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[davidH]

Why do certain people in here, always find  something to bring down everyone who thinks/believes different to them, as in they purport to know the truth. Or think they have it 100% together,  NO_ONE does,  for most people it is ‘right’ for now.  Your insistence that you are correct shows you are not.  Knowledge puffs  up. love builds up.

[davidH]

Lets put the idea of Jesus words “I and my father are one” meaning they are same God to rest,  The word ‘one’ means total unity. yes it is possible between human brethren, not often but possible. I have had several instances myself.  So. those words DO NOT claim the trinity.

[davidH]

we all accept that the MAN Jesus stepped in our place to be sin offering once and for all. He refferes to the Father as his God and Father. does it matter if he pre existed , it doesn’t matter to salvation.  There are verses to prove and disprove it.  so, some here don’t need to get so uptight if others don’t believe as thay do, im sure they don’t have it ALL correct anyway.

[davidH]

David l

The big question of the ID of the creator comes down to who or what caused jesus to come into being in the first place, was he just a created foetus that God created the male sperm portion inside Mary?  or, was it impregnation by  the Spirit known as the Son of God , as jesus said himself in Rev 3;14, I am the beginning of the creation of God.” ( Like to see trinitarians get around that verse.) If ypu be;leive the second,  as many not trinitarians do. The  Son of God is god, as we are the same gene as our parents same capabilities mostly. As Jesus showed after he was baptised.  No where in the bible does it show the Holy spirit is worshipped or mentioned as a person,  jesus said “if I don’t go. the Holy Spirit cannot come”.

[davidH]

with the word ‘one’ as posted in the above message,I cannot be you and vice versa. as jesus said that they be one AS WE ARE ONE>  so it must be total absolute unity in thought word and deed

[davidH]

sorry typo. john 17.3

[davidH]

T8

 

in my 33 years of being a bible believing Christian, I have heard the trinity as a mystery that will only be known either when we die or jesus returns.  lol.  Which, flies directly in the face of jesus own prayer to his Father,  John 12, 3.  “That they may know you, the one true God and jesus Christ, whom you have sent”.  This alone should ring alarm bells in peoples minds. The ID of God kept a secret, when the Son says himself that we may know Him and His Father, INTIMATELY. It begs the question does the trintiarian Jesus mean what he prays?

 

[davidH]

one event written of in the gospel accounts was to the jews of great importance. However, many gentiles just read over it. Some it was the work of an angel. Some say the work of God himself. It happened the same time Jesus died. It horrified some jews and quickly replaced.  (hint) Matt 27

[davidH]

Nice to see  discussion!!!,  however egos are showing something severe.  Exploration by either finding scripture to back up an Idea, which has been  thoroughly  tested or a logical idea that conforms to what is known is scripture are valid leaning ideals.  Many things that happened in the first church are gone out of our knowledge, as the truth has been twisted through 2000 yrs it no longer exists in todays minds.

Now I have come across stuff that  works. but is not in the bible. as in what to pray and how to pray and stuff related to God.  It doesn’t mean its of the devil if its just not in the bible.  This can be put to some well loved doctines to. some have been changed to suit the translators bias over the centuries.  It is people who are stuck in their religion that stubbornly refuse the possibility anything new is from God. As people uncover possibly the old or original way things were done.  Especially  if it undermines the old religious hierarchy.

When we vehemently uphold OUR point of view, what are we doing?  A verbal boxing match.  and yes  I have been reading each post here. There a few that are big right hooks (or left hooks if you are a molly duker). Verging on insults. but not going that far.  No one person has it 100% correct.  It is correct for each of us at the present time.  For we know who we pray to and the reason we will be heard. by Father. the rest is semantics.  So, bring the militant tone of our ‘debate’ down a few notches.  If we have the ultimate or correct truth, then as Father said “If you search with all your heart, you will find me” (no  particular version, basic English).   Anyone basically versed in speech and psych can read these posts as clear as a bell.

