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[mikeboll64]

To whom it may concern, the following are Biblical FACTS…

1. The word “earth” (erets) in the Bible ALWAYS refers ONLY to dry land. And the EARTH was created on Day 3, when God said, “Let dry land appear…”  There was no earth until that day.

2. Heaven didn’t exist until Day 2. There didn’t exist any such thing as heaven until that day.

3.  Heaven is one thing, and the stars that fill it are another thing. And the stars were not created until Day 4.  There did not exist any such thing as the sun, the moon, or the stars until that day.

4.  There is only ONE raqia. The sun, moon and stars are IN it, and there are waters ABOVE it – and therefore above the sun, moon, and stars that are IN it.

5. God-inspired Biblical facts don’t care about feelings, intellectual shortcomings, or personal worldview preferences.

The world IS as God and His inspired writers told us it is. End of story.

[mikeboll64]

I’m curious as to what this site will be like if Pretender bans me for using the Bible to expose his lies and cowardice.  According to the past few months, if I’m gone, a typical day here will consist of…

1.  Berean posts an inspirational daily devotion.

2.  I Saw It On TV will spit some poison at Berean about SDA.

3.  Pretender will join in with some disrespectful juvenile tripe like, “Yeah Gene, SDA people sure are stupid, aren’t they?” 

And that’s it!  That’s what virtually every day will look like here.  🤣

And what if Berean decides it’s not worth it anymore to post some spiritually inspiring stuff each day when he knows there will only be two knuckleheads reading it and immediately pissing all over him?

Then what?  Will Pretender and I Saw It On TV take turns posting nonsensical memes on my thread, patting each other on the back as they do for the “superior intellect” it took them to copy and paste some drivel that they don’t even understand?  😅

Yeah… Pretender can prove himself a coward by banning the guy who’s been kicking his butt with scriptures for the past year if he wants to.  I’m never talking to him again anyway.  Jodi and I have already agreed to finish our discussion via email – which is no different since we’re the only two people reading it here anyway.

So Gene, you know the old saying, “Be careful what you wish for?”   You’ve pushed to have me banned, and when it happens this entire site will end up being just you and Pretender blowing smoke up each other’s asses.

And all for what, Gene?  Because you were too much of a scared little girl to simply have a reasonable, HONEST, and respectable discussion about BIBLICAL things like the raqia?

Great job, buddy. 😎

[mikeboll64]

Gene: A GRYO SCOPE DOES NOT SET THE HIGHTS OF ANY THING…

 

Mike:  I never said it did.  So now tell us what a gyro DOES do on an airplane.

(Hint:  Does it let the pilot know when he is flying LEVEL?)

 

Gene:  Mike…..NO IT DOSENT., THE ALTIMETER DOES…

Gene, take a look at who wrote this answer.  Commercial airline pilot, right?

 

Gene, please tell us what that gyro-controlled instrument called the Attitude Indicator actually DOES for the pilot.

(Hint:  Does it let the pilot know when he is flying LEVEL?)

[mikeboll64]

Mike: Based on the Jews’ response to Jesus’ claim, is it clear that the Jews thought Jesus was implying that he was old enough to have known Abraham personally? Yes or No, please?

 

Jodi:  Yes, that’s a no brainer Mike!

And is it grammatically and contextually possible that this IS what Jesus was telling them?

Jodi:  Jesus tells these same Jews in John 8, “my word hath no place in you” and “why do ye not understand my speech?

Agreed.  Jesus’ listeners often didn’t understand the full or spiritual MEANING of his words (“eat of my flesh and drink of my blood”, “you must be born again”), but they always understood WHAT he said.  It’s not like he was speaking to them in a foreign language or something.

And there are also dozens of times recorded in scripture where the Jews understood exactly what Jesus was saying.  (Matt 22:15-45, Luke 20:39, Mark 12:28-34, etc)  In fact, many MORE times when they DID understand him than when they didn’t fully grasp the entire meaning.  (After all, how could he have taught anyone a dang thing if nobody could ever understand WHAT he was teaching them?)

So you’ve agreed that the Jews did indeed understand WHAT Jesus was saying in 8:56-58.  And your only argument is that they didn’t understand what he MEANT by those words he said.  And that argument is based on the fact that there were other times in scripture where the Jews didn’t fully understand what Jesus meant.

