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[Laurel]

Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 31 2010,13:11)

We worship Yahuweh Elohim in spirit and in truth. His word is truth. His word is Torah. His Torah is His will for us, His instructions on how He wants us to live. So by keeping the commands we worship Him. Also by dancing and singing, and praying, praising Him for all He has given us, then too we should esteem His Son, praising Him for sending His Son for us. Worship comes natural to those who love YAH and love to serve Him. Teaching His will to our children is another way to worship Him.

I'm reposting this earlier answer on how i worship YHWH ELohim. I thought it was plain enough. I was very specific. Here are more…

To worship means to esteem with praise out of respect and love.

Keeping the commands because we love our Father in heaven esteems Him.

Believing that Yahushua is the Messiah esteems Him.

Loving our brothers and sister, and especially strangers esteems Him.

Caring for the poor, the widows, and the orphans esteems Him.

Teaching His true name to people who think His name is G_d or Lord esteems Him.

There are many ways to worship Yahuweh.

Repenting from sin and NOT doing that same thing over again esteems Him.

Being awestruck when looking at a night sky and pondering upon YHWH who created the heavens esteems Him.

Bringing the Good News of His kingdom to someone who has not heard that YHWH is ELohim, and He created the heavens, the earth, the seas, and fountains of water, esteems Him.

I could go on and on and on…

Here are a few that DO NOT esteem our ABBA.

Celebrating PAGAN holidays and saying we are doing it for Him, does not esteem Him.

Forsaking the commands does not esteem Him.

Rejecting His Son does not esteem Him.

Lying, stealing, cheating, commiting adultery, being disobedient to our parents do not esteem YHWH.

[Laurel]

Lighten up,
The Sabbath memorial was instituted at creation. Keeping the 7th day Sabbath is a sign to YHWH Elohim that He is our El, and that we esteem Him alone as Creator, Sustainer, and Savior. The Sabbath proclaims the Good News!

Your words about old creation and new creation are “new to me” and i have read Scripture and loved Scripture for many years, never having read there about a new creation or anywhere where the Sabbath memorial, and sign of His everlasting covenant was ever changed to the SUN's day which is the day of pagan worship to their false elohim, and always has been since Babylon.

In the words of my favored Teacher, “Till heaven and earth pass, not one yood nor one flourish shall pass from the Torah till ALL is fulfilled.”

So as long as this planet remains, so does His Torah.

The problem is that we have been taught to “separate” ourselves from the Jews rather than embracing them. They are Yahushua's kinfolk. There may only be one place where we can meet face to face and agree with them, and this is in the Torah which the Messiah kept, and was “in the flesh.” To reject a single letter of Torah is to reject the Messiah.

Without Torah there is no need for a Messiah! No law, no sin, no Messiah necessary! It is the favorite lie of the Deceiver.

I choose life. I choose Torah, and know why i need a Messiah and when He was born, and why He had to die, because i believe Torah which teaches me righteousness from wrongness, and i know that YHWH is ELohim.

Every command, statute, and law has some spiritual lesson to teach us, so why not learn from the Creator Himself and embrace His word, all of it!

Yahushua said that even if a man came back from the dead an unbeliever in Moses' Torah would not believe the One who came back from the dead.

[Laurel]

He was NOT born in a cave either! Religion and all the books written by men make me sick. Only Scripture is the trustworthy inspired word of the All Mighty and anything else is a lie.

[Laurel]

ALL of the Pagan man-made mighty ones were born on the winter solstice (birth of the sun). How did this happen? They are all the same person whom the whole world worshipped in Babylon before the languages were changed! Tammuz, Zeus, Mithra, were all born on Dec. 25th! and for anyone who may still be decieved, santa claus IS NOT real, but Satan is.

The Messiah was born in the fall, what we call September/October, which is the 7th month on the Creator's calander. He was born in a Tabernacle/Sukka, and was circumcised on the eighth day “according to Scripture” which was a High Sabbath that year, also know as the Last Great Day and The Day of the LORD, the last day after the Feast of Tabernacles/Sukkot.

But ya'll wouldn't know that since you celebrate the sun-day and forsake the Sabbaths of the All Mighty.

Did you all realize that the name September means seven, October means eighth, November means nine, and December means 10.

Yahushua Messiah was born in the 7th month, which means He was concieved durring Chanukkah, and why not? He is the light of the world!

[Laurel]

I know nothing about Je_us, but Yahushua the Messiah was tempted whic is to say that HaSatan promised him the whole world if Yahushua would bow to HaSan, but Yahushua Messiah did not fall into that temptation. He did not even consider the offer!

[Laurel]

We worship Yahuweh Elohim in spirit and in truth. His word is truth. His word is Torah. His Torah is His will for us, His instructions on how He wants us to live. So by keeping the commands we worship Him. Also by dancing and singing, and praying, praising Him for all He has given us, then too we should esteem His Son, praising Him for sending His Son for us. Worship comes natural to those who love YAH and love to serve Him.
Teaching His will to our children is another way to worship Him.

[Laurel]

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 16 2010,14:52)

Hi Laurel, To see the truth you should come out of biased doctrines of Christianity. I have shown you how the Trinitarian writer of Hebrews failed to interpret Hebrew Bible on New Covenant. If you still hold such man-made doctrines I can not help. You should read Jewish scholars like Maimonides who outrightly rejected Christian Messiah as Jewish Messiah. It is good that you uphold Torah and TaNaK. Please see the truth in those Hebrew scriptures. I can tell you the Hellenistic writers of N.T fabricated these Christian scriptures by taking bits and parts of Hebrew scriptures to suit their dogma. Open your eyes to see the light of truth. Love and peace to you Adam

Adam,
I do not follow man-made doctrines, rules or teaditions! That is what coming out of Babylon means! I left the church and that was over 4 years ago. When i left her (the Whore) i also threw away all her abominations “like a menstrual cloth.”

The problem is Adam, that you are looking at the Hebrew Brit HaChodesh as if it is the new age covenant of the Whore which it is not. When you take the blinders off you will see what i see. There is NOTHING in the Brit HaChodesh writings that is contrary to Torah, EXCEPT a mistranslation here and there because the scribes were people who practiced paganisim mingled with truth, and did their best to translate thinking they were on the right path.