Wether we believe that jesus was the Son of god from Father to produce the baby of Mary or how ever.  he is the promised sin offering of Father. All else is peripheral. John the Baptist as it says was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb, but did no miracles made no big prophesies. Got up the Pharisees noses as did his cousin. Got his head separated for his troubles.  He is the only OT prophet born having the HS in him.  Look it up by all means, yet did no miraculous deeds just told people of the man to come, just happened to be his cousin.

Now I have said my piece. I will let you go on with your boxing match.

[davidH]

Ed,  I have been looking at the 6  chapters of Johns gospel, jesus last sermon and statements to the disciples.  Amazing how many people just scan over verses that seemingly repeat its self. just to not bother to see if it fits their theology.  I have no need to debate what I believe. as I know what I believe and I have verified it through other verses, lol but others will say those verses mean something else.  So you see, debating is vanity.

it is only logic that the miracle in marys womb created by God, doesn’t matter if it a by the son of god or by the father, if it is a creation by god why not be spirit filled from conception.  Paul said Jesus made himself of no reptutation and HUMBLED HIMSELF as a man.  So he could endure all we do, with out his divinity getting in the way, Then at His baptism, His Father gave His blessing to use his divinity. His divinity was subject to His father.

 

Jesus divinity was seen once by 2 disciples, the true power of this one they called Lord.  Jesus even asked His father that he could be given back the glory he had with the father before the world was as before he came to earth, the same person who died on the cross said that,  is he delusional? someone has it wrong either jesus or a lot of people!!!!

[davidH]

David

 

Without knowing it, many parents play favourites, and their quality emotions go to one or 2  and if its 3 or more the usually younger ones ‘suffer’ for it.  Parenthood is not a game.  God has much to say about it  in OT and NT.  Most if not all people in the gay scene have rejection to some degree.  either of God. of their father. by school piers. They are much at home round female friends. or vice versa for girls.  gay orientation has nothng to do with gene heredity.  It is a leanred response to, basicly the world a child sees itself growing up in and how it perceive the world accepts them. Like me My dad had 2 jobs in England in the 1960s to bring up 3 children.

It just so happened my personality was submissive and sensitive, with other social stimuli, I leaned more to female friends and easily accelpted male intimacy as an adult. I  went through rejection prayer and ministry to my dad and to God for letting me get to that point.

Very few get to this far as I have come.  Yes it is possible only  with support of close friends and mentors. Al relying on the power of prayer in our lives.

This, though has not to do with the OP. can you give an answer to LU , what do you think of same sex marriage?

 

[davidH]

what has all this about animal naturality (new word, lol) have to do with the OP? Why are we likening the animal world with The creation ordained to rule with Christ when he returns?

When a baby is born it is not(as in sexuality) straight nor gay. It is learned through its early childhood upbringing through many  points of seeing and hearing.  There is a growing concern that those that say it is natural and born with it are the ones in position to tell us what we need to know, are hif\ding their own insecurities and incorrectness, That is not giving their children the correct amout od quality time and love, so the finger doesn’t get pointed at them.  There is NO gay gene..

[davidH]

I just saw this thread just now,, lol I heard one reason whay they all fell back, well 2 one more seriouis,  the first one was that Jesus had been eating garlic before they showed up and breathed on them “I.. am the garlic knocked them out. lol.

 

The other one was that the words I AM is so holy on one could say it if they did it was thought they would get hit my lightning.

[davidH]

T8

I took the dictionary meaning and pasted it. !, 2 and 4 would suit what your trying to say. number 4 would suit the image of Jesus that churchianity is serving up today.

Trinitarians say he is co eternal with God the father.  but where do you hear or how much do you hear the supposed other partner venerated as much as jesus?

1.

an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

2.

Bible.

an image of a deity other than God.
the deity itself.

3.

any person or thing regarded with blind admiration, adoration, or devotion:

Madame Curie had been her childhood idol.

4.

a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom.

5.

a figment of the mind; fantasy.

