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[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

Although Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus, he was Jesus’ legal father. In Jewish culture, legal paternity established family lineage and inheritance rights. He also had a biological descent through Mary, who may also have been a descendant of David. So that is a legal and a possible biological descent.

You may to check again the “legal paternity” concerning tribal lineage; tribal lineage DOES NOT “transfer” and comes from the father (source). Also, please read Num 1:2, 18; the sons are counted with their father’s house (tribe). The mother has NOTHING to do with tribal lineage. Both Matthew and Luke say the father of the Jesus is the “spirit of G-d” and NOT a descendant of David; G-d told David in 2 Samuel 7:12-13 that David’s kingdom would continue on thru his son Solomon forever, nothing about his other son Nathan. This would mean the Messiah would have to come thru Solomon…PERIOD!! There is no question to the meaning of what G-d spoke to David or are you saying G-d broke HIS promise to David?

Either way, the New Testament presents Jesus as fulfilling the prophecy that the Messiah would come from the house of David.

So because it was “presented” by the writers of two books as a fulfillment it is therefore truth?!?! The writer of Matthew “presented” several examples of the Jesus “fulfilling” what was spoken in the Tanakh and when verified proves the writer of Matthew made up these “fulfillments”…I like to call them lies.

If Jesus was a Jew, what house would you place him?

The Jesus was a “Jew”, because his mother was Jewish (read Ezra 9-10); the children born to these men were NOT considered part of Israel because these men married and had children with foreign women. The women were not Jewish and therefore neither were the children. It’s literally written in the book you call the “Word of G-d”; do you accept what G-d said or what man wants you to believe it says?

Concerning the “house” the Jesus belonged to, would be none; the Jesus’ father was the spirit of G-d who isn’t a descendant of David and Solomon (remember Num 1:2, 18 and being numbered with the father’s house). 2 Sam 7:1-17 and 1 Chronicles 17:1–15 is where G-d makes a covenant with David concerning the Messiah and MUST be a biological descendant, not a product of a mortal woman and a god. What the Jesus is, is a demigod. How does one not see this??

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

People have claimed to raise the dead. I saw a demon with my own eyes one time and was able to deliver my brother. The only reason greater works are even possible is because we stand on the shoulders of giants.
Also, much of what future generations have achieved is possible because Jesus is with the Father and he intercedes for us. We perhaps do not understand most of what we do and how it impacts people and the world.
Jesus discipled 12 people and taught many thousands. It is possible that some have discipled more and reached more for example.

It was the Jesus (the miracle worker in John 14:12) who stated those who simply “believed in him” would perform even greater “miracles” than he did. The Jesus saw a need and then did something about it. Yet, our hospital are filled with people, our graveyards are filling up daily, and hurts and pains everywhere; a world in shambles and where are the “believers” in the Jesus making everything right? Do these “believers” not “love” their neighbor enough (will of G-d mentioned previously)? Before one attempts to push this off on the individual in need as not having “enough faith”, that isn’t what the Jesus said; he said those who believed in him would do greater works; so the responsibility falls on the “believer” not the one in need.

You say you have performed a miracle, not to minimize it, but only one; “works” are plural.

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

If you love God and your fellow man, then you will do the will of God because you love and that means God and all that he has made.

If “love” is all I need to do the “will of G-d” then why do I need the Jesus. Why would I need to listen to a word the Jesus spoke? Are the 613 commands given by G-d insufficient? What did the Jesus say that would supersede anything originally spoken by G-d?

Thinking on atonement, G-d said to repent, turn from your wickedness, and HE would remember it no more (Nineveh – G-d forgiving); yet, christianity says I need the Jesus for atonement.

I “need” the Jesus; Prove it!

[DesireTruth]

@Proclaimer,

Isa 7:14 “For this reason the sovereign master himself will give you a confirming sign. Look, this young woman is about to conceive and will give birth to a son. You, young woman, will name him Immanuel.”