The book of Hebrews was not written for Jews specifically. It was written for people just like me and Abraham who were once involved in paganisim and left! The book of Hebrews is clear that the Sabbath remains for the people of ELohim!

Please PM me on the flaws you think you found and i will try to show you the truth.

SHaul sat at the feet of Gamli'el. He was instructed in Torah since a youth. He was considered a brilliant student. SHaul was killing believers as commanded by the Roman/Jewish political leaders of his day. He was there when Steven was stoned to death. They lay Steven's coat at Shaul's feet, because it was Shaul who ordered Steven be stoned.

Read Steven's testimony. There is nothing in it that is not true. Later SHaul was converted to “believer status” converted meaning he became a Hebrew, one who crossed over. Shaul never quit obeying Torah, and never taught against obedience. His new teaching was to LOVE Yahuweh ELohim, “know that Yahushua is the sent one” and obey Torah not because doing it would save, but because doing it shows others Who we worship.

Being saved by grace is nothing new. The word GRACE is mentioned MORE times in the TeNaK than in the Brit Chodesh.

Shaul taught that even Abraham believed, and followed YHWH's will.

I will also point out that Shaul never taught against physical circumcision. His point was that physical circumcision was obedience to the command, but heart circumcision was what YHWH Elohim looked for in believers. Heart circumcision first, physical circumcision last.

Shaul taught “the renewed Covenant” through a circumcised heart, where the Torah is written on the heart “to walk in it.”

We are saved the minute we repent and commit to obedience through belief that YHWH is Elohim, meaning we no longer follow men or lust after our own fleshy desires, we choose to worship YHWH according to His will as written in Torah and taught by the Prophets. This means we become a student of the Torah, because without it, we will never know what sin is or why we need a Messiah in the first place. How can one repent is one does not know what is right or what is wrong. Only the Torah of ELohim has been preserved so that we can PROOVE ALL THINGS.

Now i agree that there are some things that the Messiah has yet to fulfill, but the Feasts are shadow pictures of how He did fulfill some of the prophecy and how will will return to fulfill the rest.

When the JEWS taught about the twin goat offering THEY WERE SUPPOSED to kill one and let the other go free into the widerness, BUT they killed one and pushed the other over a cliff CHANGING the SHADOW PICTURE.

When Mosheh struck the rock the second time, this unrighteous act also changed the shadow picture for CHristians who think they need to kill the Messiah over and over and over every week at their catholic mass, when Scripture indicates that He would only die ONE TIME.

Yahuweh's Word is not the confusion, it is disobedience to it that leads people astray! The Torah is a lamp unto my feet.

[Laurel]

Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 09 2009,20:26)

Here are some of the points which demonstrate the blatant discrepancies and inconsistancies in the Missionaries' arguments in favor of Jesus. The Jewish Messiah is to be a mortal human being born to two mortal parents. He is neither to be a god, nor a man born of supernatural or virgin birth. There is nothing in the Bible that states that the Messiah would be a god or God-like, or that he would be born to a virgin. The concept of the former contradicts the Jewish concept of God being above and beyond taking human form and limitations. Jews believe that only God should be worshipped, not a being of His creation, not even the Messiah himself. Besides, nowhere in the Bible is there any virgins giving birth. This idea is only found in pagan mythology, where virgins often bare offsping of gods. The only purpose of the concept of virgin birth is to attract pagans to Christianity. The Jewish Messiah is supposed to return the Jews to the Holy Land, but Jesus lived while the Jews were still there before they were exiled by the Romans. How can he return them to their land if they were still living in it? The Messiah is to rebuild the Jerusalem Temple, but Jesus lived while the Temple was still standing. The Bible states that the Messiah will redeem Israel, but 30 years after Jesus died, Jerusalem was destroyed, and the Jews were exiled by the Roman to suffer 1900 years of persecution, mostly by the followers of Jesus. The Prophets of the Bible foretold that all the nations of the world will acknowlege and worship the one true God (Isaiah 11.9, 45, and Zephaniah 3), but nothing like this happened after Jesus died; in fact, Islam develpoed and became the religion of many nations while Christianity splintered into many sects which constantly fight each other, and almost two-thirds of the human race worships idols. The world is very far from monotheism even to this day. The Messiah's influence will extend to all who will worship God in the Jerusalem Temple. As the Prophet states, “My House will become the House of Prayer for all the Nations. This has clearly not taken place yet; therefore, the Messiah hasn't come yet. A new spirit will fill the world man will no longer sin or commit crimes, especially the Jews (Deutteronomy 30: 6, Isaiah 60:21, Jeremiah 50:20, and Ezekiel 36:21). Soon after the days of Jesus, ignorance of God, science, and philosophy filled the earth, and the Dark Ages began. If Jesus was God, why did he pray to and talk to himself? The true Messiah will reign as King of the Jews. Jesus' carrer as a wandering preacher and “faith healer” lasted only three years until he was crucified by the Romans as a common criminal without any official postition or authority whatsoever. One of the Messiah's main tasks is to bring world peace by ending wars and arms manufacturing (Isaiah 2:4). Yet, Christian nations are very war-like, and wars continue to be fought to this day. Mark 13:30 and Matthew 4 states that the prophecies about the Messiah would take place during Jesus' generation, but nothing was accomplished after 2,000 years. Nohwere does the Bible say that the Messiah would come once, die, and return in a “second coming”. Such a concept was a Christian concept meant to rationalize Jesus' failure to function in any way as the Messiah or fulfill the Hebrew Bible's prophecies. The Bible says that the Messiah would be descened from King David. If Jesus is the “Son of God”, how could he be descened from King David from his father's side? Missionaries constantly and deliberatly distort the meaning of the prophets' words in order to substantiate their claims; for example, the Hebrew term in Isaiah , “almah” means “young woman”, not “virgin”. Honest Christian scholars now admit this is a “pious fraud”, and they translate the word correctly in the “Reverse Standard Version” of the Bible. If Jesus' raising from the dead was so important to demonstrate who he was, why did it take place in secret instead of in the presence of his “thousands' of followers? Jesus claimed that he didn't intend to change the laws of Moses (Matthew 5), but he later abrogated some of the laws, and his followers later abolished or changed nearly all of them; for example, Christians still eat pork and fail to celebrate Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanna despite what the Torah says. The Torah constantly says that its laws are eternal, and they can't be abolished or changed. Judaism believes that God is eternal, above, and beyond time. He can't be born, die, suffer, “become flesh”, or be divivded into sections (“Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”). If Jesus was the Messiah, why does the New Testiment admit that not one of the rabbis of the time accept his claim? Why did all the educated men and prominent men reject him? If Jesus was the Messiah, why did most of his own people, the Jews of that time, reject him, including his own family? Why did his followers consist almost completely of a handful of poorly educated people? Jesus ordered his followers to preach to the Jews only, not the Gentiles (Matthew 10), but his followers did the exact opposite. He clearly considered himself th Messiah of the Jews only, but he is accepted by foreign nations, and not the Jews. Source: http://www.angelfire.com/ri2/gideonbernstein/ The purpose of the Messiah is to bring us to the day when all the Jews will observe the Torah and to teach it to all humankind who will accept its truths. Nowhere in the Torah does it state that the Messiah will abolish it. The Torah is eternal. Nowhere in the Torah does it state that forgivness of a person's sins can be brought about by someone else's death. Each man isaccountable for his own sins, and each man must repent of his own sins by changing his ways and seeking God's forgiveness. Matthew 1 and Luke 3 both give different accounts of Jesus being descended from King David through his father Joseph. If Jesus was the “Son of God”, why did he say on the cross, “My God, my God, why did thou foresake me?” instead of “My Father”?

