Gene,Are you assuming because God manipulates us to accomplish his loving purpose for us that our choices are not freely made. Scripture teaches us that God manipulates us by testing our hearts which means we are free to choose good or evil. He has foreknowledge about what we will chose and he uses that and his power in order that our free…[Read more]

Gene,What is your opinion about my last post?

Ed J.The only real difference is the King James Version states “for thou hast magnified “thy word” above all thy name” and the Protestant’s New International Version states “for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.”I interpreted the NIV’s clause to be consistent with scripture while the King James Version variation seems…[Read more]

To all,Using the definitions for “will” at dictionary.com I believe that Jesus is speaking of purpose.  I also believe that purpose is driven by a combination of the desires of the soul and spirit influenced by physical and environmental factors such as culture, perceived abilities, obstacles to the choice, etc. Romans 7:22-23 is the basis of…[Read more]

To all,What is the bibles definition of “will”?Jesus chose to submit his will to God's will. Did that action come from his will or God's?

To all,I read the Protestant flavor of the New International Version of scripture which words Psalm 138:2 differently.  Below is its choice of wording.Psalm 138:2(NIV) reads:Quote I will bow down toward your holy temple       and will praise your name       for your love and your faithfulness,       for you have exalted above all things       you…[Read more]

Pierre,You are correct that Satan caused me to see the word “predestination” instead of thee word predetermination” which you actually wrote. Please forgive my error.I agree that God did not influence Adam but Satan did and God permitted Satan to do so. On the other he sent an angel to influence Adam to do right.You are correct that scrip…[Read more]

Pierre,I believe your definition of word “predestination” is in error.  Jesus was predestined to be the Messiah before the creation of the world as God knows all things and is all powerful.  This in no way contradicts the idea that each person chooses what they do according to the desires of their own hearts.In chess a master can plan many moves…[Read more]

Gene,Are you arguing that some people are slaves to sin and so suffer the compulsion to sin as they are bound to their unclean spirit? With alcoholics and other addicts obviously suffering from just such a compulsion to sin; I cannot see anyone disagreeing.Under compulsion or not an addict still chooses to sin. On the other hand Jesus frees his…[Read more]

Pierre,If you look at the ideas Gene is expressing then you will see that he is stating that Jesus is making a voluntary choice to reject submitting to his own will and instead submit to God’s. I expressed the same idea in my last post to Mike Boll by speaking of choosing to follow the temptation to sin vs. the temptation to do right. It is t…[Read more]

To all,All of creation is under the wrath of God and so currently it is in pain. The pain it suffers is not for nothing as it brings those that sincerely desire to be righteous as God is righteous to him. Scripture tells us that Jesus too went through great pain for us. It is those true believers who are becoming aliens to this creation that is…[Read more]

Mark Boll,My opinion is that if you are already human like you cannot be made in that same likeness in the same way. If you are marred you can be remade into human likeness and if your spirit is unlike a human's it can be made into one bearing a human likeness. That is the most directly I can answer your question while covering all the bases I…[Read more]

Mike Boll,You are getting ahead of me. I do not believe God creates our thoughts. I do believe he, being both all knowing all powerful, knows in advance what thoughts we will have and either allows them or not. I also believe Satan introduces evil thoughts in our head to tempt us and God allows him to do so in order to test our hearts. We…[Read more]

To all,Did God create our will?Why do you believe he did or did not?

Pierre,What Gene writes is hard to understand. In the case of his post you just wrote he seems to be equating free will to rebellious will. Thus Jesus prayed that He would summit himself, i.e. his rebellious will, and do what God willed instead.Where do you disagree with that understanding?

Mike Boll, I already voiced opinion that you cannot be the image of what you already are but this is what scripture states.About the physical likeness scripture states:Genesis 5:3(NIV) reads:Quote When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him SethRomans 8:3(NIV) reads:Quote For what the law was…[Read more]

Mike Boll,I would say a cat was made in the form of a cat in their mother’s reproduction system and exists in that likeness until after death. The same is true of a human being. Philippians 2:7-8 does not contradict this as no age of growth is mentioned for Jesus being “made in human likeness” and “being found in appearance as a man”.

To all,I hope you choose to follow the last three posts in the conversation between Mike Boll and me. Please feel free to add to the conversation. Thank you.

Mike Boll,To go on. Since we agree that our words and actions are influenced by our own wills then I see no real disagreement up to that point. I also think we are in agreement that our wills can be swayed by internal and external factors.The question is “did God create our wills”?I believe that since he created all things that he did. Gene…[Read more]

Mike Boll,That is not the point Philippians 2:7 makes.