Please read the entire chapter of Isaiah 7 and tell me it’s about a coming “messiah.” If by one singular verse you can make the connection to be about a “messiah” (the Jesus), then you have just ignored and thrown out the context of what was written (G-d’s words). Besides the “prophesy” isn’t the “virginity” of the young woman, it’s about the boy rejecting evil and choosing good.

When will people start to verify anything?!?!?! G-d’s truth is there; all you have to do is read it!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Still love bashing the Catholics from one side your mouth and from the other say how much you love them. How can you “love” someone when you continually bash them; you “love” someone by building them up, not continually tear them down. We call that double speak; let your yes be yes, and your no be no – pick a side.

Found something quite interesting concerning a member of CONgress, his name is Raul Ruiz from California, he is a member of the Demoncrat party and a Seventh Day Adventist. I thought SDA’s weren’t suppose to get involved in politics (source). What makes this so juicy is he is affiliated with the Demoncrat party, the party that supports abortions, unlawfulness, higher taxes, favors criminals over victims, criminality over justice, and have rejected G-d. Seems we have an individual who has come against the churches stance of remaining impartial and out of politics.

Still waiting for the passages that state the Catholic faith is suppose to be the religion of the WORLD and not just the United States. You do remember this “One World Faith”, according to “christianity”, encompasses the world and includes ALL nations and faiths united into one and not just the United States.

This would mean the over 2 billion people who follow Islam will also have to convert to this world wide faith…laughable! I guess there will be two religions that don’t succumb to this one world religion. Oh wait, I thought it was only the “christians” who would be superior to all other faiths and remain true to the the Jesus so as not to parish.

All this is going to happen in the next six to seven years according to a growing teaching the Jesus will return by 2032/33. When this date also comes and goes and still no the Jesus, what does the christian do? Additionally, when does this tribulation thing start? According to this rising teaching, the tribulation was to begin last year and last year has come and gone and there was nothing. So I guess we can expect the chaos to begin this year…RIGHT!!

Start reading and studying what G-d said and quit relying on manmade interpretations; verify everything!

[DesireTruth]

@Keith,

So much wrong with what you wrote.

If Eve hadn’t eaten from the “Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil” and have lived forever in perfection, in constant righteousness before G-d, how would they have know how to truly worship G-d? How could they have truly know how to love G-d? Can you truly love someone who provides your every need or grants you your every want?

To remain in this perfect environment and have HIS creation worship with perfection, G-d would have created robots and NOT people. Do you think G-d didn’t know this would happen? I think G-d planned for it to happen and by Adam and Eve eating from the tree they gain, and by proxy all of mankind, the gift of discerning good from evil, and in that moment G-d gave mankind knowledge they didn’t possess prior.

When G-d punishes them, and all three where punished, the serpent was punished and NOT Satan. So it couldn’t have been Satan who deceived Eve; it was the cleverest/craftiest of all creation who did – the serpent…another christian narrative that falls apart when reading with comprehension.

But lovingly God showed his great love by applying justice to the situation and sending his son as a ransom sacrifice to buy back what Adam had lost.

Please provide a passage that says the innocent can take the responsibility of the guilty; because I can provide you many passages where G-d says otherwise. While your searching for that, also provide the passage where G-d says he was sending someone to take on the sins mankind and be a moderator on behalf of them (G-d only spoke in the Tanakh, so it has to be found there and not in the NT).

[DesireTruth]

@Berean

What hilarity in copying and pasting someone else’s words…AGAIN! Do you verify anything?!?!?

First, the TPUSA “All American Half Time Show” was NEVER pushed as being “christian”; that was how others interpreted it.

Second, the “All American Half Time Show” was always promoted as being an alternative to the vial and disgusting show the NFL had scheduled with the degenerate Bad Bunny (who by the way didn’t disappoint. His performance should have triggered an investigation by the FCC for airing the vulgar and sexually explicit “songs”; but you’re more concerned about the alternative event that was family friendly).

