Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,06:52)Quote (jb2u @ Aug. 02 2013,07:54)Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,13:05)Quote (jb2u @ July 14 2013,12:14)…..God foreknew the future sacrifice of the obedient CHOSEN one out of the people, Jesus………..What sacrifice, jb?On the cross!! Atoning for our sins.So Jesus was born a mere human being who was…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,06:43)Quote (jb2u @ Aug. 02 2013,07:57)Well, Jesus is God's firstborn. He is the first BEGOTTEN of God. It does not say “first created” or “first made.”And what about Revelation 3:14, where Jesus refers to himself as the “beginning of the creation by God”?He is the beginning of the new creation (2 Cor. 5:17).Jesus…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,06:41)5.  I believe that in John 6, Jesus made it abundantly clear that he came down from heaven, and that some of those standing there would later see him ascend to “where I was before” – meaning “to heaven”.  Then some of those standing there DID actually see him ascend to “where he was before” – fulfilling his o…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,06:15)Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,13:02)Both bolded words are “ek” in Greek.  They mean “out of” or “from”.  Surely you don't deny that by “from the earth”, Paul means that the first man ORIGINATED from the earth, right?  He came FROM dust, right?So why then would you deny that the second man ORIGINATED fr…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,06:10)Quote (jb2u @ Aug. 02 2013,07:47)Jesus clearly did come “from heaven” as He tells us that He “came OUT OF” God. I believe this!! Jesus said it and it is true.Jesus said, I came DOWN FROM heaven, jb.Surely saying he came DOWN FROM heaven is not the same as saying he is metaphorically “of heaven”, or “of God” -…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,05:44)Quote (jb2u @ Aug. 02 2013,07:39)It could mean that He was better but now He is “more better”, but that just doesn't sound right to me.Perhaps how it “sounds” to you is peppered by your own conception that Jesus started his existence as a human being.  If I accepted that as an absolute truth, then Jesus…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,05:27)Quote (jb2u @ Aug. 02 2013,07:14)I think you see a chronological chain of events, but I do not see it as a chain of events.Are you serious, jb?Are you saying that these things all happened simultaneously?1.  Was existing in the form of God.2.  Did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, and s…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 03 2013,00:07)But even then, God created you right and did he do that through anyone, or were you created out of the dirt directly?See even you were created through your parents and yet you have to reconcile that with your understanding of God creating you alone.And your creation was not even an obscure scripture that can be…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ July 15 2013,19:48)Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,16:02)How does understanding the clear words, I came down from heaven, as meaning Jesus literally came DOWN FROM heaven, like he said, constitute a failure on my part to “seek the true meaning in scripture”?  If my Lord clearly, and without mincing words, says that he came down from…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ July 15 2013,18:26)Quote (jb2u @ July 15 2013,07:45)If Adam was the first and Jesus was the last Adam, then WHO CAME FIRST?Don't expect an answer here, just my 2 cents worth.Adam means 'man', so yes he is the second Man in that respect. But we believe that he existed in the form of God first, and then came in the flesh. The idea of him…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,13:05)Quote (jb2u @ July 14 2013,12:14)…..God foreknew the future sacrifice of the obedient CHOSEN one out of the people, Jesus………..What sacrifice, jb?On the cross!! Atoning for our sins.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,13:02)I suspect that since you don't want Jesus to have literally come down from heaven, you have convinced yourself that the manna didn't necessarily have to literally come down from heaven either…………. and in that way you had a “supporting scripture” or something.I think that is a little unfair to say that…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,13:02)Quote (jb2u @ July 14 2013,12:37)I disagree. Verse 47 does not tell us of the “origins of the second Adam.” It tells us what he was made into!! Are we reading the same verse?  1 Corinthians 15:47 NET The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven.Both bolded words are “ek” in…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,12:24)Quote (jb2u @ July 14 2013,11:45)What Heb 1:4 says is that Jesus was MADE superior to the angels by God.Hebrews 1:4 NETThus he became so far better than the angels as he has inherited a name superior to theirs.You are ignoring the fact that it doesn't say he became better, but that he became SO MUCH BETTER.…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,11:31)Quote (jb2u @ July 14 2013,10:54)To answer your question..how a human being could be made in the likeness of a human being? Well, I am human and God made me in the likeness of a human. Right?But were YOU existing in the form of God BEFORE you were made in the likeness of a human being?You seem to be purposely…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,11:10)Quote (jb2u @ July 14 2013,10:43)I agree with your concept; however, I believe that when God says that He spoke and it was..I believe that is HOW it happened.I also agree with that.  But consider:Hebrews 11 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but…[Read more]

Ephesians 4:6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.Now, I ask, how can there be one God and Father of all if you believe that Jesus is God, too?

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,04:43)I just saw that you are still working on these posts.  I will refrain from addressing your recent posts until you are done.Thank you. There was a lot to catch back up on, especially between this thread and the one with Kathi.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2013,04:40)I agree that verse 45 doesn't speak of Jesus' ORIGINS as a spirit being.  (It's good to know that you are not one of those who believe Jesus remains a human being in heaven.)  But verse 47 clearly distinguishes the ORIGINS of the first man (from the dust of the earth) from the ORIGINS of the second man (…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ July 09 2013,09:39)Quote (jb2u @ July 08 2013,03:27)The word “Di” does mean “through” BUT..it ALSO means..”on account of” “because of” “for the sake of”Colossians 1:16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created…[Read more]