Spoken like a good religious Jew who follows after the teachings and doctrines of men, and who even rejected that Yahushua died according to Passover, ressurected as the First Fruits, and provided the fulfillment of Shavout when the Set Apart Spirit came down from heaven BRIDGED the language barrier curse of Babel, to annoint those in attendence (at the Feast) with the Spirit of the Holy One of Yisra'el!

All these unbelievers are the same ones who didn't believe Him then! They are the same ones who withheld the Spirit to those who listened to them becaue of their own man-made laws and tradition which are contrary to Torah!

So you can disbelieve all day, but the truth is the religious Jews are just as unholy as religious Christians and you will all fall into the ditch together!

The Jews do not believe in Jesus because the Christians say Jesus is God. The truth is there is only one Elohim and His Name is Yahuweh!

The Chritians think there is a brand new covenant, but the BIBLE teaches that the covenant is going to be RENEWED!

So while you are all arguing POINTLESS matters, the truth is passing you by. SO i say keep on keeping on, i hope you like the dark. Has it been so long since you saw light that you would be blinded by it.

Satan has you all right where he wants you, fighting over nothing, and full of selfish pride to look to find your own unrighteousness so that you could repent and return.

[Laurel]

One more thing i want to point out is that the Spirit is not our brain. Our brains are flesh, and our thoughts are continually evil. Whenever we try to reason of our own thoughts we will never be able to see the truth. To say that our brains are spirit because we can't see them is plain silly.

[Laurel]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 12 2010,00:13)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 11 2010,13:56) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,12:55) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 11 2010,12:31) Hi Mike, Once again you try to bring up more irrelevances based on your misunderstanding “OF” the Scriptures. Is it any different: if we said 'the mind of Mike' is upset? Yes Ed.  Because one could say, “The mind of Mike was bewildered at the nonsense Ed J posted, but the heart of Mike was in a good place and happy that God loved Ed J anyway, and the body of Mike was well rested because of his happy heart.” So once again, answer the question.  Should Acts 5:9 read “the God of God”? mike Hi Mike, THE SPIRIT “OF” GOD is GOD! (John 1:1) John 4:24 God is Spirit: and they that worship him(YHVH) must worship him in spirit and in truth. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed You stick to your believes that the “Holy Spirit” is God, as the JWs stick to their believes that God is through with the nation Israel. I don't know how many scriptures I have shown them to the contrary; they just wont butch.   When the bible says, “God's Holy Spirit”, or, the Spirit “OF” God, and Paul says, there is a “spirit” in man; what in your mind is meant by this “SPIRIT”? what is a spirit? I know God is spirit, that is his nature; but, so are the angels, and so is Jesus. Paul says, not all flesh is the same flesh; you have the flesh of fishes, flesh of birds, flesh of beasts, and flesh of man; but we are all flesh. I believe there are differences of spirits in the “spirit world”, but, they are all spirit beings. To be a spirit being, angel, does not make the angel “god”. The word “god” simply means a “mighty” one, the bible shows us that. Psa 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.   Psa 82:6   I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.   “GOD the Father” is the “ALMIGHTY ONE”. Act 5:9   Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out This is how it reads in my bible, it says, “”Spirit of the Lord””; I may want to agree that it is the Spirit “OF” God, but how do you make that the Spirit “IS” God out of that? How do you worship God in “spirit” and in “truth”? You worship him in your “mind”, that is your spirit. Paul called it a spirit because it is the only “invisible” part “OF” man. How do you worship God in “truth”? you worship God according to the teaching of Jesus; by “not” falsifying the testimonies of Jesus. Georg

George,
The verse you quoted saying the Spirit of the LORD should and does say the Spirit of Yahuweh, you just can't see past the “letter” and it is not your fault. Yahushua Messiah said WOE to the scribes and to the Pharisees because they cause men to sin by their tradition.

How are we supposed to know that Lord in English is Yahuweh Elohim? Good question!

To find your answer go to the TeNak, because the TeNaK is the Word that was made flesh, who is the Messiah, so do not be afraid to search out the answer to your question!

Look here from the TeNaK:
Deut.6:13 “Fear יהוה your Elohim and serve Him, and swear by His Name.
14 “Do not go after other mighty ones, the mighty ones of the peoples who are all around you, 15 for יהוה your Elohim is a jealous Ěl in your midst, lest the displeasure of יהוה your Elohim burn against you, then He shall destroy you from the face of the earth.
16 “Do not try יהוה your Elohim as you tried Him in Massah. 17 “Diligently guard the commands of יהוה your Elohim, and His witnesses, and His laws which He has commanded you. 18 “And you shall do what is right and good in the eyes of יהוה, that it might be well with you, and you shall go in and possess the good land of which יהוה swore to your fathers, 19 to drive out all your enemies from before you, as יהוה has spoken.

Pro 20:27 The spirit of a man is the lamp of יהוה, Searching all his inmost parts.