Third, to say “the scenes from Turning Point USA’s event reflected less the spirit of revival or deep spiritual conviction and more the atmosphere of high-energy sports entertainment.” That’s because it was “a rock concert-style venue, complete with lasers, flame throwers, and pyrotechnics.” We call that ENTERTAINMENT!!!!

Fourth, “A spirit of counterfeit faith has increasingly taken root in churches, as well as in so-called political-religious events. This was a counter musical event not a “political-religious” event. Do you get upset when a sports figure writes John 3:16 on their face?

Finally, “Loud demonstrations, shouting, theatrical displays, elaborate light shows, dancing, and jumping are often presented as evidence of spiritual revival, but these types of behaviors do not glorify Christ or reflect the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit.” This wasn’t an event promoting a “spriritual revival” or designed to give glory to the Jesus; if someone does, is it wrong?? Have you have ever been outside your religious bubble, what was written perfectly describes the modern church today.

Still waiting to find out if you truly believe in the Jesus or not because the Jesus says in John 14:12; “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” When was the last time you healed someone or raised them from the dead?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

It’s interesting that you haven’t responded yet; apparently there is nothing I am suppose to understand concerning the Revelation 13 passage and how it relates to Sunday only worship. Your lack of response really says, you don’t truly understand why you believe what you believe, you just believe because that’s what your religion said was truth.

What’s more stunning is the fact you reject a core belief of your church and is therefore a lie to you; yet, you are still there. Since they’re lying about the trinity, doesn’t make you wonder what else is being taught that isn’t the truth? Or does this belief not matter; does the church now have a level of acceptable lies?

This is crazy!! I am dumbfounded!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

The day you begin to understand what is written in Revelation 13(11-18), then maybe you will change your mind.

What am I suppose to understand about it? I read nothing about Sunday only worship.

Still waiting for an explanation of the Jesus’ words of coming quickly in chapters 1 and 22 and how it translates to 2000 years later.

Still waiting for an explanation of what temple John was suppose to measure in chapter 11; was it the second temple before it was destroyed or a third temple

 

p.s. You have no comment on rejecting a core belief of your religion???

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Are you denying a core doctrine of your faith?!?! Are you saying you disagree with a strongly held belief of your religion?!? This belief in the trinity is plastered on your faiths website! An entire page is dedicated to justifying the belief in the trinity. They speak of the trinity as being a “winning team”; they use the same verbiage as the Catholic faith when referring to the trinity “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.” This sound exactly like the Catholic church! Bottom line, your faith believes in the trinity and is therefore a “daughter” of the Catholic faith…can’t escape that! If you don’t believe in the trinity and your religion does, why are you still there?

I have never disagreed with your stance of when the Sabbath is; I’ve have countered your claim of “Sunday only worship” and that it will never happen as the entire world would have to enact it and not just the United States, which is the nation you continually point out.

Stop and verify everything!!!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

You are a plethora of contradiction; how can you say it’s only the Catholic faith that is the only religion who wants a “One World Religion that unites them all, that is full of compromise and paganism”? Doesn’t your faith try to win other over to it and if it could “win” the entire world over to it, wouldn’t you find that to be a wonderful thing to happen? Isn’t it the purpose of the church to win those over to its belief system? (Please note: conversions aren’t simply about the belief in the Jesus, but believing what the religions teaches and believes AND you can’t remain in that faith if you believe something different that contradicts the fundamental beliefs of that faith). For example, if I became a member of an Adventist church and a few years later began saying the words of Ellen White were false and started teaching her words were false; would I be allowed to stay? Bottom line, religions are NOT about the belief in the Jesus, but falling in line with what is taught and believed by that particular religious sect.

“The mystery of the Trinity is the central doctrine of the catholic church. Upon it are based all the teachings of the church” [Handbook for todays Catholic Page 1]

This statement is hilarious! You are criticizing the Catholic faith because the trinity is a central belief; YET, according to Adventist.org the belief in the trinity is also a “central doctrine” in your faith. Since the Catholic faith created the trinity belief and your faith also believes it to be truth, wouldn’t that also make you part of the Catholic faith…a daughter if you will??

