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carmel,

You said:

JESUS, SCRIPTURAL, LEFT THIS WORLD AFTER FORTY DAYS!

Jesus went to the Father in heaven on the third day and came back that day. After forty days, He went to heaven and stayed.

This is clear in John 20

…16Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”). 17“Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” 18Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what He had said to her.…

The words “I am ascending….” are written in the present tense and spoken on the third day.  Those words are not written in the future tense.

 

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Procleimer,

You said:

Jesus is not God, he is His Son. We are not God, we are his sons.

Believers will have the relationship as a son to God the Father as Jesus does, I agree. Believers will have a glorious body like Jesus’ glorious body, I agree. However, believers do not become sons in the same way that Jesus originally became a son, therefore, Jesus is not the prototype of others since Jesus became a son in a different manner than any other son.

Can you admit that Jesus became a son in a different manner than any other sons of God?

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carmel,

You asked:

AS YOU CAN READ ABOVE, A SON OF MAN ROSE ON THE THIRD DAY, WHILE ANOTHER SON OF MAN REMAINED THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH/HELL!

Answer please:

IS THE SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MARK THE SAME SON OF MAN MENTIONED IN MATTHEW?

It is the same person.

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Hi Jodi,

It’s been a while. I hope you are doing well considering your recent loss.

I would like to know your understanding of what the One who existed in the form of God emptied himself of as spoken of in Philippians 2:

5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

God bless, LU

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Carmel,

Jesus rose on the third day. Jesus was always perfect. Jesus is not the Father. Jesus did not inherit the nations until he returned to the Father on the the day Psalms 2 refers to, the day of his resurrection.

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Hi Berean

You said:

A point where I agree with you IS THAT YES JESUS ON THE THIRD DAY OR THE FOLLOWING DAY WENT TO THE FATHER.

Great! I believe that the ascension to the Father in the active sense by the Son was in-between when Jesus had risen and appeared to Mary and meeting with the men on the road to Emmaus. I believe that because Psalms 2 says that the day that the Father had begotten Him (from the grave) the Father said to ask Him for the nations, etc. Then the evening of the same day, Jesus told the disciples that He was given all authority in heaven and on earth, as I understand it.

You asked;

Now tell me why there would be a difference between the ascent on the third day and the ascent after the 40 days. I’m talking in terms of passive or active elevation mode…?

I believe that the ascension just after speaking to Mary on the first day of the week, the day He had risen, was in the active voice  to connect what Jesus said that about raising up “this temple” on the third day meaning His body, also in the active tense. It may also have to do with the command that He was given to lay down His life as well as given the power to take it up again, both in the active sense.

Btw, I am happy to help you guys with the Greek, I’m glad you appreciate it.

LU

 

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Carmel,

The Son of Man IS Jesus who before He became Jesus, the Son of Man (aka Son of David) was the only begotten Son of God, begotten before the ages, who was anointed to become flesh and suffer on the cross as the promised Messiah to take away our sins and then inherit the nations.

Your turn 🙂

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Gene,

Read this:

John 8:21Then He said again to them, “I go away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come.” 22So the Jews were saying, “Surely He will not kill Himself, will He, since He says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” 23And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” 25So they were saying to Him, “Who are You?” Jesus said to them, “What have I been saying to you from the beginning? 26“I have many things to speak and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and the things which I heard from Him, these I speak to the world.” 27They did not realize that He had been speaking to them about the Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. 29“And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him.” 30As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.

Jesus does nothing on His own initiative…why is that? Does He not have a clue what to do or is he too week or too impotent? No, He is perfect and can do everything the Father does. He is full of wisdom to know who to listen to and who not to listen to. Jesus listens to His Father. Smart move, who better for the Son of God to listen to and obey?

 

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Proclaimer,

Please address this post that was posted about 11 days ago:

Proclaimer:

You said:

If you agree that the first Adam was a prototype, then why not the final Adam?

LU: The second Adam was a life giving spirit. Is there another person that is a life giving spirit modeled after the second Adam? I don’t know of any.

Jesus is the firstborn from the dead and there are many to follow that act of being begotten from the dead. Those who follow can never be of the same type of being as the One who pre-existed his humanity. Those who follow are the same type of being as each other who did not pre-exist their humanity though. That is a big difference. We can never be the same type of being as the One who is both God natured and human natured.

The best we can do is to be like Him in our spirit, being full of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, joyfulness, and self-control, full of grace and truth, and in all humility honoring and obeying both the Father and the Son.

Proclaimer, Jesus isn’t a prototype son, He is an example as a son but not the same type as us.

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Carmel,

Are you clear that the Son of Man did not inherit the nations before His crucifixion but instead after?

Just yes or no Carmel, please don’t make it complicated.

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Hi Berean,

You said:

LUK 24
[51] And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

This verse shows us that Jesus is not the author of the action to go to HEAVEN.

“he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.”

It’s the “passive voice.”