6.

a false conception or notion; fallacy.

[davidH]

I decided to look more closely at John 1:1 -20 . You can read up to and including verse 7 and have no reference to the word having a gender.  You can all debate this passage till the cows come home if you want.  What im looking at is in tradition.

 

Verse 10 is the first t5ime a gender is mentioned, and an identity is given. Verse 14:

<dir><span style=”color: #008080; font-size: medium;”>Joh 1:14</span><span style=”font-size: medium;”> And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. </span>

seals the identity. Now, Trinitarians who believe Jesus is co eternal with the father, have a problem with this verse, or do they blindly over look it just agreeing with the tradition? I know trinity pastors who preach Jesus is the WORD of John 1;1. but heartedly believe the same identity is co eternal with the Father. There comes a grammatical error to.

Father, English dictionary

1Biological male parent of a child. 2.The term is also used for the man who has raised a child, who is not his biological offspring, such as an adopted child. As a parent, the father has a certain legal relationship with the child, which carries defined rights and obligations to the child.

If Jesus or spiritual equivalent was always coeternal  then why does he call God ,Father? see dictionary definition.

The very first words of Johns gospel say “in the beginning”, he states the word became flesh.  Now Jesus him self in resurrected state said he is the beginning and he was the beginning of Gods creation. So who telling half truths? It isn’t Jesus.

</dir>John 17:5. Jesus asks His Father to return to him the glory he had with his Father before he came to this world. He asked his Father. not tell an eual co eternal partner.

 

What gives an erroneous doctrine the power to let these verses go seemingly unnoticed

 

[davidH]

Jesus death and resurrection was to fulfil the OT sin offering. The lamb without blemish offered with the blood drained then burnt. One part of the law that few people know or pass over, no pun intended, is that if anyone had touched the offering other than the high priest the whole thing was null and void.

 

The answer is in the verse, “for I am not yet ascended to the Father”. to present the untouched  sin offering to His Father. For the very same day Thomas put his hand/fingers in Jesus side and palms or wrists.

Which leads to another question, the resurrected body ,that means had then gone from physical to spiritual then back to physical. Then appeared to them in a locked room as physical. The question was asked before

Did the resurrected physical body of Jesus have blood?. Thinking that He went from physical to spiritual and back again.

[davidH]

Miia

Im not sure who said it but wether paul or jhon or the others, “being made like us aswe are, subject to temptations as we are.”

 

However or who ever you believe what jesus was before resurrection. He was human and if you believe it, and divine nature, that divine nature he put behind him/on the back burner, His decision,  until his Father gave it His blessing, but notice straight after his baptism Jesus went into the wilderness to be tempted as we are. with pride, mostly. I believe as Paul says in 2 Philippians Jesus chose to keep his divine nature out of the way of being human, knowing what we as humans suffer and have to do on this world.

 

The voice everyone who was at Jesus baptism was for them to hear that the Father was well pleased and gave his say so for Jesus miraculous ministry to begin.

[davidH]

Just a quick question, an intentional sidelight,

based on an observation,  Did the resurrected Jesus in his fleshly form before finally going to be by His Fathers side, have blood,?  he told Thomas to put his hand in the side and the palms, but no blood was mentioned. and the slain lamb in the OT had to have the blood drained before offering.  Just a thought

[davidH]

Just a quick question, based on an observation,  Did the resurrected Jesus in his fleshly form have blood,?  he told Thomas to put his hand in the side and the palms, but no blood was mentioned. and the slain lamb in the OT had to have the blood drained before offering.  Just a thought

[davidH]

LU

 

Australia is the home of invertor-fertilisation, lesbian cpls get pregnant by this method to have kids with any father presence.

 

Australia’s social security system is far different to any other.  So what you asked, gay cpls get that anyway if proven to be lover/an item. Cpl,  and so on. In other countries I think one of the reasons to try to legalise it is for the benefits of being ‘married’ in most 1st world nations the benfits strongly out weight the negatives.

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