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[MrBob]

2 Thess. 2:2-3 (WEB)
. . .not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction

2 Thess. 2:8 (WEB)
Then the lawless one will be revealed. . .

This is talking about after the departure.

[MrBob]

Editing of posts was once allowed, but was later restricted because members were changing the entire or entire meaning of the post.

Last night, however, I noticed that I could edit my posts. Maybe you could double check.

[MrBob]

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned.

Genesis 8:21 (KJV)
. . . for the imagination of man' heart is evil from his youth. . .

There is another verse that mentions would not punish those in the womb (something like that). I tried looking for it, but I can't find it.

Anyway, it appears from scripture that people are not condemned from birth, but usually at an early age. As pointed out in Rom. 5:12, the people had to sin themselves. If condemnation was inherited through Adam, then Jesus was a null sacrifice.

[MrBob]

I wouldn't say God brought up Katrina from the start. But just like with Israel/Judah back in the day, God lifts protection from those who constantly reject and ignore Him.

I can relate somewhat about the urgency in the US. In DC (about an hour away from me) the crime is at its worst; a “crime emergency.” I was at a Metro station in N. VA last week and saw someone with an open knife as I was passing by (Probably not new, but still creepy). Someone was also robbed–on the mall.

Just in time though, because a group of believers are placing a tent on the mall with prayer, worship, etc. for a whole week. Some prayer groups are also going to pray in the worst crime areas. Just as t8 said, the children of God shine. We're the “salt of the Earth” and the “light of the world” (Matt. 5:13-14).

[MrBob]

Quote (kenrch @ July 13 2006,18:37)

Joh 6:62 What then if ye should behold the Son of man ascending where he was before? Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: “the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life”. What if you see the “Son of man” ascending where He was before? Not see me where I was before but “ascending” (going up, on the way to) where He was before. …”the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life”. It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: Jesus was not speaking of His literal flesh and blood. Jeremiah 1:5 “ Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” So Jeremiah was a thought in Jevovah's mind just as Jesus was? Are you saying that Jeremiah preceded from the Father before Jesus? That cannot be that would make Jeremiah a begotten son of Jehovah and BEFORE Jesus. Jehovah did form Jesus in the womb of Mary didn't He? Would it not be possible that Jehovah is saying that “He formed” meaning from Adam? He knew even then that from Adam would come Jeremiah. Jehovah planned all the prophets but none were begotten only Jesus was begotten. Rom 8:29 Because whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the first-born among many brothers [and sisters]. Rom 8:30 Now whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified [or, declared righteous]; but whom He justified, these He also glorified. The only way for Jeremiah to have been formed literally from Jehovah is that Jesus and all the prophets were spirit beings in heaven. That way Jesus still would be first. There was always scripture that bothered me about John the baptist. Joh 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elijah? And he saith, I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered, No. Mat 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. Mat 11:14 And if ye are willing to receive it, this is Elijah, that is to come. Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. John the Baptist didn't know that he was Elijah. John the baptist came in the spirit of Elijah. Jesus said He that hath ears let him hear. Jesus one way or another existed before he was begotten. Either as the thought, foreknowledge or a spirit being or __ what?

Genesis 3:14-15 (WEB)
Yahweh God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above every animal of the field. On your belly shall you go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will bruise your head, and you will bruise his heel.”

Good point kenrch.

To the others:
This topic was so encoruaging until the name calling at the 4th or 5th page. Why don't you start focusing on God's Word again instead of how evil everyone is? Bickering only helps one side; guess which one it is?

[MrBob]

Quote

Clearly this is an earthly place, or is it?

I'm not sure. But I did find two things that caught my eye:

– Demons have names. (Lk. 8:30)

– People can be afraid of casting out of demons (Luke 8:37). Amazing how things may have not been much different in many areas. Many people are uneasy or timid when talking about this stuff.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with what was posted before.

[MrBob]

You have already posted a topic on this.

[MrBob]

Oh, I thought you were one of the people who think being drafted in the military is a sure sign of condemnation from God (something along those lines).

Sorry for the assumption.

[MrBob]

Therefore don’t be anxious for tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Each day’s own evil is sufficient.
Matthew 6:34 (WEB)

Ultimately, we should simply trust our Father.

[MrBob]

I live in the US. I am against this bill, but it's chances are small (I would think). Even if it does pass, you can always claim religous exemption Moriet. But ultimately, we should simply trust our Father.

[MrBob]

During the time when the returned exiles used adonai (lord) instead of YHWH, they believed saying the name YHWH was blasphemy (at least that's the common thought). If that's true, the moment Jesus would have said YHWH would've resulted in an immediate accusation, but there is none to be found.

Could it have been possible that he “bit the bullet” and simply said “lord” and “father?” Samuel and Moses were lenient for hard hearts in the OT.

The message was (and is) the important part, no?

