bodhitharta wrote:Quote Treat the animals humanely and then slaughter them for your pleasure, the fact is you accept the idea of “lower Species” murder for your pleasure, so the question is why?Good question.I don't think of other animals as a lower species so much as I think of man as a unique species.  Man, unlike animals, has the unique…[Read more]

bodhitharta,It's a bit silly to use the bible's justifications for evil to convince me that the bible isn't a book about a god that advocates that men behave in evil ways.Quote And assuming you are correct about slavery being evil(I'm not for slavery myself) what makes you think that an evil doesn't produce a good?An evil act can produce good. The…[Read more]

Ed J,Again, your random verses don't address the “how” or the “why”.  They are all fluff and no meat.Quote So you don't believe Jesus can be a substitute for 'your' sin; meaning you should die and not be resurrected because of 'your' sin?If Jesus was my substitute, why was he resurrected?

davidbfun,I don't know what your point is, but this thread was crafted to address a very specific question. If you agree that the whole cross thing had nothing to do with justice, then we have no quarrel.

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 11 2010,10:14)Hi WIT,1John 2:2 And he (יהשוע המשיח) is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.God blessEd J (Joshua 22:34)http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThat verse does not address why Jesus had to be killed, which is pretty central to christian salvation doctrine.  It…[Read more]

bodhitharta wrote:Quote Holy means to be set apart from common use or purpose.So, the president's toilet could be considered holy in a sense?  Perhaps a bomb set aside to dropped on a specific group of women and children could be considered holy as well?You're right.  That definition certainly doesn't imply anything about the “goodness” of the o…[Read more]

bodhitharta wrote:Quote This is why I am saying that your ideas are based upon your arbitrary emotions and not based in any absolute sense of Holiness.Against my better judgment, I am going to ask:What exactly is “holiness”?bodhitharta wrote:Quote God destroyed all the people in Noah's day Did he have the right to?Sure, if you believe that your…[Read more]

Yes, Ed J, I have asked a loaded question.  However, if you feel like the scenario that I presented is incorrect, you should be able to explain how.By the way, if your version of “Bible Truth” differs radically from mainstream christianity when it comes to salvation, then you should probably start off by telling me what you believe.  My scenario i…[Read more]

Ed J,I believe that critical question in my opneing post was this one:Now, for justice to be served, who do you think the town should punish?That's the one that actually addresses the scenario that I laid out.

kerwin wrote:Quote …those immoral but less than grossly unethical actions sometimes snowball to have a great effect.So let me get this straight:You believe that “less than grossly unethical actions” can be classified as evil because of their “snowball” effect, but the institution of slavery, (i.e. where men are reduced to property, like cattle),…[Read more]

bodhitharta wrote:Quote Would you then condone that the person that attacked you spend time in prison as a ward of the state which is a state sanctioned form of slavery? Would you say let the criminal go free?Your mindset really is stuck in the 15th century, isn't it?I don't know if you know this, but there are multiple ways to punish crime in…[Read more]

bodhitharta wrote:Quote You have shown what you would do, not what others would do to you. I have no control over what others will try do to me.  My morals are independent of yours.  While you may be happy to enslave me, I would never try to enslave you.Quote This has nothing to do with my moral framework at all for instance you said you would d…[Read more]

Ed J,Let me spell it out for you:A-N-S-W-E-R T-H-E Q-U-E-S-T-I-O-N-S I-N M-Y F-I-R-ST P-O-S-T !!!!The questions are not very hard and would take you ten seconds to bang out the answers. Once you address them, we can discuss “sin debt” as much as you like.

bodhitharta,Defending one's home from invaders does not involve a choice to enslave the invaders.  It is a matter of killing or repelling the attackers.  Only people involved in the business of taking other people's stuff have to wrestle with the question of what to do with the dispossessed people.  No matter what time period you drop me in, I wo…[Read more]

francis,I appreciate your curiosity about my worldview, but this thread is about slavery in the bible. Could you address the issues that I specifically raised with you about slavery before we change the subject?

kerwin wrote:Quote I have never meant a good person.  I have meant people who seem to behave more ethically than others but all do or have done one form of evil or another even if that evil is trivial seeming.“Evil” and “trivial” do not belong in the same sentence.  In my opinion, evil is the practice of something grossly unethical.  For ex…[Read more]

bodhitharta wrote:Quote so, let me ask you this if some people conquered another group and because of the rivalry decided to KILL them but asked you should we kill these people or put them in servitude what would you do?I would not be in the business of conquering people, (i.e. taking your neighbor's life or property), in the first place.  If I…[Read more]

francis,I don't post enough around here for you to know any better, but I am not an atheist.  I am simply not a “religionist” either.  I very much believe in good and evil, and I see slavery as evil and condemn the bible for advocating it.  How about you?

bodhitharta,I applaud you for at least being consistent.  I will address your sentiment with the following quote:With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.You would have made a great slave owner.

Ed J wrote:Quote Why is my point any less important (to you) that your point?Your point seems to demonstrate that you don't accept God's offer of salvation; is this correct?Your point does not address my direct questions. As I said previously, try answering the questions before changing the subject.