Isaiah, the Trinity doctrine is written out in creedal form; however, there is no “set” definition for the Trinity because there is no definition given in the bible. This explains why Josh McCdowell, Lutzer, C.S. Lewis, Chuck Swindoll and many other prominent Trinitarians all hold a different definition of the Trinity (some even oppose one…[Read more]

WJ,I'm glad you bring this point up. My daughter was the one who asked me, “If Jesus was around 30 when he died on the cross, how old was God?” She naturally separates the two because it is a natural relationship (Father/Son). She sees that relationship played out in our own family. It is extremely easy for her to understand that Jesus is…[Read more]

You know what I meant, Isaiah.

Now, don't everyone go crazy with the quote of, “… because he was too complicated to understand.” I'm hoping you all know what I mean by that. Even as a Trinitarian, I understood that the Trinity was a complex doctrine. In fact, our Pastor used to tell us when we went out witnessing to – “Never introduce someone to the Trinity first. Save…[Read more]

Isaiah wrote:However, to my mind it's decidedly illogical to dismiss out of hand the possibility that the One Supreme being could be multipersonal….***********************************Would you want to talk with your earthly Father if he was “multipersonal?” Could you carry on a normal relationship with anyone who was multipersonlties? How…[Read more]

Kyle wrote: Never would I have come to the conclusion on my own that Jesus and the Holy Ghost were actually believed to be God himself in addition to the person I thought to be exclusively God.*************************************************Kyle, this has been my point exactly! No one would NATURALLY believe the Trinity on their own without…[Read more]

WJ, just exactly HOW did Jesus have glory with the Father before the world was?

What do you mean – IF – he was the Son of God and the Son of Man? Jesus IS the Son of God and the Son of Man. It is written.It is also written that Mary “conceived.” Not received an “incarnation.”Stay with what is written. But what you are confessing is interesting. I will ponder what you have said tomorrow while I do my bible study.Have a…[Read more]

Food for thought: Jesus was not the Word “OF” God until after he was born …….

Ha – Tim – I'm so glad you have a sense of humor! That is a nice thing around here Thanks for the clarification.

But back to the topic -Did God not provide the seed?How did Mary become pregnant then?Or was a true pregnancy…………what do you think, WJ? True pregnancy or incarnation?

I knew you would say that, WJ. Kind of like a “nanny-nanny-boo-boo.” Ha! But the truth of the matter is, you can look back on many of my posts (some to you, even), where I have said things like: I will consider this. I will look up these verses. I will ponder this some more. No, the truth is, I have and do consider others views. I read…[Read more]

No. Not pre-existing in a physical sense. Tim, are you saying you believe that YOU pre-existed your birth? No one did, not even Christ. We were foreknown to God, just as Jesus was.

Once again, you must infer when using the verses you point out. For NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE does it explain that God incarnated himself in the second person of his triunity (there's a new “unbiblical” word to add to the many that describe the theory of the Trinity). No disrespect meant. Just pointing out the obvious. WJ, I am posting the things…[Read more]

Two schools of thought are interesting to me:1.) Jesus is an incarnation of God himself. He is the “second person” of God, not separate from God; but indeed, God himself.2.) Jesus is the Son of the living God. Come in the flesh. His own person; with his own will, separate from God. Not God.As you read these two schools of thought, which one…[Read more]

Kyle, hello and welcome! You and I are fairly new members to this board, and yes it is wishful thinking to think that it won't turn into a debate. But, I encourage you to try and put your defenses down (as I had to) and see the debates for what they really are. I've learned a lot when I've been able to relax and LISTEN to all parties. It's…[Read more]

The truth of the matter is – and if you'll be honest here – you do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God. You believe Jesus is an incarnation.Two very different beliefs.Which one does the bible CLEARLY teach?

WJ wrote:That is pure speculation. Why dont you believe what the Lord said.****************************God also said that Jesus is his only begotten Son (born of Mary), why don't you believe that? You don't, really, believe that do you? You believe in the incarnation. So, I'll turn your words back on you and ask you why you don't simply believe…[Read more]

WJ, I especially enjoy hearing from you, and Tim2 on these subjects of “fully God and fully Man” because, of course, you have different ideas than I do.Even Nick and t8 have a different swing on this topic. It's a good topic. A favorite of mine I hope we can get back into it. Thanks.

What I am clearly contending for, and fighting for, is Jesus' right to be a true, begotten Son of God.Jesus is not an incarnation – a “second person” of God Almighty – but his own person. Not God.Given the fact that the bible says Jesus was conceived, and birthed (and provided we use our minds to know what these things mean, and not twist their…[Read more]