I think that you have a short term memory.  In another thread, you wrote:Quote For me the only reasonable explanation is there is a creator who is eternal. No one made him because he is eternal. Yes that is ludicrous, but I have evidence for this and I don't have a problem having to believe in the ludicrous because ludicrous is the only option on…[Read more]

Ed J,I think we're done here.  Just like with Marty, you and I are going around the same circle.  As far as I am concerned, you have completed evaded my point, but that is your prerogative.

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 18 2010,10:20)Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 18 2010,14:21)Ed J,Let's recap.  According to you:His punishment = crucifixion (i.e. “first death” only)My punishment = “first death” and “second death”Hi WIT,If you repent then you will only face the first death.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgIs that why Jesus only…[Read more]

Ed J,Let's recap.  According to you:His punishment = crucifixion (i.e. “first death” only)My punishment = “first death” and “second death”Now let's review the relevant part of the Sinbad & Goodman story:Let's say that it is well known in this fictitious little town that Goodman is from the realm of the undead, (i.e. he can not really be killed).…[Read more]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 18 2010,02:52)Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 18 2010,06:29)Ed J wrote:Quote Heb.9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:Jesus paying 'your' sin debt removes the Judgment after you die,but “only” if 'you' repent in this life and turn away from further sin! How was Jesus judged?  What was his…[Read more]

Marty,As I warned earlier, I am afraid that we are now having a completely incoherent discussion.  I am asking very specific questions, and you are giving me generic christian doctrine in response.  For example, you write:Quote Because in obeying God even unto death on the cross Jesus defeated he who had the power to cause men to sin and be e…[Read more]

Ed J wrote:Quote Heb.9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:Jesus paying 'your' sin debt removes the Judgment after you die,but “only” if 'you' repent in this life and turn away from further sin! How was Jesus judged?  What was his punishment for my sins?

Marty wrote:Quote God desires to have mercy on all who are in this first state of separation from him, and that is the answer to your question. Then, why did Jesus need to die at all?  If it's simply about mercy then why isn't an individual's repentance enough?(Before you answer, see my next post to Ed J.)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 17 2010,10:12)Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 17 2010,14:36)Ed J and Marty,Until you actually address the following question, I don't think that we can have a coherent discussion:If my punishment for sin is supposed to be death with no resurrection how can my substitute's punishment for my sin be death with a side of resurrection?I…[Read more]

bodhitharta,I don't think that I would use the concept of the “divine spark” being developed or undeveloped, but, in general, yes, that's the idea.

Ed J and Marty,Until you actually address the following question, I don't think that we can have a coherent discussion:If my punishment for sin is supposed to be death with no resurrection how can my substitute's punishment for my sin be death with a side of resurrection?I will gladly resume our discussion when you do address that question.Hint:…[Read more]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 16 2010,20:44)WhatIsTrue,Do you believe that Jesus did get crucified or that he didn't get crucified?I believe he was intended to be murdered and God saved him from the plot as it is written in the Quranto me it simply makes more sense and I did not grow up Muslim or studying the Quran it's just that when I read it, it…[Read more]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 16 2010,03:40)Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 16 2010,05:11)Marty and Shimmer,I appreciate the Sunday school lesson, but you both completely failed to address the scenario that I laid out in my opening post.  I contend that the metaphor that I have crafted accurately represents the Christian gospel.  Do you disagree with it?  If so…[Read more]

Ed J,I am growing impatient with you.  Either you are not bright enough to grasp the point I am making, or you are purposely evading it (as bodhitharta has suggested.)  Either way, I am only going to dance this jig with you one more time if you insist on being obtuse.Quote Because Jesus did pay your sin debt,you will be therefore resurrected!Let m…[Read more]

Yes, to your first question, and no, to your second question.

bodhitharta,To answer your question, yes.I specifically addressed the cow thing in my previous post.  I don't see cows as having a “divine spark”.  However, if someone wishes to (non-violently) convince me otherwise, they are free to try.

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 15 2010,10:40)Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 14 2010,06:52)Ed J,Again, your random verses don't address the “how” or the “why”.  They are all fluff and no meat.Quote So you don't believe Jesus can be a substitute for 'your' sin; meaning you should die and not be resurrected because of 'your' sin?If Jesus was my substitute, why was he…[Read more]

Marty and Shimmer,I appreciate the Sunday school lesson, but you both completely failed to address the scenario that I laid out in my opening post. I contend that the metaphor that I have crafted accurately represents the Christian gospel. Do you disagree with it? If so, what part of it is incorrect?

Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 15 2010,08:56)Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Aug. 15 2010,13:42)bodhitharta wrote:Quote Treat the animals humanely and then slaughter them for your pleasure, the fact is you accept the idea of “lower Species” murder for your pleasure, so the question is why?Good question.I don't think of other animals as a lower species so much as I…[Read more]

davidbfun wrote:Quote God used slavery of His people as a way to teach them lessons.If I tried to teach my children to behave by beating them everyday, would you consider me a good father?Oh wait, the bible advocates that too.Proverbs 20:30 Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being.Quote Conquerors sold people as…[Read more]