Jodi, how do you know that 8:56-58 is one of the times when the Jews didn’t understand the meaning of Jesus’ words, instead of one of the times they did?  What support do you offer for this assertion of yours?

Thanks.

[mikeboll64]

Jodi, Prov 8 ad Micah 5 are very clear.  There is also a Proverb (Do you know God’s name – and the name of His son?) that might apply.  There is also Psalm 2:7 – depending on interpretation of WHEN those words were first said to Jesus.

I think I remember that there are one or two more, but I can’t think of them right now.

Anyway, since the only one we’ve talked about so far is Micah 5, let me ask a straight question…

Jodi: The definition of origin includes ancestry, it does not solely represent birth.

I gave you straight from the dictionary showing that origin is in fact defined as ancestry.

Jodi, did every single human who lived during Micah’s lifetime, and every single human who has ever lived since him, also have “origins in the distant past”?  Yes or No, please?

[mikeboll64]

Jodi:  I read it as, I am he

and thus “I am (he)” means…

I am Christ, specifically concerning him as the anointed man who fulfills Isaiah 46, who brings forth the day of the end that was declared from the beginning, where Before Abraham was, Jesus is he.

1.   And do you think that anyone listening to him that day would have gotten all of this from the words “I am”?

2.  Please provide the scriptural support for your claim that God declared a man who would fulfill Isaiah 46 anywhere in the Bible BEFORE Abraham was born.  (Who did God declare it to?  In which scripture can I read about this pre-Abrahamic declaration?)   Thanks.

[mikeboll64]

Danny: Hi Mike,

Before I finally go, (this time it’s really final),
I want to thank you for all your efforts in this thread.
It’s a shame that Pretender wants to silence you.
This guy simply can’t stand the truth. Period.
He calls me a dishonest low IQ person but he is the one who believes
in this foolishness:

Anyway, God bless you and your loved ones.

Your Brother in Christ Jesus, Danny.

Thanks Danny!

In Pretender’s warped mind, a person thinking for themselves about some very silly and irrational things we’ve grown up believing simply because they were told to us is a low IQ person… while a person who is able to Google: “A flat earther said this… How do I answer him?” and then copy and paste an answer that he can’t even come close to understanding – let alone verifying – is a high IQ person. 😵🤣

But I’m done with him too.  I didn’t have anything to do with him for two years because of his dishonesty, and only engaged with him again when he began to flat out LIE about the Bible.

Of course, he was too much of a coward to actually DISCUSS these Biblical matters like an honest man (just like when I walked away from his nonsense 2 years ago), and it seems clear to me that he will never change.

I will never speak to him again.

I pray that God bring you and yours blessing after blessing, brother.  Take care.

[mikeboll64]

Gene: A GRYO SCOPE DOES NOT SET THE HIGHTS OF ANY THING…

I never said it did.  So now tell us what a gyro DOES do on an airplane. (Hint:  Does it let the pilot know when he is flying LEVEL?)

[mikeboll64]

Jodi, the owner of this site has been hinting for a while that he is going to ban me.

I will continue on with your posts that came after the ones I addressed today as soon as I can… IF I’m not banned.

If I am, please contact me at [email protected] so we can carry on with our discussion.

Cheers.

 

[mikeboll64]

Jodi:  Verse 58, Jesus speaks in the context of his last words, even before Abraham was, YHVH had declared the man who would execute YHVH’s day, bringing forth righteousness and salvation in Zion for Israel YHVH’s glory, Jesus is declaring, I am (he). He is the man of Isaiah 46 to which we are directly told by YHVH that this man who is to execute YHVH’s will of bringing forth salvation was declared from the beginning.

This is what you believe the definition of I am/I existed is…

Before Abraham came into existence…  Yahweh had declared a man who would execute His day, Isaiah spoke of this man, and I am that man.

Who could have ever gotten all that from the phrase “I am”?

Also, you should really either show through scripture that God made such a declaration to anyone before Abraham even existed, or stop claiming that it happened.

You claim:  “even before Abraham was, YHVH had declared the man who would execute YHVH’s day”

Show me.  When did YHVH make this declaration?  To whom?  In which scripture can I read about this declaration that God made before Abraham was even born?

