and true witness, Jesus Christ.  He is a witness for God and His truth, and Jesus can approve of nothing which the God of truth would not approve. He is arrayed in a vesture dipped in his own blood, by which he purchased his power as Mediator; and in the blood of his enemies, over whom he always prevails. His name is The Word of God; a name none fully knows but himself; only this we know, that this Word was God “manifest” (not incarnated) in the flesh; but his perfections cannot be fully understood by any creature. Although an incarnation is a type of manifestation, there is, however, a significant difference that exists between the two that must be understood. Many things can be considered the manifestation of something or someone. We are the manifestation of Christ, who was the manifestation of God. We who follow Christ are likewise the manifestation of God yet we are not the complete “physical substance” of God literally but rather God is made known  (manifest) through us.

BTW ( I love a challenge)

 

 

 

[nayasnana]

The first thing I want to note is, (2 Peter 1:20) “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.”
A triple deity (sometimes referred to as threefold, tripled, triplicate, tripartite, triune or triadic, or as a trinity) is three deities that are worshipped as one. Such deities are common throughout world mythology; the number three has a long history of mythical associations.

The Doctrine of the Trinity did not exist until 325 A.D. The Old Testament is the original Hebrew Bible, the sacred scriptures of the Jewish faith, written at different times between about 1200 and 165 BC. The New Testament books were written by Christians in the first century AD.
“It is an unquestionable historical fact that the doctrine of the Trinity is a false doctrine foisted into
the Church during the third and fourth centuries; which finally triumphed by the aid of persecuting emperors.
For many years, there had been much opposition on Biblical grounds to the developing idea that Jesus was God.
To try to solve the dispute, Roman emperor Constantine summoned all bishops to Nicaea. . . .
Constantine’s role was crucial. After two months of furious religious debate, this pagan politician intervened and decided in favor of those who said that Jesus was God. Jesus’ establishment as ‘the Son of God’ was officially proposed
and voted on by the Council of Nicaea. . . . [It was] a relatively close vote at that. . . . By officially endorsing Jesus as God, Constantine turned Jesus into a deity who existed beyond the scope of the human world, an entity whose power was unchallengeable.
After Nicaea, debates on the subject continued for decades.
Those who believed that Jesus was not equal to God even came back into favor for a time. But later Emperor Theodosius decided against them. He established the creed of the Council of Nicaea as the standard for his realm and convened the Council of Constantinople in 381 C.E. to clarify the formula. This council agreed to place the holy spirit on the same level as God and Christ. For the first time, Christendom’s Trinity began to come into focus. The historical record shows that, just as Jesus and the New Testament writers foretold, various heretical ideas and teachers rose up from within the early Church and infiltrated it from without. Christ Himself warned His followers: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many” (Matthew 24:4-5) By the second century, faithful members of the Church, Christ’s “little flock” (Luke 12:32), had largely been scattered by waves of deadly persecution. They held firmly to the biblical truth about Jesus Christ and God the Father, though they were persecuted by the Roman authorities as well as those who professed Christianity but were in reality teaching “another Jesus” and a “different gospel” (2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6-9). This was the setting in which the doctrine of the Trinity emerged. In those early decades after Jesus Christ’s ministry, death and resurrection, and spanning the next few centuries, various ideas sprang up as to His exact nature. But why do so many follow after the belief of the Trinity? The answer is simple. They do not check it for themselves with what the Bible teaches. Consider Jesus Christ’s words:
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39
So it is to the Bible we must turn, and when we do, we do not find any evidence to suggest that God is made up of three beings. Be Blessed

 

[nayasnana]

flesh: Or “a human being.” The Greek word “sarx” is here used in the sense of a physical being, a living being with flesh. When Jesus was born as a human, he was no longer a spirit. He did not merely assume a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past. (Ge 18:1-3; 19:1; Jos 5:13-15) Therefore, Jesus could rightly call himself “the Son of man.”​—(Joh 1:51; 3:14;)

The Word became flesh:(He “became” not “incarnated.”)  Jesus was entirely human from his birth until his death. Jesus explained the purpose of his becoming flesh when he said: “The bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (Joh 6:51) In addition, only because Jesus was wholly human could he experience what humans of flesh and blood experience and thus become a sympathetic High Priest. (Heb 4:15) Jesus could not have been human and divine at the same time; the Scriptures say that he “was made a little lower than angels.” (Heb 2:9; Ps 8:4, 5;)