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Waited three days and you still can’t support what you believe is truth!!

Why do we believe what we believe? The question that almost got me kicked out of the church.

“In the merits of the promised savior”, what does that even mean?!?! The first naturally born children after creation are looking forward to a “promised savior”??? REALLY!!!! What “savior” would they be looking to, it’s the beginning! They only new G-d, and HE talked with them. Can you prove with the Tanakh both Cain and Abel were looking forward to a coming “messiah”?

When are you going to verify what you have been told is the truth? It’s never to late, G-d’s waiting with open arms.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Abel placed his trust in God and in the merits of the promised Savior of the world.

Cain did not place his trust in God and in the merits of the promised Savior.

Give me the passages of these statements. These are the word of your false prophetess and NOT G-d! Did you notice you haven’t explained a thing; you keep giving me weak talking points. Back up what you believe with the Tanakh, not your addendum to the bible.

We’ve already be over Gen 3:15 and you reject the actual words spoken in favor of your Jesus narrative. The serpent was just that, a serpent; not an animal possessed by Satan (that’s hilarious by the way). Why would G-d curse this serpent if it was possessed by Satan? That seems to be an unjust punishment, to bear the guilt of another for something you had no control over. See how the serpent being possessed doesn’t make sense? Man made that up so they could blame Satan.

This serpents curse was to slithering on the ground and eat dust; it would seem it had legs to walk about? G-d said there will be hostilities between the serpent’s and the woman’s offspring; are you a fan of snakes, most people aren’t and when they see them they run or crush them – therefore have their heads crushed by a heel. Since a snake slithers on the ground, where can they strike, but the heel. Pull you Jesus glasses off so you can understand what G-d said, not some interpretation of a mankind.

You then quote the book of Hebrews; a book whose author is unknown and filled with twisting of G-d’s word. A book that should never have made it into the christian canon due to not being able to confirm its veracity.

You really need to start reading and studying the words G-d spoke thru man in the first half of the book called the bible. What do you think caused me to walk away from christianity? What I was being told didn’t align with what G-d wrote in HIS book and I have given example after example of this corruption; yet you still reject G-d in favor of man.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Was it shame or not knowing the information in my previous post that you wouldn’t or couldn’t tell me what is taught by your faith? I can tell you I was NEVER taught this in my 40 years. AND why do I have to go learn your faith to find out anything from it…it seems like one is ashamed of what they believe or are not as strong in their faith to wear it on their sleeves as they think they are.

Anyways, now we get to inject our thoughts, fill in the blanks, and write a story that takes precedence over what was written? In their offering they were looking forward to a “promised Sacrifice” “the Jesus messiah”, WHY??? Why would they be looking forward to the Jesus 4000 years into the future when the offering was to G-d??? That make zero sense.

How do we know Cain didn’t come up with this on his own; we aren’t given any details of why they gave an offering to G-d. Upon further study Cain’s name has a meaning “to create.” After he was cursed, he went out and built a city and did it without the knowledge of building, but with the gift G-d gave him – to create.

A more plausible understanding of this passage (not saying I’m right, but more probable than the story White created) starting in verse one; we have the birth accounts of Cain and Abel, and Eve speaks of Cain with an air of reverence by saying “I have created a man just as the LORD did!” and then it’s only mentioned of Abel’s birth, no fanfare, only that Eve gave birth. From this passage, does Eve show favoritism to Cain? Is there a rivalry between the brothers for their mothers approval as they get older?

Now in verse three there’s an unusual phrase “as time passed”, “process of time”, or “at the end of days” Cain brings an offering to G-d of what he’s grown and he is the first to bring an offering. What does “time passed” mean; all we can do is guess because it doesn’t say, but we do have an idea that it most likely deals with the time Cain is harvesting the fruits of the ground. As gardeners know, one harvests throughout the growing season and since “time” has passed, one can reason this could most likely be at the end of the season. So what kinds of fruit is he bringing for this offering? Once again, as gardeners know, the produce at the end of the season isn’t as good as from the beginning. So one can reason the offering Cain did wasn’t the choicest of fruit.