[MrBob]

Is that an affirmation?

[MrBob]

Quote (Eliyah @ Oct. 18 2005,02:59)

. . . original Hebrew J sources translation . . .

When I saw this, I couldn't believe it. Well, actually, I did believe it, but it is still strange.

The JPED/Documentary Sources theory of the Pentateuch is one of the most atheistic of them all. The theory is that there were four different sources that make up of the Pentateuch we see today. A Google search on “JPED theory” or one of the source names (Yahwist, Elohist,etc.) should give you plenty of info.

It's sad that Eliyah and others would consult scholars and judge other beleivers.

[MrBob]

Quote (MichaelTheeArchAngel @ June 12 2006,13:57)

In the book of Enoch the letters “A.K.A.E” means: Also known as Eagle. Michael the ArchAngel is also known as the Eagle and the bird of prey. See: Isaiah and Revelations. And, no I wont tell you were this info comes from!

Well, that's a problem. It's important for believers to cosult the scriptural source for claims like yours. If not, we would detract from the word as our source–and that wouldn't be good.

Quote

Most modern scholars do not believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Very true. Let's keep that in mind. Let's also remember that Wikipedia is still a wiki; it can be edited by anyone. It's a useful source, but it's not perfect.

As for the validity of the Book of Enoch, there are at least 2-3 other threads on it.

[MrBob]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2006,22:05)

He also made no comment to the woman at the well about her many marriages though he did comment that she was not married to her current partner perhaps differentiating that aspect for us.

Where? (I'm not being accusatory, just interested)

[MrBob]

The rope is Christ, no?

[MrBob]

God wishes all people to come to repentance. However, we all have seen people who have rejected the savior. Though God wishes all to be saved, people still have free will. Everyone has the chance, but not everyone takes that chance.

[MrBob]

What?

[MrBob]

Good point David, very similar to Is 1:18 's point about the days of the week.

Anyway, one of the thing about this that makes me uncomfortable is the supposed connection of the Hebrew word for Baal to the English word “God.” From Jamie's post, it seems the evidence for the connection is from the vowel pointing of “gad” in the Hebrew texts.

However, there were no vowel pointings in the original Hebrew texts (Herrell 1). These were added in the Masoretic Hebrew texts. Also, these vowel pointings are supposed to be the reason for the “misguided” translation of YHWH into Jehovah (Gabel 315). If these same people claim that the word “Jehovah” (which was derived by the vowel pointings) is wrong, how can these same people judge others of pagan worship based on these vowel pointings?

Another thing I found wrong was Eliyah's claim that the Hebrew word elohim was used as a specific title to YHWH (It's somewhere in of the first posts). However, if that is true, how can this verse be explained?

Judges 10:6 (KJV)
And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD [YHWH] , and served Baalim , and Ashtaroth , and the gods [elohim] of Syria , and the gods [elohim] of Zidon , and the gods [elohim] of Moab , and the gods [elohim] of the children of Ammon , and the gods [elohim] of the Philistines , and forsook the LORD [YHWH] , and served not him.

From the scripture above, we can see that elohim was a general reference to a god.

The biggest thing that get me angry though is what this whole dispute causes. I hate it when I see writings and such of self-righteous people who use the word “god” as “g-d” or “lord” as “l-rd.” As if they are more holy because they block out a part of the word.

The other problem that this whole “Hebrew only” argument causes is that it reinforces the claims and theories of atheistic scholars that Judaism was a “national cult” and Christianity was an attempt to save the faith by changing the “national cult” into a “supernatural cult” (Gabel 193).

Works Cited
Gabel, John B. Wheeler, Charles B. York, Anthony D. The Bible as Literature. New York: Oxford, 2000.

Herrell, Pastor V.S. The History of the Bible On-Line: The Masoretic Text. Kodak, TN: HBPH, 2000. (http://www.christianseparatist.org/ast/hist/mt.htm)

[MrBob]

Quote (TJStarfire @ April 26 2006,13:24)

Sure there are sluts everywhere you look but why would you lust after some HIV infected slut who exposes her sexuality for all to see? Looking or admiring beauty isn't the same as wanting to have sex with anything that wiggles. Lust is denotes a desire to have, so don’t give in to temptation. If you have a problem just view them all as infected, you will only be wrong about 10% of the time, so just don’t dwell on it.

Clothes aren't the sin; lust is. Yes, some women don't dress as modestly as they should, but many of them are unaware. Besides, lust is a sin whether she's full-clothed or bare-naked. Let's stop blaming the women around us for our problems. Are we to judge and view every women we fear lusting after as infected? I don't know about you, but I'll leave the judging to YHWH–not myself.

If we walk in the spirit, which means to love our sisters (believing women) and neighbors. If you can't look without sinning, turn your eyes away! Let's not judge, but walk by the spirit in love. Then, we will have victory.

[Author]

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