Quote Exo 33:11 And the LORD (Jehovah) spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.David. When you speak face to face with your friends do you use angels? Clearly, Cult Guy, other scriptures in your Bible indicate you have the wrong idea about this. Please go check those scriptures. “face to face” indicates intimacy.…[Read more]

Quote David. When you speak face to face with your friends do you use angels?Um, no, Cult Guy, but YOUR bible very clearly says God did:Check it in these places:ACTS 7:38“This is he that came to be among the congregation in the wilderness with the angel that spoke to him on Mount Si′nai and with our forefathers, and he received living sacred p…[Read more]

Quote As I understand it, the trinitarians were well represented at the nicene council David.So, the group you would associate yourself with is 'trinitarian.'I don't personally care too much who was present at a council that was held together and run by a politician wanting to unite his empire, hundreds of years after the apostasy began. But…[Read more]

Quote I believe the gospel is simple. I believe the message that Jesus brought was easy enough for the disciples to understand (and that says a lot right there – these were not brilliant men like yourself and others here)I too believe the gospel (good news) is simple. I believe those scriptures that speak of Jesus actually mean what they say.…[Read more]

Quote Oh, I see, the great apostasy set in within a generation or two of the biblical era, that's convenient. I still can't believe you or anyone would make such a statement based on what the Bible says.When do you think the apostasy began. Or has it yet?

Quote Oh, I see, the great apostasy set in within a generation or two of the biblical era, that's convenient. I still maintain that the Watchtower have no roots in early christianity, their doctrines are quite unique to those of the early church Fathers and the various ante-nicene religious groups. –Is 1:18.Paul, you forgot to mention which of…[Read more]

Quote Hi Not3,I'm going to be using John 1:1c for my next proof text in the debate. I'll address your question in that post.Blessings Isaiah, 1:18, did you notice that most of the scholars you quoted before dismissed the “a god” translation, not on grammatical grounds, but on grounds of THEIR theology, or how THEY perceive John's theology?Because…[Read more]

Quote I do not believe that Jesus preexisted, and so I am not welcome in the JW club either. Like I've said before, I'm a bit of a spiritual-misfit. Which suits me, really.I'm not really sure what the subject of this thread is supposed to be anymore and I don't think we're following it anyway, so I don't mind asking this off topic question:So,…[Read more]

Quote Hi 94,David cannot agree there is an antichrist because his masters say there is not.As I have said about 18 times in this very thread, there are “many antichrists” as THE BIBLE says. The Bible. sO I do believe there is “an” antichrist, and there are many of these, and there have been for centuries.But people seem to have this wierd idea…[Read more]

Quote I'm not saying let's burn him at the stake, I'm just saying there should be some accountability when you go about condeming children of God.–Not3Not to defend anyone, for most of us are guilty of this, but we all feel very strongly about what we believe.When some people (such as Cult buster for example) seem to be some sort of zombie like…[Read more]

Quote Get real David! The word angel means “messenger”.Cult Guy, So your Bible has “messenger” in these places?Actually, the word angel doesn't mean messenger, as you say. But the word translated “angel” is the exact same word that is translated “messenger.” They are the same word. If one were to say as you do that “angel” means messenger,…[Read more]

Quote f you'll take the time to read my original post on this subject you'll see that I asked you to name an ante-nicene religious group whose theology aligns with that of the Witnesses. Perhaps you've heard of the apostasy. It began before the apostles had even died off. It was fortold by Peter, Paul, Jesus…..I could provide the scriptures if…[Read more]

DEUTERONOMY 4:33“Has any other people heard the voice of God speaking out of the middle of the fire the way you yourself have heard it, and kept on living?”DEUTERONOMY 5:4“Face to face Jehovah spoke with YOU in the mountain out of the middle of the fire.”DEUTERONOMY 5:24-25“Then YOU said, ‘Here Jehovah our God has shown us his glory and his gre…[Read more]

Quote 2 Thes. 2:3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and THAT MAN OF SIN be revealed, THE SON OF PERDITION; Yes, the man of lawlessness or the “son of perdition” is certainly an antichrist, because he is against Christ. But I consider this man of lawlessness to be a class of…[Read more]

Quote So, there is very good evidence to substantiate my assertion that it was the pre-incarnate Yehsua that appeared to men as YHWH in the OT. This would make sense of the verse t8 used for his proof text – 1 John 4:12 – and properly accounts for the contradiction t8 faces which is God not being able to be seen, yet at the same time being s…[Read more]

Quote 5. Exodus 24:9-119Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel;10 and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate…[Read more]

You next go on to mention that Jehovah spoke “face to face” with Moses.? This expression denotes intimate two-way conversation. Moses talked with God’s representative and orally received instruction from Jehovah through him. But Moses did not see Jehovah, since ‘no man can see God and yet live.’ In fact, Jehovah did not personally speak to Moses…[Read more]

Quote 2. Exodus 6:2-32 God spoke further to Moses and said to him, “I am the LORD;3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I did not make myself known to them.”YHWH appeared to Abraham as God Almighty (el shadday). It cannot be said more plainly, YHWH “appeared” to Abraham not in the form of a non…[Read more]

Quote Despite the overt clarity of the text though, t8 would say it’s impossible for YHWH to do the things ascribed to Him in Genesis 18, to this I’ll counter with the rhetorical question YHWH posed to Abraham in the very same chapter I quoted:“Is anything too difficult for the LORD?”It is not T8 that says this, but rather God's word, the Bible r…[Read more]

Quote 1. Genesis 18:1,8,13-14,17-19,20-21,26,331Now the LORD (YHWH) appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 8He took curds and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and placed it before them; and he was standing by them under the tree as they ate. 13And the LORD (YHWH) said to Abraham,…[Read more]