Then we have Abel’s offering, remember that sibling rivalry mentioned earlier, not to be out done by his brother he finds the best of the best of his flock and offers it up to G-d. Look at the language used to describe each offering, it’s similar in the descriptions of their births – except now it’s flipped. Cain’s offering is given little attention while Abel’s is spoken of highly. We then find out G-d is pleased with Abel’s but not Cain’s, and Cain becomes angry.

In the next paragraph G-d speaks with Cain out of concern as he is angry his offering wasn’t accepted and Abel’s was. G-d then counsels him that by doing right everything will be fine, basically learn from this and let’s try again; however, if you don’t do right, (knowledge of good and evil) “sin” will take control. The next phrase is what christianity rejects, “Sin desires to dominate you, but you must subdue it.” We have power over sin, we have the power to choose what is right or what is NOT right; from the very beginning with the gift of knowing right and wrong, G-d said we have power over what we do – choose right or choose wrong. In the case of Cain, he allowed jealousy to control him and murdered his brother.

It’s like the cartoon with an angel on one should and the devil on the other, each of them telling you what to do; do you listen to the angel or the devil? Bottom line, it’s your choice, you choose because G-d gave you the gift to decern right from wrong. This is why Paul is a liar when he says sin controls you. This is why everyone will held responsible for the sins they commit and the innocent cannot take on your guilt as the christian believes the Jesus will do for them.

If you had a plumbing issue in your home, you would obviously call a plumber; likewise, if you had a roofing problem, you would call a roofer; why does one rely on second hand interpretations to understand scripture and not go to one’s it was given to, the one’s who spend a lifetime studying it. Isn’t the original better than the copy?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Chapter 6—Cain and Abel and Their Offerings

Cain and Abel, the sons of Adam, were very unlike in character. Abel feared God. Cain cherished rebellious feelings and murmured against God because of the curse pronounced upon Adam and because the ground was cursed for his sin. These brothers had been instructed in regard to the provision made for the salvation of the human race. They were required to carry out a system of humble obedience, showing their reverence for God and their faith and dependence upon the promised Redeemer, by slaying the firstlings of the flock and solemnly presenting them with the blood as a burnt offering to God. This sacrifice would lead them to continually keep in mind their sin and the Redeemer to come, who was to be the great sacrifice for man.SR 52.1

Cain brought his offering unto the Lord with murmuring and infidelity in his heart in regard to the promised Sacrifice. He was unwilling to strictly follow the plan of obedience and procure a lamb and offer it with the fruit of the ground. He merely took of the ground and disregarded the requirement of God. God had made known to Adam that without shedding of blood there could be no remission of sin. Cain was not particular to bring even the best of the fruits. Abel advised his brother not to come before the Lord without the blood of sacrifice. Cain, being the eldest, would not listen to his brother. He despised his counsel, and with doubt and murmuring in regard to the necessity of the ceremonial offerings, he presented his offering. But God did not accept it.SR 52.2

Abel brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat, as God had commanded; and in full faith of the Messiah to come, and with humble reverence, he presented the offering. God had respect unto his offering. A light flashes from heaven and consumes the offering of Abel. Cain sees no manifestation that his is accepted. He is angry with the Lord and with his brother. God condescends to send an angel to Cain to converse with him.SR 53.1

The angel inquires of him the reason of his anger, and informs him that if he does well and follows the directions God has given, He will accept him and respect his offering. But if he will not humbly submit to God’s arrangements, and believe and obey Him, He cannot accept his offering. The angel tells Cain that it was no injustice on the part of God, or partiality shown to Abel, but that it was on account of his own sin and disobedience of God’s express command that He could not respect his offering—and if he would do well he would be accepted of God, and his brother should listen to him, and he should take the lead, because he was the eldest.SR 53.2