Jodi:  This also aligns with what Jesus had been teaching prior in chapter 8, those that believe in him will have the light of life, that it is he who will set men free.

Keep reading…

John 8…  24For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

25“Who are You?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied.

See?  There is no mystery or secret convoluted meaning of the phrase “I am”/”I am he”, Jodi.

In this case, the meaning is:  Unless you believe that I am THE ONE I’VE BEEN TELLING YOU ALL ALONG THAT I AM, you will die in your sins.

Jesus actually explicitly spelled out what he meant by “I am he”, right?

[mikeboll64]

Jodi: I have given you this passage before,

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning…

Mal 4:1-2  For behold, the day is coming…

Zech 9:9 Behold, your king is coming to you…

Yes, you have given them all before… but they have no bearing on any disagreement we’ve had.  They are all written by people who lived LONG after Abraham died – and so have no bearing on your opinion that God gave Abraham a prophecy about a future king and Abraham rejoiced over that prophecy.

Besides, you’ve since acknowledged that there is no such scripture, and so the choices are now narrowed down to God either showed Jesus something that isn’t recorded in scripture (like you now believe), or Jesus actually did know Abraham (like I and his listeners at the time understood him as saying).

As to which one is right – context tells us.  Because along with their assumption that Jesus was saying he had known Abraham was the accusation that he wasn’t even 50 years old.  Jesus’ direct response to their direct question was that he existed before Abraham even came into existence.

[mikeboll64]

Jodi: Hi Mike,

Thanks for sticking with me and I see you have given many replies, thanks for all your time given to those!

Hi Jodi.  Same to you.  The problem now is that we’re writing novels back and forth to each other.  Addressing one novel is a time-consuming task.  Addressing 6 or 7 of them at a time is daunting to say the least.

So I’m going to stop with the novels now.  I’ll pick the main gist out of each post and directly respond to that point in a post of its own.  If there are unrelated points, I’ll address them in separate posts.

First up…

Jodi:  Jesus was declaring things about himself and the Jews at times did not understand him to the point they misinterpreted what he said altogether…  his reply is not responding to what they misinterpreted, but rather he is ignoring what they said and is speaking more to what he himself last spoke.

I hear and understand your argument.  I disagree that the argument is supported by any scripture.  For example, you presented the following from John 8 as support…

Jodi:  21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. 22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Did Jesus say that he was going to kill himself? No, but that is what they spoke as to what they were thinking he meant. Did Jesus give a reply to their words of “will he kill himself”? No, his reply was according to his last words that were very profound that they did not understand and that they misinterpreted.

First of all, the Jews said this amongst themselves.  They did not directly ASK Jesus the question, as is made clear from the pronouns “he” and “himself”.  Those indicate people talking amongst themselves ABOUT another person – not people who are directly asking that person a question, ie: “Do you mean that you’re going to kill yourself?”

There many other times in scripture where the listeners were asking questions about Jesus’ teaching amongst themselves, but Jesus knew what they were thinking.  Here’s one example…

Matthew 9… 3On seeing this, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming!” 4But Jesus knew what they were thinking and so he said, “Why do you harbor evil in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk?’

In each case, “Jesus knew what they were thinking” is followed by “and so he said to them…”

In the passage you offered, it is not clear if Jesus knew what they were thinking.  It IS, however, clear that they were not asking Jesus a direct question, and so him not directly answering their question is understandable since they didn’t ask him one.

But even without answering their question, his continued teaching made clear to anyone with the question of him killing himself that he was talking about having been – and going back to a place where they could not go.

Can you find an example where the Jews actually did directly ask Jesus a question, and instead of answering them he just ignored them and continued on with his teaching as if the question was never asked?

Because then we’d have a better example with which to compare John 8:56-58.

[mikeboll64]

Pretender:  I want to cut all ties with him for sure and need to think of the best way to deal with this timewaster.

What is it with you and Gene and your incessant accusations that I’m wasting somebody’s time? Do you guys REALLY believe that me posting anything on any thread REQUIRES you to read it, let alone spend time responding to it?