That’s great Berean, you are getting the idea of the passive and active voice. What you are missing is that ascension that you quoted refers to the final ascension 40 days after His resurrection and not the ascension on the first day of the resurrection that He speaks to Mary about. One the first day, when Jesus is speaking to Mary, Jesus said that He will ascend to the Father and He uses the active voice. Jesus does the act of ascending on that “third day” ascension.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

In case you want to look at the interlinear where I go to check the “voice” of verbs it is on Bible Hub. I get the most out of Bible Hub on my desk top computer instead of my mobile device but I use it on both. Below is the link to the verse in John 20:17 that shows the Greek words on the top and the English words beneath them and the grammar codes beneath the English words. If you look for the English words “I am ascending” and see beneath them the grammar codes “V-PIA-1S” it is there you will see that the word translated as “I am ascending” is a V for verb, P for present tense, I for Indicative (a statement) an A for the active voice, a#1 for the word spoken in the first person and the S for a singular person and not plural.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/20-17.htm

Nice try! If you have any questions about the Interlinear tool, just ask. I’m not a scholar but I am very familiar with it. I use it nearly every time I sit down to study the Bible.

God bless, LU

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Hi Berean,

You said:

In the case of Jesus “Resurrection” means physically passing from death to life.
And “ascension” to “rise” from earth to HEAVEN.

Can you show me a verse that Jesus was resurrected before He met Mary in the garden where the verse actually has the Greek word for “resurrected” and not just “raised up?”

I believe that the raising up and the ascension were 2 parts of the complete act that happened on day three. One part the Father actively did and the other part the Son actively did.

BTW, why did you use Psalm 24:3 in your post? I don’t believe that refers to heaven. One can ascend to the top of a mountain and one can ascend to heaven.

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Carmel,

Psalms 2 tells us that it is after the Son returns to the Father at the ascension when He inherits the nations and makes it clear that the Son did not already have them until then.

Psalms 2:7

“I will declare the [g]decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9You shall [h]break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”

Read Acts 3:33 for confirmation.

32“And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, 33that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.’ 34“As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.’ 35“Therefore He also says in another Psalm, ‘YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.’ 36“For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep, and was laid among his fathers and underwent decay; 37but He whom God raised did not undergo decay.

[Lightenup]

Berean,

You forgot this

RESURRECTION

Strong’s #386 anastasis: a standing up, i.e. a resurrection, a raising up, rising.

and this one:

RAISE UP

Strong’s #450 anistémi: to raise up, to rise

Jesus raised up His “temple” on the third day by ascending to the Father.

Both words you listed and the two here can mean rise/raise up.

God raised Jesus through the power of the Holy Spirit, from the dead and showed Him to Mary. Then Jesus ascended (raised up “this temple,” His body after speaking to Mary in the garden).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Gene,

I choose to make Jesus Lord of my life or not, no one can force me. My God is much bigger than a god that forces his will on others.

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Berean,

Jesus laid down His life for His sheep starting with the agreement to empty Himself and become a bondservant. He took it up again when He ascended back to His Father and received all authority in heaven and on earth. His ascension to the Father on day three after He was talking to Mary is the part of the resurrection that Jesus did by His own power. Does that help?

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Berean,

LU: Can you show me a verse that is about Jesus’s resurrection that the grammar shows Jesus doing the action in an active voice as opposed to a passive voice?

Berean:

… in an active voice …!!!???

Sorry, that is confusing if you do not know Greek grammar. You see, the verbs in Greek have specific endings that tell many things about the verb.

Read this:

VOICE
Biblical Greek has three voices, active, middle, and passive:

The Active Voice: This occurs when the action of the verb is being performed by the subject.

The Middle Voice: When the subject of the verb does action unto itself, or for its own benefit, the middle voice is used.

The Passive Voice: The passive represents the action of the verb being done unto the subject but not by the subject.

From: https://www.blueletterbible.org/help/greekverbs.cfm

 

[Lightenup]

Gene,

If our will was not greater than God’s will, we wouldn’t be asked to surrender our will. God can make us do things against our will if He needs to but that would be merciful, not obligatory. God wants us to lay down our life and take up our cross, He doesn’t force us to however. We have a choice. When we lay down our life and take up our cross, we invite God to work in us to do His good pleasure in us which would be for our good as well.

Luke 9:22“The Son of Man must suffer many things,” He said. “He must be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.” 23Then Jesus said to all of them, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. 24For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.…

Gene, “If anyone wants to come after Me he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me.” That is a choice Gene. We are free to choose. Choose life by losing your life and follow Jesus.

[Lightenup]

Interesting Proclaimer, thanks for posting. Another example of the rocks crying out!

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Gene, if the Holy Spirit possesses us and forces us to speak and act and obey, when we receive the Holy Spirit, then the fruit of the Spirit would not be “self-control” it would be other controlled.

Galatians 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control.

The fruit of the Spirit is SELF control. The Holy Spirit guides us but doesn’t force us. We should make the choice to be filled and controlled by the Holy Spirit but that choice is not forced on us.

Jesus had his own spirit (the Spirit of Christ) as well as the Spirit of the Father. Their Spirits were united as one Spirit. Jesus was led by the Father’s Spirit by choice, not by force. If we have the Spirit of Christ in us, we will also be led by choice to follow the spirit of both of them.

1 Peter 1:10Concerning this salvation, the prophets who foretold the grace to come to you searched and investigated carefully, 11trying to determine the time and setting to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

For the Spirit of Christ to be IN the prophets of the OT, the Spirit of Christ had to exist. Since the Spirit of Christ existed in the OT, Christ existed in the OT. 

You can have the Spirit of Christ in you too. The Holy Spirit is the united spirit of both the Father and the Son. When the Holy Spirit is within us, we have fellowship with both the Father and the Son. The Spirit of the Son within us will call out “Abba Father” to our Father and Christ’s Father. It will teach us that God is our Father.

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