However, not all agreed that Jesus had come in the flesh. For example, the Gnostics, who believed that knowledge (Greek, gnoʹsis) could be gained in a mystical way, combined Greek philosophy and Oriental mysticism with apostate Christian teachings. They held that all physical matter is evil. For that reason, they taught that Jesus did not come in the flesh but only seemed to have a human body. An early form of Gnosticism was apparently prevalent at the end of the first century C.E., so John may be making a specific point when he writes that “the Word became flesh.” In his letters, John warns against the false teaching that Jesus did not come “in the flesh.”​(1Jo 4:2, 3; 2Jo 7.)

At (Colossians 2:9) the apostle Paul says that in Christ “all the fullness of the divine quality [form of the·oʹtes] dwells bodily.” Here, again, some translations read “Godhead” or “deity,” which Trinitarians interpret to mean that God personally dwells in Christ. (KJ, NE, RS, NAB) However, Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon defines the·oʹtes in basically the same way it does thei·oʹtes, as meaning “divinity, divine nature.” (P. 792) The Syriac Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate render this word as “divinity.” Thus, here too, there is a solid basis for rendering the·oʹtes as referring to quality, not personality.

A consideration of the context of Colossians 2:9 clearly shows that having “divinity,” or “divine nature,” does not make Christ the same as God the Almighty. In the preceding chapter, Paul says: “God saw good for all fullness to dwell in him.” (Col 1:19) Thus, all fullness dwells in Christ because it “pleased the Father” (KJ, Dy), because it was “by God’s own choice.” (NE) So the fullness of “divinity” that dwells in Christ is his as a result of a decision made by the Father. Further showing that having such “fullness” does not make Christ the same person as Almighty God is the fact that Paul later speaks of Christ as being “seated at the right hand of God.”​—Col 3:1.

Considering the immediate context of Colossians 2:9, it is noted that in verse 8, Christians are warned against being misled by those who advocate philosophy and human tradition. They are also told that “carefully concealed in [Christ] are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge,” and they are urged to “go on walking in union with him, rooted and being built up in him and being stabilized in the faith.” (Col 2:3, 6, 7) In addition, verses 13 to 15 explain that they are made alive through faith, being released from the Law covenant. Paul’s argument, therefore, is that Christians do not need the Law (which was removed by means of Christ) or human philosophy and tradition. They have all they need, a precious “fullness,” in Christ.​—Col 2:10-12.

Finally, at 2 Peter 1:3, 4 the apostle shows that by virtue of “the precious and very grand promises” extended to faithful anointed Christians, they “may become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world through lust.” Elsewhere in the Scriptures, Christians are referred to as ‘sharing’ with Christ in his sufferings, in a death like his, and in a resurrection like his to immortality as spirit creatures, becoming joint heirs with him in the heavenly Kingdom. (1Co 15:50-54; Php 3:10, 11; 1Pe 5:1; 2Pe 1:2-4; Re 20:6) Thus it is evident that the sharing of Christians in “divine nature” is a sharing with Christ in his glory. Be blessed

 

[nayasnana]

I’m new on this forum so, let me explain my reason for joining this forum. After being misled for 40 of my 60 years on a trinity, I began a search. I asked my pastor a simple question and he couldn’t answer it. The question was on the “rapture.” For the past 10 years I have been researching and reading everything I can get my hands on regarding the trinity and the rapture among other things. Here are a few things I have found.

1. Concerning (John 1:1) ” In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
2. With all the definitions and ways logos can be translated, how can we decide which meaning of logos to choose for any one verse?  The Greek word logos (traditionally meaning word, thought, principle, or speech) has been used among both philosophers and theologians. How can it be determined what the logos in John 1:1 is? Any occurrence of logos has to be carefully studied in its context in order to get the proper meaning. The logos in John 1:1 cannot be Jesus. Please notice that “Jesus Christ” is not a lexical definition of logos.  (lexical definition relating to the words or vocabulary of a language.) This verse does not say, “In the beginning was Jesus.” “The Word” is not synonymous with Jesus, or even “the Messiah.” The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God’s creative self-expression—His reason, purposes and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God’s self-expression, or communication, of Himself.This has come to pass through His creation (Rom. 1:19 and 20), and especially the heavens (Ps. 19). It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture, the written Word. Most notably and finally, it has come into being through His Son (Heb. 1:1 and 2).