People are simply having a discussion.  If you’re not interested in this discussion, then don’t even click on this thread anymore.  Nobody is forcing you to spend even one second of your time here, are they?

Look at all the completely BIZARRE things Carmel has been posting here for years.  Are you REQUIRED to either respond to all of his posts or ban him?

What about the nonsense Gene has been posting about preexistence and free will for more than a decade here?  Are you, Pretender, REQUIRED to either respond to all of those posts or ban him?

I had a nice little thread about the “Many Gods of the Bible” that served its purpose spectacularly.  Were you REQUIRED to respond to my posts in that thread, Pretender?  Because you didn’t, right?

How about the nice little chat I’ve got going with Jodi about preexistence right now?  Or my ongoing discussion with Kathi about her “Yahweh Unity” doctrine?  Are either of you REQUIRED to even read those threads – let alone spend any of your time responding to any of the posts therein?

Of course not.  So then what is it about this thread that REQUIRES both of you to read or spend time responding to even a single post here?

That’s an honest question for which I’d love an honest answer from both of you.  (Remember that any answer you give must logically also apply to those other people and those other threads – otherwise you’re a hypocrite.)

I look forward to an explanation from each of you as to how one single thread on this entire site is the only one that REQUIRES you to “waste your time”.  Thanks.

(Btw Pretender, I DID cut ties with you completely for 2 years after this thread exposed you as the deceiver and prideful idiot that you are 4 years ago.  Remember?  Now if only I could reveal the SECRET of how I did that.  Oh that’s right, I just ignored you for 2 years and didn’t respond to a single thing you said.  So I don’t really think it should take an intelligent man lot of time to figure out how he could “cut all ties with a timewaster” on a forum.  Just do what I did to you if that’s what you really want.

Of course that’s NOT what you really want, is it?  You don’t want to cut ties with me.  You want me SILENCED altogether so I can no longer expose you as the fool you are, and your unbiblical worldview as the lie it is, right?

I think God would appreciate you being HONEST about what it is you really want.)

[mikeboll64]

Gene:  Proclaimer…….I also believe in free speech,  but i also believe in acountability  of what a persons says  and also  holding him or her responsible for what they says .  You can’t aford to let this site be the source of such stupidy, that it eventually effects the whole site in a negitive way brother

 

Pretender: Mike, all your arguments have been debunked.

So I think it is time to end this.

If somebody came to MY site spouting a bunch of unscriptural and untrue crap, I’d just put that sucker in his place.  I’d hit him with Scripture A… BAM!   Then a right across the jaw with Scripture B… WHAP!  And then a good old one-two jab in the nose with Scriptures C and D… KNOCKOUT!

I would make it all out in the open and abundantly clear that anyone coming to spout nonsense on MY site better damn sure be prepared to stand and defend that nonsense, or get knocked out so hard that even newbies to the thread who aren’t even really interested in the subject matter would be calling that sucker a loser, a deceiver, a coward, etc.

Of course this is YOUR site, not mine.  So you are free to continue on with your plan of…

1.  Run and hide like a cowardly scared little girl.

2.  Call lots of names when you can’t offer a valid rebuttal to the other guy.

3.  Make up a bunch of completely illogical crap off the top of your head that nobody in their right mind would accept as rational.

4.  Continually change the name of the thread to something you think is somehow insulting to the other guy.

5.  Continually threaten to completely censor or ban the other guy so that he can’t keep demonstrating that he has truth on his side and is completely destroying you.

6.  Post a bunch of copy-and-paste memes that you don’t even understand – and then loudly declare intellectual superiority and victory because you hit “copy” and then “paste”.

Of course, your way will likely end up with the newbies and casual readers who aren’t even interested in the topic calling YOU a loser, a deceiver, a coward, etc.

Oh wait…  🤣😎

[mikeboll64]

Pretender:  Berean, the point is however, that knowledge has increased regardless of that scripture.

Walk me through it…

1.   You say Moses used “raqia” because he knew it meant “expanse”, and therefore he knew all about the heliocentric model.

2.  But then you say the 70 Hebrew Bible scholars who produced the LXX thousands of years later MISTAKENLY used the Greek word “stereoma” that refers to a solid object, because they were ignorant of the heliocentric model and thought the earth was flat.

