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[eco]

to the dearest of all the t8s i know (of course your the only one i do know, my try at a little humor),

All that i am saying is that you and ramblinrose (sp.?) and Ambassador of Christ have stated your arguments for both for and against the trinity docterine very nicely. And that after spending many nights trying to read through all the arguments and look up scripture and cross references and what not, i have even barely made a dent in all that is posted on this one forum issue. So, i think that each person should make "closing" arguments and then let the discussion stand for its self. There is enough information on both sides for an intelligent person to pray, ponder, and come to a conclussion on. So herray for you and Amb. of Christ for the great amount of reaserch and studying but, now is the time to move on to what ever you 2 are doing to advance the kingdom besides this debate.

My conclusion on this debate: (this has nothing to do with my last post) The very basics of my thought is that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all seperate, yet in some way they are connected through the God the Father (weather it be Jesus as some sort of/ or part of God incarnate thus coming from God the father (begotten) but not wholey God the father, or as in the Holy Spirit as God’s spirit in us). Thus they are all part of God the Father or have apart of him (just as a offspring has some of the parental genetic code in them). Now to debate and to go into detail as to the correlation and the exact form of the relationship that is in place is a waste of time and effort do to the facts that we are humans and or brains cannot grasp the type of relationship that they have, and the Bible does not tell us out right what it is. The scriptures tell us just enough for us to know that there is some devine relationship between the three, so that we could set our faith in this relationship.

Now about your referance to how you feel that you must "shine the Light and the truth" about the trinity and denominations. i am all for you spreading the news about how denominations are man made and that we should hold no binds to them, but rather to God, but to say some one else is wrong about what they think about some trivial fact between God and Jesus and that they are condemded to be judged with babylon is just as bad as the trinitarians forcing the idea of the trinity on people. this is something that WE WON"T UNDERSTAND, and it does not effect our salvation through Jesus Christ. I like to compare it to communnion or baptism, 2 things that have been splitting up the body of Christ of centuries, yet has no real dramatic effect on our salvation, so each should fallow what he or she feels the spirit is leading them to as long as it does not distract for or fearing of the the Lord and fallowing his commandments. (now im not saying this is like saying o-people can go out and do every crazy thing they like as long as they believe Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior, no this is not the case at all. but on minor points that we don’t fully understand or comprehend, i think we should leave to be answered when we die.) I agree with you (t8) when you say that the trinity should not be used as a bases of salvation, and that it is is kind of sad. But i think the rinity is a easy way for people to put a lable on the unexplainable, such as Yawhey (sp.?) was used by the jews to discribe this all mighty and powerful God, yet the trem Yawhey is just a lable for something that they/we can not understand fully. I also do not wish to have unity with the compromise of truth, but the TRUTH of the matter is there are scriptures that help to discribe the relationship between God and Jesus, yet there is no exact answer, (now i know your are saying yes, but it does give an exact answer, because it says that jesus is the Son and God is the Father, and my reply is that it is like another parable or comparison, because how does God have a son, does that mean he has a wife, or is he mearly an asexual repoductive almighty God thing) because or minds can not comprehend this unearthly relationship.

Some final thoughts. Babylon: i have no clue, and its a prophetic message, so like most prohpisies, only people who have been enlighted by God, could really tell what it means, such as the book of Revelations is the topic of much controversy and discussion, but the may point of Revelations is to point out the glory and splendor of Jesus and to what we as believers are going to inhaerit (sp.?). This will probably be my last post because i feel i too am being drawen nto this vortex of a circular discussion for which there is no end in site, but i will still read what is posted because i have found many great scriptures through out the debate and even though i know that i am advocating a stop to this discussion i feel it will go unheaded. thank you for baering with my spelling errors and poor writing style, i look forward to talking with all of you in haeven some day.

Sincerely, Yours in Christ,
ECO

[eco]

Hello to all,
I accidently stumbled upon this discussion while searching about how to truelly fear God in this age of "feel good religous focus".  I have read some of the posts for the last few days (the first five pages about and then the last 3 pages about).

To my point for posting this though.  I have prayed and thought about this discussion since i started reading it. I have a couple of pages of notes and questions that i have made during my reading, but i do not feel that God is leading me to talk about those, but to ask to what purpose does this discussion matter.  

Both sides of the debate have some very valid arguments. Yet in the end is it not all meaningless.  Am I wrong in thinking that we all believe that Jesus came from heaven and died on the crossand on the third day rose again and that he was the Savior that was prophisied about to come and clense the sins of those who believed in him as their Lord and Savior.  We also believe that Jesus has/had/will always have some sort of divinity in corrorlation to and pertaining to God the almighty father.  Now lets be truthfull this whole discussion is based on what might be that correlation, YET is this a fruitful discussion that will lead us to fearing the Lord our God and to making disciples of all nations.  these are the two major things that has been stated for believers in God to do.  And everything else is meaningless, as stated in Ecc. 12:12-14 (NIV) "Of many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEAR GOD and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgement, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil."

Therefore the matter of the fact is that we will never undertand what the answer to the trinity question really is until we die and reach heaven, and even then the Lord may not choose to impart all of his infinite wisdom and understanding to us on this matter. As one of my favorite verses states "Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired and weary, and his understanding no one can fathom." Isaiah 40:28 (NIV)   So the continuation of this discussion is futile.  It neither advances the Kingdom of God here on earth, nor does it bring our God any glory for us to bicker about this any longer.  This is creating even more dissension and fragmentation of the body of Christ then there already was (im refer to another thread on this site to T8 by a man in a church that felt torn between the agreement he signed with a church and his new found belief in the non-trinity camp), and part of your (t8) big thing is that the dinominations have torn apart the body of Christ apart.  and i agree that is is why i feel the need to post this.  We do not have to agree on everything and the interpitation of it all.

In the end the big thing is that we should not veiw eachother as trinitarians (and no t8 I do not think that this is some big huge thing related to the tower of Babylon and the worship of the mother of all gods and what not) or non-trinitarians, but that we focus on the advancement of God’s will on earth with an earnest and God fearing heart full of love, compassion, and hope which is brought about by the Spirit of God (how ever the Spirit of God works into the correlation and relationship of God the father, and Jesus the Savior).

Sincerely, Your fellow brother in Christ,
ECO

P.S. sorry for any misspellings or wrong grammer, or the what not.  I was raised in the American education system, which has some holes in it.

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