Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 15 2010,13:57)Quote (thethinker @ April 15 2010,11:37)The Messenger who appeared to Moses in the burning bush is Jehovah God. He claimed to be the “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” Moses asked Him His name and He said, “I am that I am” (Exodus 3).Hi Thinker,Do you think it was really the angel doing the talking?  The…[Read more]

Mike said:Quote There is NO SCRIPTURE ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE that says Jesus received the “position” of the Son of God by a decree.May I ask you what Bible you are reading? “I WILL DECLARE THE DECREE: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.”Ps. 2and,3 “Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 16 2010,11:55)Hi Thinker,Martian is right.  Why wouldn't you just post on the thread that was already there.  I will answer intelligently to any point you made that was addressed to me.  But first you:1.  Does or does not your source say, “another view is that the plural wording is used to denote majesty. kings tra…[Read more]

Martian said:Quote My treatments at the hospital has been delayed for a time. I have to b healthy enough to undergo the treatments first. We hope they will start next week. If so I will be mostly absent from this board. Functionally that is a good thing since I get tired of playing games of philosophy and mental christianity.Martian,I think you…[Read more]

Mike said:Quote So use your definition then.  It proves that Jesus was “the Only Son after God's kind” before he came to earth because God SENT His “only Son after God's kind” to earth.I have said that He was the Son of God by decree a zillion times. But He was not “begotten” to the office of Son until He was resurrected from the dead. The son in…[Read more]

Martian said:Quote In the end it adds up to this. It makes no difference what you conjure from scripture. The end result of your doctrine is that it makes Christ a different creature from other humans. Functionally it defeats one of Christ's major mandates.Everything in christ life becomes a matter of speculation. Everything he did in question.…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ April 16 2010,01:57)Quote (thethinker @ April 15 2010,15:16)TO ALL:On page 2 of the original “Echad and Elohym” thread Martian  cited an excerpt from the TWOT which he thinks supports the plural of majesty theory of the word elohim.Martian posted:“The Theological Workbook of the Old Testament says,This word , which is generally…[Read more]

Mike said:Quote So it admits this is one valid explanation, and gives an example of it's use for that purpose.My source does not really say the plural of majesty is a “valid explanation” does it? It says that “kings traditionally use the plural form in speaking of themselves.” It does not say that Hebrew kings spoke in this manner. Please show…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2010,11:51)Hi TT,God manifests in different ways in men and angels.Nick,You make the Messenger out to be a poor communicator. Gabriel gets it right and says to Mary that “the power of the MOST HIGH will overshadow thee.” But the Messenger that came to Sarah botches it up by saying, “I will multiply your seed.”Why…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ April 15 2010,11:33)Thinker -Every time in the verses I quoted the person speaking said it was God speaking. Was it literally God or did the words come out of the mouth and throat of the prophet. So the messenger prophesied. What's the big deal?Gen three the term messenger means “one who walks for another.”  Who is this…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2010,11:41)Hi TT, Does it confuse you when God visits earth in His servants? None of them become Him by such use.Nick,Why did the angel Gabriel say, “The Most High will do this or that” but the Messenger who appeared to Moses said, “I am that I am?”thinker

Mikeboll said:Quote Jehovah can call Jesus Lord, because he is Lord.  And Jehovah should know, He is the One that set him up as Lord.  Clear enough yet?  Not God, not YHVH, but Lord.The Messenger who appeared to Moses in the burning bush is Jehovah God. He claimed to be the “God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.” Moses asked Him His name and He sa…[Read more]

Mike said:Quote I can and have proven he was begotten before he came to earth by, “God SENT his only begotten Son…”You have proven nothing because you argue from “monogenes” which does not mean “begotten.”  Mike:Quote Besides, the fact that everything came from the Father, through the Son makes a pretty strong statement that Jesus was the Son…[Read more]

Quote (martian @ April 14 2010,11:32)Nonthinker —Genesis 22:16
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:So if Moses wrote the book of Genesis then he is God based on the fact that he says saith the lord.Joshua 7:13
Up, sanctify the people, and say,…[Read more]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2010,09:46)Quote (david @ April 13 2010,16:57)The fact that many different ones are mighty ones, or are referred to by that word, does not in itself mean a single thing, at all.DavidBut it is significant! Because you have yet to address the point that no follower of YHWH or Jesus Old or NT called an Angel their…[Read more]

Mike,I am taking a break today and maybe tomorrow. I answered you on the Echad Elohim thread and WJ's post will keep you busy anyway. I do want to post a scripture that WJ gave David on the “Title confusion Trick” topic:YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have fai…[Read more]

Martian said:Quote am not chicken just tired of casting pearls before the swine. (that be you)You totally refuse to deal with the Hebrew culture that clearly shows that when a being acts on God's behalf they are often called God. this does not literally mean they are God. The messenger is an angel acting on the behalf of God and is therefore…[Read more]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2010,15:24)Hi Thinker,I wish you could go out of body as an unbiased person and read the way you butcher the Scriptures to prove a flawed man-made doctrine that isn't even mentioned in the Bible.You said:Quote “So you shall serve Jehovah your God, and HE will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness a…[Read more]