3.  And then you say that the phrase in Daniel applies to scientific knowledge about our world.

So did scientific knowledge INCREASE between “heliocentric Daniel” and the “flat earther LXX scholars”?

Are you able to consider – just for a second – that “raqia” DOES INDEED refer to a solid structure, and that’s exactly WHY the 70 Hebrew LXX scholars translated it with a Greek word that ALSO refers to a solid structure?

Or will you stick with your “Moses and Daniel were smart, but then the LXX scholars became stupid as knowledge INCREASED” argument?  🤔

[mikeboll64]

Berean: Dan.12
[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

…and knowledge shall be increased. 
Me

Should still SEE in what CONTEXT Daniel wrote these lyrics….
certainly not regarding scientific knowledge BUT RATHER “BIBLE PROPHECY KNOWLEDGE”….AND THAT IS A WHOLE ANOTHER STORY.

Yes Berean, it is abundantly clear that it is spiritual and scriptural knowledge that will increase.  It’s not talking about some day being able to see a plant cell under a microscope.

Pretender:  I see. So the earth is still flat Berean?

 

Gene:  Berean……Seems every time you open your mouth , you prove how actually nieve and ignorant you truly are.

What is wrong with you guys?  You used a scripture out of context to make a (false) case that the Bible foretold that we’d learn more about science in the future.  Berean then CORRECTED you by explaining that the scripture you were MISUSING didn’t have anything to do with science.

And then, instead of addressing what Berean was actually TEACHING you, both of you knuckleheads just skim over it and go right into personal attacks against Berean himself.  Who does that?

I’ll tell you who… people who can’t stand and defend their arguments in a valid and righteous manner, and so they have no recourse but to attack the messenger.

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”  –  Socrates

It’d be nice to see you guys at least TRY to address Berean’s actual point.  Make your own case for why the scripture he quoted IS about scientific knowledge.  Try to gird up your loins like a man and defend yourselves for once instead of immediately resorting to calling people names – thereby showing everyone that you CAN’T defend yourselves!

In short, you two should try behaving like MEN for a while.  We’ve all already seen more than enough of your scared little mean-girl behavior.

That being said… let’s talk about verse 3 of the passage Berean quoted…

[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

What exactly does that angel mean when he says the wise will shine as the brightness of the firmament, and that those who lead others to righteousness will shine as the brightness of the stars?

Sounds to me like the firmament itself is bright, and the stars are even brighter.  Does the angel mean that the wise will shine as bright as “the space between the sea and the clouds”?  And why do you think the angel (who obviously knows the shape of our physical world) would say “THE raqia” – as if there is only ONE of them?

What are your thoughts on the matter, guys?  Do you have any to offer? Or will you just ignore me and immediately resort to name calling as usual?

[mikeboll64]

Pretender:  Let me remind you that on the flat earth model, it is impossible for the earth to cast a shadow on the moon.

 

I don’t believe the patterns on the moon are a shadow at all.  But hey… what happened to the curve of your ball earth in the top middle and top right images?  😁😂🤣

[mikeboll64]

Danny: Yes, I just wanted to remind you that you already lost this debate.
And I wanted to tell Mike that I’m praying for him.

Goodbye, Pretender.

Thanks Danny!  It’s good to see that the much more accurate name I gave this clown is sticking. 😂

[mikeboll64]

Pretender:  Radar is limited by the curve of the earth
Did you know: Because radar signals travel in straight lines, the distance from which a ships radar can detect another ship or boat is limited due to the curvature of the earth. Simple deduction tells you that the Earth is round.

The part I bolded and underlined is 100% true.  Unfortunately for you, there are dozens of examples all throughout history where the radar signals travel hundreds of miles farther than they could if we lived on a ball.

Would you like to see some examples and discuss the subject?  Or would that be something only a real truth seeker would be interested in doing?

Let me know.

[mikeboll64]

Pretender: 8K view of our star
Spherical and no evidence of uppity and downity.

So why can’t the earth be a sphere too just as the other planets are.

Can you reason?

Lol. Join the dots.

Do you SERIOUSLY believe those artists’ illustrations are actual photographs?  SERIOUSLY?

Can you reason?  Lol.  Join the dots.

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