Isa 59:21 “As for Me, this is My covenant with them,” said יהוה: “My Spirit that is upon you, and My Words that I have put in your mouth, shall not be withdrawn from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendantsʼ descendants,” said יהוה, “from this time and forever.”

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Master יהוה is upon Me, because יהוה has anointed Me to bring good news to the meek. He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim release to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound,
Isa 61:2 to proclaim the acceptable year of יהוה,

Finally Kepha (Peter) explains everything.
Act 5:3 But Kĕpha said, “Ḥananyah, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Set-apart Spirit and keep back from the price of the land for yourself?
Act 5:4 “While it remained, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your authority? Why have you conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to Elohim.”

Hopefully now you can have some understanding Georg.
Laurel

[Laurel]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 15 2010,09:08)

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 14 2010,22:03) Hi Tim. Thanks. You  said, Quote karmarie: I have no label other than one I will make up: I am a follower of Jesus! I have read some of the Gnostic gospels yet in truth I don't even know what the word Gnostic means. So, no I am not a Gnostic. Gnostics believe that God of the Old Testament was a 'lesser god', and that Jesus came to reveal the true Father. Do you believe God of the Old Testament is the Father of Jesus ? Quote People say Adam sinned but the Bible says they had a choice, kinda like today, I set before you good and evil, now, you choose, but choose good Thats true. Once the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth then we know from scripture what is right or wrong. So we choose if we obey God or if we disobey. Quote If we all belive in peace and love, that is what will be. That is true. Quote Or he got puffed up and thought he was above others due to his great works which did the same thing as condemnation. I believe there are people who try to do no wrong yet they're 'hearts are far from Him'. I believe making mistakes is part of the learning process. But for reformation, obedience to God learnt through error. Quote Finally my answer, stay away from self condemnation and condemnation of others. If you judge something as wrong to do, don't transgress it! If you do, accept forgiveness and try again. Don't hold on to unforgiveness. Self condemnation blocks the light of God from our minds. Sin thinking cuts off the truth/light. Jesus said my words cleanse you and you are perfect. Recieve that judgment and you are free. Let the master of all, the King of kings and lord of lords be your judge. That is the word of God/Jesus judging us as perfect, whole, complete, sinless, clean, worthy, righteous etc.! Then we can show the world true LOVE! IMO TK But Tim, If I say I am a Christian, show people I am, then go on and sin ? Ok, say I had a friend and I told her I was a believer, and she admired what I had and began to wonder and pray, or maybe God started working in her, and then if I sinned and coveted her husband, and then acted on that sin, then her faith in what she was learning is shattered, just as her marriage would be. So, I see what you are saying, but I also hear what Jesus was saying. Jesus lived the law perfectly. Not only that, but it became an issue involving not just actions or lack of, but also something of the thoughts and heart, something deeper. So if I was to look lustfully at another, then I have committed sin already. If I was to think of murdering someone, then I have already committed murder. And every sin is punishable if not truly repented of, and repentance means changing the behavior. 'Sin no more' Jesus said repeatedly not to sin. Not even to think of sin (You are right here but in the wrong way I think) We are supposed to be 'perfect'.  Perfect not just in what we do or don't do, but perfect in our thoughts and our hearts. I would put here verses to show this, but there are too many – see. Sin or the thought of sin separates us from God. So Tim, is this how you see it or what ? karmarie: Bless you. I love your questions and will do my best to answer them from my heart. I don't know how you all make those quote boxes, that would help me. The ot God: If people were honest there are many variations of “God” in the old testament. “Lord God”, “the Lord” and I do not believe they all represent the “Father God” of the nt. If the nt Father God as represented by Jesus is “love” then in many cases it could not be the same God. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care about the ot one way or the other. It is a history book to me. The old testament is past, the new testament is in effect. It appears to me that you believe that the plan of God through Jesus is somehow to make us walk or talk or do the things of life one way or another. Like we have a rule book and we are being judged as to which direction we choose. IMO that is not the truth. The freedom Jesus came to teach and show to all was intended to make humanity free from that very belief. IMO we are not being judged by what we do or don't do in this life. We are in a war in our minds for the truth of God or non-truth of Man. Errant thinking has separated man from union with God for generations. IMO, errant thinking is sin in the mind of man. This is the cause separation or disunity man has felt with God for generations. Sin is not something you do or don't do! My definition of sin is: Condemnation in your heart against others or your self for something done that separates him or the other person from God. In Christ there is no condemnation. In the same way Christ does not condemn you, do not condemn others or yourself! Choosing good or evil in the mind and making a condemning judgment that something done or not done is good or bad in the eyes of God is not our business. This is sin and causes a sin consciousness. Believing that you are doing wrong depresses the spirit. It covers the light within. It renders the powerful mind of Christ week or even powerless. Forgiveness and righteousness, worthyness, cleanliness and perfection in the mind energize it, brighten it, excite it and generate great power to bring forth what ever one dreams on into their life to be experienced. We were made to dream until the dream comes true! God, all the power of the universe can flow through a mans mind that is clear, uncluttered, unblocked, clean with no sin thinking. This is the perfection that I believe Jesus gave his life for us to find! If you can hear no evil, see no evil, and think no evil there will be no evil, death, disease, or sickness experienced in your life on earth. We were made to live in heaven on earth! Don't try to be good enough to get to God or please God! Jesus did it for you and gave it to you for free as a gift.Faith is what pleases God. Faith in what he has had done for us at great price. Now, every day is the sabbath rest with Jesus in perfection and freedom. This is what he died for. God bless you. PS: Jesus did not follow the law. He did not follow the sabbath laws. His disciples picked and ate corn on the sabbath. Jesus did not exercise lawful washings or rituals. Jesus did not pay the temple tax. Jesus healed on he sabbath. Jesus set the woman free from adultry where the law said she must be stoned. Ei ther adultry wasn't a sin or Jesus broke the law by setting her free! Lastly, if you are in God and God is in you (peace,love,joy etc.) then the thought of murder or killing is not there. The word sin was used twice in Matthew, Mark and Luke! I would not say that  Jesus repeatedly said not to sin. Perfect is not what we can do. Perfect is what God has done for us through Jesus. If you believe, you are perfect. If you don't believe, you have condemned youself. Bless you, TK

Tim i understand what you are saying, BUT what you are saying is so inconsistant with Scripture that you can't even tell that the SAME Yahuweh Elohim from the OT is the same Yahuweh Elohim in the NT.