   It is important to note that it was “Christian teachers” who attached the idea of a “divine person” to the word logos. It is certainly true that when the word logos came to be understood as being Jesus Christ, the understanding of John 1:1 was altered substantially.

3. It is important at this point to understand that the Greek language has a definite article (‘the’), but does not have an indefinite article (‘a’ or ‘an’). Greek does not operate in the same way as English does in regard to the use of the words ‘the’ and ‘a’.
   Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that ‘since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being God’, the fact that the word ‘God’ is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature. However, since it does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Word was not the same ‘person’ as the Father God, but has the same ‘essence’ and ‘nature’.

   It is also necessary to see this statement in context of the rest of John’s writings. When comparing this with other statements about who the person and nature of Jesus Christ really is, it adds to what is already made clear by the Greek grammar. See for instance: John 8:56-59 (cf. Exo. 3:13-14); 10:28-33; 14:6-11; 1 John 5:20; (also John 8:23; 3:12-13; 5:17-18). These verses also indicate that, in John’s understanding and thus the Bible’s clear statements, Jesus Christ is the same essence and nature as God the Father, but distinct in their person-hood.

4. Consider the following:
   • GOD has NEVER died and cannot die
     (Ps 148:6, Hab 1:12).
   • Jesus HAS died and WAS resurrected by his God
     (Acts 2:32; 3:15).
   • GOD has NEVER changed (Mal 3:6)
   • Jesus DID change FORM: from spirit
     (John 3:31)
   • to human (Luke 2:7; John 1:14)

     to spirit (1 Peter 3:18).

     But has NEVER changed in how he loves and serves his God (John 5:30).

   • GOD has NO other identity, He IS the Sovereign of the Universe (Isa 42:8 plus He states “I am God” another 163 times in the bible)
   • Jesus did have other identities: before he came to earth, he is NOT mentioned “by the name Jesus”.
     He WAS a “prince”
     (Isaiah 9:6, 7),

     then a “crowned prince, named heir”, then a “King” (Re 11:15; 16:14-16)
     of his God’s Kingdom BUT he always was the “Son OF God” (John 3:16).

     He has a beginning as first of all creation

     (Col 1:15; Rev 3:14).
     Later, he has a beginning as a human
     (Matt 1:1, 18-23).
     Later, he has a beginning as the first directly resurrected from death by his God
     (Acts 3:15, 13:30, Ro 10:9).
     Later he has a beginning as the first granted immortality by his God
     (Ro 6:9, Rev 1:17,18).
     God is God Almighty
     Jesus Christ is the Beloved Son OF God Almighty.

   • GOD has no mother, no beginning
     (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3)
   • Jesus has a human mother (Luke 2:7).
   • God is all wise, but Jesus grew in wisdom.
     (Luke 2:52)
     “And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.”
     (Hebrews 5:8 and 9)
     (8) “Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered”
     (9) “and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.”
   • God has limitless knowledge, but Jesus had limited knowledge.
     (Mark 13:32)
     “But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
   • God is, and always has been, perfect, but Jesus needed to attain perfection through his suffering.

     (Hebrews 2:10)
     “In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.”

   • Jesus received Holy Spirit at his baptism. If Jesus were God and the Holy Spirit were God, then God would have been anointed with God by God. What purpose would this have served? We know why people are anointed, but what power could God give to Himself? Jesus was given the gift of Holy Spirit, the same gift he now gives to believers today.

     (Mark 1:9-11)
     (9) “At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.”
     (10) “As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.”
     (11) “And a voice came from heaven: “You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

   • Scripture says that God is spirit; yet even after his resurrection Jesus said of himself that he was not a spirit, but flesh and bone.

     (John 4:23)
     “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

     (Luke 24:39) (KJV)
     “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

   • The Bible says that God is not a man, but Jesus is very plainly called a man many times in Scripture.

     (Numbers 23:19)
     “God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind….”

     (John 8:39 and 40)
     (39) “…If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did.”
     (40) “As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God…”

   • (Matthew 12:30-32:) “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, any sin and blasphemy can be forgiven. But blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. ( If all three are one, why can blasphemy be forgiven of all EXCEPT the Holy Spirit?)
   • God’s blessings to all and thank you for allowing me to join your forum.

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