But even after being thus faithfully instructed, Cain did not repent. Instead of censuring and abhorring himself for his unbelief, he still complains of the injustice and partiality of God. And in his jealousy and hatred he contends with Abel and reproaches him. Abel meekly points out his brother’s error and shows him that the wrong is in himself. But Cain hates his brother from the moment that God manifests to him the tokens of His acceptance. His brother Abel seeks to appease his wrath by contending for the compassion of God in saving the lives of their parents when He might have brought upon them immediate death. He tells Cain that God loves them, or He would not have given His Son, innocent and holy, to suffer the wrath which man, by his disobedience, deserves to suffer.SR 53.3

Ellen G. White

Since you couldn’t explain what you believe, I looked it up. If this is what you believe you need to run!!!! Run as fast and as far as you can away from this religion!!! This is pure nonsense and can’t believe how much was injected into three verses! Read the words written by Moses! Your false goddess comes up with “Abel feared God. Cain cherished rebellious feelings and murmured against God because of the curse pronounced upon Adam and because the ground was cursed for his sin.” Where is that written?!?!?

She then writes “they were required to carry out a system of humble obedience, showing their reverence for God and their faith and dependence upon the promised Redeemer, by slaying the firstlings of the flock and solemnly presenting them with the blood as a burnt offering to God. This sacrifice would lead them to continually keep in mind their sin and the Redeemer to come.” At what point did G-d tell them this?!?

When did G-d instruct either of them concerning an offering, “Cain brought his offering unto the Lord with murmuring and infidelity in his heart in regard to the promised Sacrifice (the Jesus??). He was unwilling to strictly follow the plan of obedience and procure a lamb.” And G-d commanded Abel bring the first of his flock?!?!? WHERE!!!! AND WHEN!!!!

I could continue, but why waste my time; I wasted enough just reading this drivel! This is the foundation of what you believe…made up stories. You need to run from this! These are false teachings and you hold onto it calling it truth!! WOW!!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

It can’t be the same; there was no precedence to give G-d an offering; G-d never established the idea, Cain did and Abel followed his example. This wasn’t a “sin” sacrifice as the word “sin” is first mentioned in verse 7 where G-d tells Cain he has the power and must ruler over it. The only thing that can be established is that it was an offering. So by simple reasoning, Cain’s offering to G-d (the first done) CANNOT mean the same as future “sacrifices”, “offerings”, sure. My confusion comes in by you asking what the meaning and the why of their offering is and then refuse to say; only to now be told it’s the same as the future “sacrifices and offerings” system…NOT!!!!

Since you believe the future sacrificial system is the same as the first offering done, you’re going to have to explain; this was never a concept I was taught in the 40 years I was deceived by christianity.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Are you having an issue with understanding what I wrote or are you NOT reading what I wrote OR did you forget what you asked originally? The question isn’t about “sacrifices and offerings” (church has got a handle of twisting that without any problem); the question is:

What’s the meaning and the why of Cain and Abel’s offering to G-d.

This is YOUR original question!!!

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

WOW!!!!! You won’t or you can’t!

Besides the question isn’t  about “sacrifices and offerings.” The question you posed what was the meaning and the why of the offerings done by Cain and Abel to G-d. And I have no idea “why” they did an offering or the “meaning” behind it! Can’t find an answer to these question doing a search on the internet that doesn’t speak of “sacrifices and offerings” in general and dealing with sin and their offering weren’t about sin. This was NEVER a focus in any church I ever attended! You apparently have been taught something; what were you taught?!?!? EXPLAIN YOURSELF!!! What is the difficulty?!?!

I need to become a lion dentist, it would be easier than trying to get you to explain what you believe.

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Just noticed, you origianlly asked why were these offerings made and what did they mean and then you move on to which one was more acceptable; which is it?

Why were the offerings made?

What did the offerings mean?

Why was one more acceptable than the other?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Why not just answer the question, why dodge and evade by answering a question with a question?

Just answer the question!

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