That is how wrong you are, and it should be a warning to you that you are most likely following ANOTHER SPIRIT, or you are just plain dumb, The latter bing the safer, because YHWH Elohim is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and His Son testifies to it!

Heb 13:5 Let your way of life be without the love of money, and be satisfied with what you have. For He Himself has said, “I shall never leave you nor forsake you,”
Heb 13:6 so that we boldly say, “יהוה (Yahuweh)is my helper, I shall not fear what man shall do to me.”
Heb 13:7 Remember those leading you, who spoke the Word of Elohim to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their belief.
Heb 13:8 יהושע Messiah is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Heb 13:9 Do not be borne about by various and strange teachings.1 For it is good for the heart to be established by favour, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

Folks like you Tim who do not believe truth, make idols to yourselves, twisting truth to fit your own expectations, and sdoing uch a thing will kill you!

Now do not make up excuses. That is what you said, and even went as far as to say that “it dosen't matter.”
Here is what you said Tim,
“”The ot God: If people were honest there are many variations of “God” in the old testament. “Lord God”, “the Lord” and I do not believe they all represent the “Father God” of the nt. If the nt Father God as represented by Jesus is “love” then in many cases it could not be the same God. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care about the ot one way or the other. It is a history book to me. The old testament is past, the new testament is in effect.””
unquote Tim.

You went as far as saying that “it” could not be the same god.

Maybe you should just save yourself some pain and find a volcano and jump in.

[Laurel]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 14 2010,20:46)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 14 2010,04:26) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2010,11:02) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 14 2010,02:51) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2010,23:29) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 13 2010,23:04) karmarie: Neither offering was bad or wrong or evil, it was just that the lord preferred the meat offering over the vegetable offering (?) IMO TK Hi Tim, You certainly do NOT know God's word very well; do you? The ground was ‘cursed’ because of Adams sin. (Gen.3:17) Cain brought a curse offering to YHVH, but Abel's was pure! That's why Cains offering was unacceptable to YHVH! Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed:  You say the Bible says… cursed is the ground because of Adams sin. The Bible says, ….the Lord said to Adam ….cursed is the ground for thy sake….! The word sin is not in the Garden unles you make it up. How well do you know the Bible? Hi Tim, YHVH gave (The Law) the command not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Sin is the ‘transgression of the law’. (1John 3:4) Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Ed Amen! Thats pretty clear. Also John said that whoever says he has no sin is a liar! 1 John 1:8 WJ WJ: When John said….whoever says he has no sin is a liar….was that in reference to a person before he ask God for forgiveness or after he ask God for forgiveness? I was under the impression that if one ask God/Jesus to forgive his sins, they would be forgiven! If he is forgiven of his sin then how could it be that he is a liar if he says he has no sin? That kinda misquote could really mess up a young new believer that has just received cleansing from Jesus for sin. To tell him he is a liar if he says his sins are forgiven and blotted out. The real truth is after receiving for forgiveness for sin if one then said he actually still had sin, that would be the liar! Quoting 1John 1:8 without quoting V7 & V9 seems almost to be a purposeful attempt at damnation to the readers. I must be wrong. TK

Scripture indicates there were many who were called righteous. Abraham is one of them. But there was a time before Abraham became a Hebrew that he lived in Ur which is in Babylon. Abraham;s father was a pagan worshipper in Ur.

YHWH called Abram out of Babel and Abraham “followed YHWH” which is why he was called righteous. Everyone who truely leaves the fleshy lusts of the world in repentence and follows YAH's Torah are considered righteous if they actually walk the walk. Abraham's “heart was circumcised” he was part of the “renewed covenant, before Yisra'el was even born!

The name Abraham appears at least 70 times in the Brit HaChodesh (renewed covenant/new teatament).
He was called the father of “OUR BELIEF.”

And if this word is true, then you can learn much about the way of our belief the way it should be by studying the TeNaK and the stories about Abraham.

I believe it.

[Laurel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 14 2010,12:48)

Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 14 2010,06:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2010,12:43) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,04:05) (there is a conotation of more than one person in the name Elohim) Hi Ted, Not even close.  I have become quite knowledgeable about this subject through the process of debating it with Kangaroo Jack. The word “elohim” can either mean “more than one god” or “a grandiose god”.  It can never mean “more than one person in a Godhead”. This “plural of majesty” as it is commonly called, is used many times in scripture for other words than “god” also.  For example, King Nebuchadnezzar was called the “Kings of kings”.  That first plural “Kings” did not mean Nebuchadnezzar consisted of more than one person.  It emphasized that he was the “grandiose King above other kings”.  That's just one example. peace and love, mike Greetings Mike….perhaps the person was the wrong choice of words ….I would think that the conotation in the term elohim indicates more than one ….perhaps even family… The “connotation”?  Why………..because it is a plural word? Spell it out for me Ted.   peace and love, mike

Mike,
You are correct. Elohim never means more than one when speaking of Yahuweh. Yahuweh is Elohim means that Yahuweh is above all and especially all the man-made elohim which i used here in the plural.

[Laurel]

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 13 2010,03:25)

Hi Laurel Shalom, Thanks for you personal sharing here. Don't worry I am also with you even I am hated by many brothers here and in my personal life. I do believe in my heart Yahushua is my Messiah and Yahweh is my Elohim. But I still have doubts on N.T which deviated from O.T in many aspects. I am bringing such material on N.T to redact and separate fact from fiction. I don't agree with you on Matthew's genealogy being of Mary. In fact both Matthew and Luke gave the genealogy of Joseph which is immaterial for us when he has not contributed for Jesus' birth. Regards to other unfulfilled prophecies Christianity's safe answer of second coming has no role in Jewish Messiah. It is purely the invention of Christianity to cover up Jesus failed promises of establishing God's kingdom in his own generation. Please think over. Love and peace to you Adam

Adam,
Then no one ever explained to you how Yahushua Messiah fulfilled the Spring Feasts?

Once you learn that, you'll see how the Fall Feast are yet to be fulfilled, and the book of Revelations will begin to make sense to you.

