Quote (Mr. Steve @ Mar. 18 2008,08:01)Martian:John and Paul both taught that all thing were made by him (Christ) and for him.  This is no mystery.  He is above all. Jesus himself said he was going back to the Father from where he was sent.  Pre-existence is abundant in the gospel of John.  Read what Jesus says.  Jesus never cites his earthly birt…[Read more]

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Mar. 18 2008,08:01)Martian:John and Paul both taught that all thing were made by him (Christ) and for him.  This is no mystery.  He is above all. Jesus himself said he was going back to the Father from where he was sent.  Pre-existence is abundant in the gospel of John.  Read what Jesus says.  Jesus never cites his earthly birt…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 17 2008,11:54)Dear Martian,I would like that cup of coffee expecially if it ended in agreement Meanwhile, I will look up that Hebrew site.Thanks!Lightenup,The Hebrew site is rather large. I might suggest these pages to get started.. http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/27_home.htmlhttp://www.ancient-hebrew.org/12_home.html

lightenupAs Earth shattering as your coming out of the Trinity doctrine was for you so was the impact I received when I began to really dig into Hebrew culture and language. If you truely have a hunger for that subject, I might suggest The Ancient Hebrew Research Center. The web site can be found by googling that title. Many of the truths and…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 17 2008,08:53)Hello Martian,Ya know, I'm sorry, I've obviously upset you.  Please forgive me.I have my convictions, you have yours.  We have to do our best with what we are given.  By the way, I am interested in the history of cultures, in fact I have spent some time recently with a Rabbi to do just that.  He is a Mes…[Read more]

Let me try once more to illustrate my point about understanding Hebrew culture and language. I would appreciate it if those who read this would take it as a whole and not try to pick out single lines to debate. This post is long enough without me having to qualify every single phrase. I have posted some of this before, but I do not think some read…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2008,06:36)Hi Martian,The Spirit never seems to be given credit by you. This may be an oversight on your behalf. But we are dependant on the Spirit.The Spirit of God leads me by way of experiancial understanding. I can only understand intelectually after I have understood spiritually in my heart. Of course all of this…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2008,06:08)Hi Martian,So knowledge and reason form the basis of your understanding. Do you not know the Spirit of God?Stop the nonsense posts and stop making comment just to keep the discussion alive.Your comment is insulting and deserves no real response.

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 16 2008,17:17)Hi Martian,You have asked, “Christ pre-existed and that teaching produces what?”My answer:Believing that Christ pre-existed as the Son of God has been the biggest eye opener of my spiritual life.  It has changed my life and I am so much more interested in studying scripture and doing God's will than I was…[Read more]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 15 2008,11:03)Martian Truth is Truth and when Scripture so plainly leads me to that truth how can I deny that? Hebrew is very nicely explained by Steven.  And Col 1:15-18 explains all and so does Rev. 3:14 You cannot explain that away. Proverbs 8:22-30 why is all so hard for you to understand, I don't get it.…[Read more]

Quote (Mr. Steve @ Mar. 15 2008,09:04)To all;Hebrews 1 is filled with God from God, Light from Light.  The scripture is clear he is distinct from the angels being “made” so much better than the angels, as he hath by “inheritance” obtained a more excellent name than they.   “Thou art my Son, this “day” have I begotten thee.”  Begotten on a ce…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 15 2008,09:55)Hi martain, So truth is only truthful if you find it useful?Does logic rule God?What are you on this Earth for? Are you here to acquire head knowledge or are you on here to complete the plan God has for your life? Are you here to attempt to mentally ascend to heaven or are you here to have your character and…[Read more]

The truth is, that like the Trinity and the Dual nature of Christ, the teaching of a pre-existent Christ is nothing more then an abstract mental picture without purpose or function. It serves no one and produces no fruit. It’s only reason for existence is to give some false philosophy to attempt to understand scripture. In order to believe it o…[Read more]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Mar. 15 2008,06:06)Quote (martian @ Mar. 15 2008,04:09)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 13 2008,10:11)Martian wrote:John 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.What was with God before the world was?   The glory for Jesus.  We also have glory set a…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 15 2008,02:02)Dear Martian,I looked at the greek and I think that Heb 1:8-10 is well translated in the NASB.  But thanks anyway.Before explaining this Hebrews 1, one must understand a little of how the Hebrews thought. This is particularly important when considering that this book is written to Hebrews. This book was…[Read more]

Enough computer game for today. Might be back later.

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 13 2008,10:11)Martian wrote:John 17:5″ And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.What was with God before the world was?   The glory for Jesus.  We also have glory set aside for us, that does not mean that we were there before the world was.And Gene w…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 13 2008,09:57)Dear Gene and Martian,Gene wrote:martian……..this is right on, these people who come up with the preexistence doctrines don't have a single verse that absolute says by Jesus or anyone else that Jesus preexisted. Jesus only existed in the plan and Will of God before he was born.My response:Heb 1:8-108 But of…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,11:27)Hi Nick,I am a mere woman, correct.  I am a mere woman without a past existence and history before conception  Jesus was a man but He was a man with a past existence and history.  That is not the same, in fact, BIG, difference.  However, He was born without memory of His past.Do you just make this up as you…[Read more]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 12 2008,15:58)Hi Nick,You asked:Did his origins have any impact on his nature, his mission or his ministry?If they did we cannot follow him. My response:I do not know whether they did or not but I don't think that I would put Jesus in the “box” that one's limited understandings want to put Him in.  He is who He is.  We c…[Read more]