Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2011,02:06)Hi AllTo deny the preexistence of Jesus is to deny a very basic fundamental truth. There are way to many scriptures that one has to explain away or give some ethereal interpretation to the text when it is obvious a litteral interpretation of the text is what is meant by the writers.John 6:38-40For “I…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,12:42)Quote (Paladin @ May 01 2011,16:51)I have looked again, and I do not see either seven or nine. sorry!Do you deny the possibility of my analogy?mikeMe and scripture both deny it.Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.If you wnat…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ May 02 2011,01:59)Paladin!  The problem with your logic is, that there are 50 some Scriptures that you would have to interpret your way.  What makes YOU think you know it better then the translators do?  Peace IreneDear sister;Have you given any thought to actually considering what I posted on your assessment of the “firstborn of ev…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ May 02 2011,01:59)Paladin!  The problem with your logic is, that there are 50 some Scriptures that you would have to interpret your way.  What makes YOU think you know it better then the translators do?  Peace IreneBut Dear Sister, How is that a logic problem? I can have two different sentences in a story; “Josie went to town;” & “J…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 02 2011,02:46)Quote (Paladin @ May 01 2011,07:48)Consider, if Jesus was pre-existant, and was already God's son in eternity, why does the scripture say he “became” superior to angels? He would already be so.Hi Paladin,The scripture doesn't really say that Jesus “became superior” to the angels, as if he wasn't already.  It…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2011,12:03)Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father’” ?Quote if God did not have a son then why are scriptures talked about the son,and i never say that Christ preexisted as an angel but as the first born in creation;Hello Pierre -Consider, if Jesus was pre-e…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2011,00:55)Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 29 2011,22:23)Mike…………But Jesus is not Just a ordinary Angel according to You, the world was created “THROUGH” him according to you, hardly an ordinary angel, In fact you have not produce (ONE) Scripture saying Jesus preexisted as any kind of Angel. Mike say there are…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 29 2011,11:51)Hi Marty,Here's what I wanted from you:Quote All I want to know from any of you is why this scripture CAN'T POSSIBLY be saying the person of Jesus had glory alongside God before the world was created.What SCRIPTURE prohibits my understanding of this verse?AGAIN, I DON'T ASK FOR ALTERNATE THINGS IT COULD…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ April 29 2011,01:22)Quote (Paladin @ April 28 2011,00:29)Quote (Baker @ April 27 2011,23:48)Paladin!  There are three Scriptures talking about the Mediator, you mentioned 1 Tim. 2:5Hbr 8:6   But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon b…[Read more]

Quote (terraricca @ April 28 2011,07:01)Quote (Paladin @ April 28 2011,00:50)Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,12:31)Quote (Paladin @ April 24 2011,15:47)He was not an angel:Sure he was.  “Aggelos” simply means “messenger”, and Jesus, Gabriel and John the Baptist were all “aggelos” of their God.  No, he wasn't. No scripture ever applies “…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ April 28 2011,03:21)Paladin!   First I want to say to you, I know about Grace and Hope, we're under Grace….Eph 2:8   For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: the gift of God:   Eph 2:9   Not of works, lest any man should boast.   Eph 2:10   For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ April 27 2011,23:48)Paladin!  There are three Scriptures talking about the Mediator, you mentioned 1 Tim. 2:5Hbr 8:6   But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.  Jesus gave us a new covenant under His blood, and is He no…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,13:48) Hi Marty,I don't personally believe 3:15 to be a messianic prophecy, but I get your point.  And I understand what you claim with 1 Peter 1, but tell me this:  Does Jesus being manifest to us in these last days mean that he couldn't have already existed with glory alongside God before the creation of the w…[Read more]

Quote (Wispring @ April 27 2011,16:56)Hi Paladin,Quote If I aknowledge I am a sinner, what have I said? Only that I am just like everyone else. But if, when in prayer, I acknowledge that between God and I, He is my God, and I am the sinner. I think the article makes a vast difference in this case.   Here is how using the article “the” is vastly…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2011,12:31)Quote (Paladin @ April 24 2011,15:47)He was not an angel:Sure he was.  “Aggelos” simply means “messenger”, and Jesus, Gabriel and John the Baptist were all “aggelos” of their God.  No, he wasn't. No scripture ever applies “aggelos” to Jesus. I think you are thinking of Hebrews 3:1 where Jesus is called the “…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 27 2011,15:12)Quote (Paladin @ April 26 2011,09:19)Amazing what power doctrine holds over scripture.It sure does.  Just check out the power your doctrine holds over you:Jesus – I came down from heaven.Paladin – Jesus did NOT come down from heaven.Paul – The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 27 2011,14:59)Quote (Paladin @ April 26 2011,02:26)He didn't. You are confusing John's narative with the chronology of facts.I believe it is you who is either confused or trying TO confuse. John 3:18 was put in written word by John some time after the conversation took place………….this much is true. But you forget…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 27 2011,13:51)Quote (Paladin @ April 26 2011,01:27)Mike;Do you believe as I do, that Jesus was so different from us in many ways pertaining to sin and human nature, that there is no way we can ever be exactly like he was?Hi Paladin,I am certain that you and I believe alike on many scriptural issues and could be great…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2011,12:26)Quote (Paladin @ April 25 2011,09:14)(Mike) Hi Marty, First of all, he was the “Son of Man” ever since Daniel prophesied about him.Very Good Mike. Now tell us why you deny that very same application to the incarnate Christ?Hi Paladin,Cyrus didn't pre-exist his flesh.  Cyrus did not begin “existing”, or…[Read more]

Quote (Baker @ April 26 2011,11:11)Quote (Paladin @ April 26 2011,10:16)Quote (942767 @ April 26 2011,05:49)Hi Paladin:I am sorry that this thread is way off topic and has taken a turn from what you intended to another thread for the discussion of the doctrine of pre-existence.Since I am not versed in the Greek language, please do me the favor of…[Read more]