I agree that through many translations we have some inconsistancies in the Brit Chodesh writings (renewed covenant) but fot the most part they are still intact.

There are some mistakes when speaking of the Biblical Holy Days since the translators “thought” they were done away with and never kept them themselves, so they didn't comprehend some things and translated the best they could, because even their translation contradicts itself.

Another mistake, which is a huge one, which also contradicts their own translation is the name by where we are baptized. On every occasion where a person was baptised they used the name Yahushua which is to say YHWH is salvation. There is one spot that says to baptize “in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. If that is true, then all the recorded baptisims were done wrong because they only baptised in the name Yahushua. Therefore there was some “added text” which is consistant with some of the oldest records.

About Joseph's lineage, it is impossible that both Matthew and Luke are of Joseph's because they use different names and in Luke there are MANY more generations.

[Laurel]

Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 12 2010,20:07)

The following arguments taken from the book “he Grounds of Christianity Examined by Comparing The New Testament with the Old” “At a certain time, (says he,) a certain learned man of the wise men of the Christians said unto me:— ‘Wherefore are you Jews unwilling to believe Jesus of Nazareth to be the Messiah, when yet your veritable prophets testified of him, whose words you profess to have faith in.’ “ I gave him this answer. ‘How, I require, could we believe him to be the Messiah, when you can produce no genuine proof from the prophets in his favour, since all those things adduced by the evangelists from them, to prove Jesus the Messiah, are nothing to the purpose ? And we have many and evident reasons to prove that he was not the Messiah. And of these, I will bring forward a few, arising, 1, From his genealogy. 2. From his works. 3. From the time of his appearing. 4. From the prophecies of the things to take place in the time of the Messiah not having seen fulfilled in his age. And in these things are contained the genuine marks characteristic of our Messiah.’ “1. As to what concerns his genealogy; it does not prove this necessary thing, that Jesus was the son of David, because he was not begotten by Joseph, as the Gospel of Matthew testifies; for in the first chapter of it, it is written, that Jesus was born of Mary when she was yet a virgin, and had not been known by Joseph; which things being so, the genealogy of Joseph has nothing to do with Jesus. The descent and origin of Mary, is still less known, but it seems from Luke’s calling Elizabeth, who was of Levi, her cousin, that Mary was of the tribe of Levi, and not of Judah, and, consequently, not of David; and, if she were, still Jesus is not the more the son of David; descents being reckoned from the males only. Neither is the genealogy of Joseph rightly deduced from David, but labours under great difficulties. Matthew, and Luke also, not only disagree, but irreconcilably and flatly contradict each other, in their genealogies of Joseph. Now, it cannot be that the testimony of two witnesses, who directly contradict each other in the matter to be proved by them, can be received as true. But the prophets have directed us to expect no Messiah but one born of the seed of David. “ 2. As to the works of Jesus, we object to what he said concerning himself:— ‘Do not consider me as come to establish peace on earth, for I have come to send a sword, and to separate the son from the father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter-inlaw from her mother-in-law,’ which words are written in Mat. ch. x. But we find the prophecies concerning the Messiah to attribute to him very different works from these; nay, the very opposite. For, whereas Jesus testifies concerning himself, that he did not come to establish peace in the earth, but ‘division,’ ‘fire’ and ‘sword,’ Zechariah says, concerning the expected Messiah, ch. ix.:—‘He shall speak peace to the nations.’ Jesus says he came to send ‘fire and sword’ upon the earth, but Micah says, ch. ii., that in the times of the true Messiah they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks, nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.’ Jesus says that he came ‘to put division between the father and the son,’ &c. But in the time of the true Messiah, Elias, the prophet, shall come, of whom Malachi prophecied ‘that he shall convert the heart of the fathers unto the children, and the heart of the children to the fathers.’ Jesus says ‘that he came to serve others, not to be served by them’ – Mat. xx. 29. But of the true Messiah it is said, Psalm lxxii.:— ‘All kings shall bow themselves before him, all nations shall serve him.’ The same also is said by Zechariah, ch. ix. :— ‘His dominion shall be, from one sea to the other, and from the river unto the ends of the earth;’ and so Dan., ch. vii.:— ‘All dominions shall serve and obey him.’ “3. As to the time, we object to the Christians, that Jesus did not come at the time designated by the prophets; for the prophets testify, that the coming of the Messiah should be ‘in the end of days’ or, in the latter days, (which, surely, have not yet arrived) as it is in Isaiah ch. ii. :— ‘It shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and all nations shall flow unto it;’ and it immediately follows, concerning the king Messiah, ‘that he shall judge among the nations, and rebuke many peoples, and they shall beat their words into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks.’ See also Hosea, ch. iii, and also Dan., ch. ii., where it is written :— ‘God hath made known unto king Nebuchadnezzar what shall come to pass in the latter days,’ (or, in the end of days.) And this pertains to what follows, viz., to this:— ‘In the days of those kings, (i. e., of the kingdoms that arose out of the ruins of the Roman Empire) the God of heaven will raise up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed.’ Thus you see, that the prophets predicted, that the kingdom of the Messiah should be after the destruction of the Roman Empire, not while it was in its vigour; when Jesus came; in ‘the latter days,’ and not before.* “ 4. Besides all these difficulties, neither were the promises made to us by the prophets, concerning the things to come to pass at the coming of the Messiah, fulfilled in the time of Jesus. For examples, take the following:— ‘1. In the time of the king Messiah, there was to be one kingdom only, and one only king upon earth, viz., the king Messiah—see Daniel, ch. ii.; but behold, we see with our eyes, many independent kingdoms, distinct, and distinguished by different laws and customs, religious and political, which things being so, it follows, that the Messiah is not yet come. “ 2. In the time of the king Messiah, there was to be only one religion and one law throughout the world; for, it is written in Isaiah, ch. lii. and lxvi., that all nations shall come at stated times to worship the Eternal at Jerusalem. See also Zechariah, ch. xiv. and ch. viii., and indeed throughout the writings of the prophets. “3. In the time of the king Messiah, idols were to be cut off, and utterly to perish from the earth; as it is said in Zechariah, ch. xiii., and so in Isaiah, ch. ii., it is written, ‘And the glory of idols shall utterly pass away;’ and so in Zephaniah, ch. ii., ‘The Lord shall be terrible among them, when he shall make lean (i. e., bring to nothing) all the gods of the earth; and all the countries of the nations shall bow themselves to Him, each out of his place.’ “4. In the times of the Messiah, there shall obtain no more sins and crimes in the earth, especially among the children of Israel, as is affirmed in Deut. xxx., Zephaniah, ch. iii and in Jeremiah, ch. iii. And l., and so in Ezekiel, ch. xxxvi. and xxxvii. “5. In the times of the Messiah, there shall be peace between man and beast, and between the tiger and the tame beast; and the little child shall stroke, with impunity, the variegated skin of the serpent, and,— as one of our own poets has beautifully said,— ‘and with his forked tongue shall innocently play.’ See in Isaiah, ch. xi. and lxv., the original from whence he derived his beautiful poem. “6. In the time of the king Messiah, there are to be no calamities, no afflictions, no lamentations throughout the world. But the inhabitants thereof are to le ad joyful lives in gratitude to the good God, and in the enjoyment of his bounties. See Isaiah lxv. * The reader is requested to consider the reasoning in the last paragraph. The prophecy in the second chapter of Daniel, is commonly supposed to relate to the four Great Empires, the Babylonian, Persian, Grecian and Roman. This last, it is (according to this interpretation,) foretold, should be divided into many kingdoms, and that ‘in the latter days of these kingdoms,’ (which are now subsisting) God would set up a kingdom which would never be destroyed,—that of the Messiah. Of course, according to this interpretation, the kingdom of the Messiah was not to be not only sustain after the destruction of the Roman Empire, but not till the latter days of the kingdoms which grew up out of its ruins; whereas, Jesus was born in the time of Augustus, i. e., precisely when the Roman Empire itself was in the highest of its splendour and vigour. This is a remarkable, and very striking, repugnance, to the claims of the New Testament, and, if substantiated, must overset them entirely.—E. “Lastly. In the time of the king Messiah, the glory of God was again to return to Israel, and the spirit of the most High God was to be liberally poured out upon them, and they were to be endowed with the spirit of prophecy, and with wisdom, and knowledge, and understanding, and virtue; and God will no more hide his face from them; but will bless them, and give them a ready heart and a willing mind to obey his laws, and enjoy the felicities consequent thereupon. And the Shechinah shall inhabit the temple for ever, and the glory of God shall never depart from Israel; but they shall walk amid the splendours of the glory of the Eternal, and all the earth shall resound with his praise, as is written in Ezekiel, ch. xxxvii., and xxxix., and xliii.; and in Joel, ch. ii., and in Zech., ch. ii., and Isaiah, ch. xi., and throughout the latter part of his prophecies, and in Jer. xxxi.”

Yahushua's mother was a Jew from David. Her lineage is found in Matt.1. Joseph's lineage “her husband” is in Luke.
In Matthew this Joseph is the “father” of Mariam, not the “husband.” If this isn't true, then there are not 14 generations in this segment, but 13, and this whole section can be dismissed. It was a bad translation by those ignorant scribes who copied from another translation and another translation from the original Hebrew language. Yes it was originally written in Hebrew according to Josephus and Shem Tov's “Eben Bochan.”

All the rest of these so called proofs listed are valid, BUT they are all in relation to the time when the Messiah returns as Judge, and finally King. Only when the Messiah returns to fulfill the Fall Feasts will these things be accomplished.

How can anyone, even a Jew dismiss the fact that Yahushua Messiah DID fulfill the Spring Feasts. The Christians know nothing of this because they reject the Torah. But i do agree on pne point, the Greek Jesus IS NOT the Hebrew Yahushua. The doctrines that come with the name jesus are a cover-up to the original, like painting another face over the Mona Lisa. You can say, “This is Monica Liza” but the Mona Lisa is still under that layer of new paint just as perfect as when she was originally painted.

When Yahushua Messiah was born He lived to complete the prophecies found in The Spring Feasts of YHWH, which He did accomplish, to the letter, the year, the day, the hour, the minute, and the second; in every detail. The Fall Feasts will not be accomplished until His return to gather Yisra'el from the four corners of the earth unto the Kingdom of The Promise.

There is much to be accomplished in the meanwhile. The world is not ready for His return today. Many prophecies must be completed such as the destruction of Damascus, and Zachariah's nuclear war etc..

I for one can attest to the division between mother and daughter which comes because of the Messiah Yahushua. My daughter is married to a sun-worshipping christian. They celebrate pagan holy days and think that the commands were done away with.

My sons and i keep the Sabbath and YAH's Holy Days, and we also know Yahuhsua is the Messiah. My sons and i are separated from my daughter because of our differrences. I do not mean that we do not love one another. We are all still very close, but our different beliefs can cause grief at times. I am HORRIFIED that my daughter took my grandaughter to see satan claws, and my daughter said she cried and screamed. Children just know!

Also at times my daughter has called in tears because of the confusion that is in her heart. She wants to worship our ABBA the way we do, but she is married to a man who she must serve in another way.

Then there is my own mother. There have been times whe she has been outright mean and almost evil towards me. She does keep the Sabbath but it was very hard for her to come to terms with how the Messiah fulfilled Passover according to Scripture, and NOT according to the pagan Ashterot/Easter. There were periods of weeks that she was so angry that she would not speak to me. Looking back now she a much humbler and kind person and appreciates life more. She does understand the Passover and has since rejected the pagan holy days of x-mas and easter. Now when we disagree, things do not get as heated up, we love one another no matter what.

One by one Ephrayim is being plucked out from among the gentiles and returning to YHWH ELohim, their first love, and every time this happens there are divisions between families and friends.

CHristians think the world hates them because of their beliefs, but the truth is chrisitanity rules the world. It is thos who came out of Babel whom the world really does reject, people like myself. I do not fit in anywhere but with YHWH ELohim and Yahushua Messiah. The Jews reject me and the christians reject me, my friends reject me and my family rejects me. I have been ridiculed by my own sister publically just for standing up for the commands and proclaiming to her that adultery is wrong, and i will have no part in adultry. She hates me because she lives with a man and is not married, and she felt personally attacked when i told her i would not commit adultry, then i suppose she thought i was self rightous. OY VEY!

[Laurel]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2010,18:10)

Adam, My point is that you are biased against Christianity and so accept what those who accuse it state without actually testing their words.   I am speaking in general as you do not consistently do that.   There are just simply too many false accusations to address them all.  The bottom line is that either you believe God or you do not. As for me being biased for Christianity I cannot say as there are many doctrines that claim to be Christian and only one can be and is from God.  I would rather declare I am biased toward belief in God and therefore believe that he has spoken to us through the prophets, apostles, Jesus, and other means throughout the ages.   Since I believe it is so it follows that his words do not contradict one another and so I seek for interpretations that do not contradict and are consistent with his righteous nature. If you ask me what draws me to believe in God then I will declare it to be my desire to stop sinning at this moment as I regret the wrong I do to others, to myself, and to God. My challenge is for you to find it in yourself to likewise be driven to desire to stop sinning instantly and to persist in that desire because God can and will fulfill it at the proper time. As far as I know Jesus was not just speaking of just pre exile times but rather a broad overview of history.   My reasons for favoring the interpretation of his words are they do not cause a conflict in scripture and use scripture mixed with Jewish history to connect Zachariah the prophet to the one Jesus speaks of.   These Historians and critics you boast of have been shown to be in error and therefore not creditable enough to disprove scripture.  You need to discover creditable witnesses who know what they speak of and can interpret scripture honestly. An interesting tidbit about historians is they argue about what happened in living history.  Why do you think they would be any more accurate about ancient history when they have less evidence to support their conclusions?   Critics by definition have an eye to finding fault and are seldom unbiased.

Kerwin,
It is good that you do not want to sin, therefore one needs the Torah to understand exactly what sin is. One can not know they need salvation until they know they are sinning. When we see it with our own eyes and hear it with our own ears, who can tells us otherwise, our hearts are convicted of truth.

Torah is right and good and teaches us what is right and acceptable behavior toward YHWH Elohim. When YHWH wrote the 10 Words on 2 tablets of stone it was so that we would know that those words were forever and ever even unto His kingdom. No man can add nor diminish from YHWH's own written words!

There is a huge difference bewteen obedience and legalisim.

[Laurel]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2010,18:14)

Laurel, This threat is about Jesus being the Messiah prophecized of in the Old Testiment and our discussion is the Law of Mosses v the Spirit of God.   I answer you in a new thread I am labeling Legalism vs The Spirit Part 1 and subtitled About the Sabbath.  Please joing me there.  I hope other interested parties do to.

Good. The Messiah Yahushua taught us to keep the Torah commands. This is the true Messiah.

There is another one as i can see on this thread who teaches another Messiah and another Torah, another covenant, and another Good News.

The spirit of the anti-Messiah.

[Laurel]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 11 2010,08:19)

To all!  The old covenant is Exd 34:28   And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.   About the Sabbath Exd 31:16   Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.   Exd 31:17   It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.   PAUL tells us that Rom 14:5   One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.   Rom 14:6   He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.   Now if some like Laurel wants to keep the Sabbath that is fine, however She should never judge those who do not keep it, and keep another day….or every day alike. The New covenant in Luk 22:20   Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.   Jesus also magnified the KLaw on the Sermon on the Mount and made it Spiritual. Then He gave us the great commandmdnt in Mat 22:36   Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?   Mat 22:37   Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.   Mat 22:38   This is the first and great commandment.   Mat 22:39   And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.   Mat 22:40   On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.   We are under grace Eph 2:8   For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:   Eph 2:9   Not of works, lest any man should boast.   Eph 2:10   For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.   also Rom 4:8   Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.   Of course that does not give us any reason to sin, so grace may be abound….God forbid Paul says…. Peace and love Irene

To all:
Baker does not understand what truth is. According to The Word…. Here are “THREE TRUE WITNESSES” for you all.

Exo. 12:49 “There is one Torah for the native-born and for the stranger who sojourns among you.”

and

Numbers 15: 14 ‘And when a stranger sojourns with you, or whoever is among you throughout your generations, and would make an offering made by fire, a sweet fragrance to יהוה, as you do, so he does. 15 ‘One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. 16 ‘One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.’ ”

and

Numbers 15: 27 ‘And if a being sins by mistake, then he shall bring a female goat a year old as a sin offering. 28 ‘And the priest shall make atonement for the being who strays by mistake, when he sins by mistake before יהוה, to make atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him. 29 ‘For him who does [whatever] by mistake there is one Torah, both for him who is native among the children of Yisra’ĕl and for the stranger who sojourns in their midst.
30 ‘But the being who does [whatever] defiantly, whether he is native or a stranger, he reviles יהוה, and that being shall be cut off from among his people. 31 ‘Because he has despised the word of יהוה, and has broken His command, that being shall certainly be cut off, his crookedness is upon him.’ ”

[Laurel]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 08 2009,22:41)

Quote To all, I vaguely remember a scripture that seems to prophesy that the Anointed One will have no children but I cannot find it.  If anyone does know of it please cite the location. Thank you. I don't recollect that, but it be find to find it out, my next task.

Here is the requirement for the King of Judah and Yisra'el. It does not say anything abbout children here.

14 “When you come to the land which יהוה your Elohim is giving you, and shall possess it and shall dwell in it, and you shall say, ‘Let me set a sovereign over me like all the gentiles that are around me,’ 15 you shall certainly set a sovereign over you whom יהוה your Elohim shall choose. Set a sovereign over you from among your brothers, you are not allowed to set a foreigner over you, who is not your brother.
16 “Only, he is not to increase horses for himself, nor cause the people to return to Mitsrayim to increase horses, for יהוה has said to you, ‘Do not return that way again.’ 17 “And he is not to increase wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor is he to greatly increase silver and gold for himself.
18 “And it shall be, when he sits on the throne of his reign, that he shall write for himself a copy of this Torah in a book, from the one before the priests, the Lĕwites. 19 “And it shall be with him, and he shall read it all the days of his life, so that he learns to fear יהוה his Elohim and guard all the Words of this Torah and these laws, to do them, 20 so that his heart is not lifted up above his brothers, and so as not to turn aside from the command, right or left, so that he prolongs his days in his reign, he and his children, in the midst of Yisra’ĕl.

[Laurel]

A person who lives by the Set-apart Spirit knows the rest on the Sabbath and delight in it!

[Author]

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