WorshippingJesus said to JA:Quote So your analogy is the builder “IS Jesus” but then you say the Father is the Owner.God built the house, but wait, Jesus is the builder, Hello! Does it ring a bell yet?Keith,I have pointed out to JA that Jesus is both the Builder and the Owner in the text but he has his head buried in the sand:3 For this One has…[Read more]

TO ALL:Mike says that Eusebius believed that Jesus had a beginning. Mike gives fragmented quotes from Eusebius which are taken out of their historical context. Mike's revision is easily refuted by two simple points:1. Eusebius presented his own creed to the Council of Nicea which was a trinitarian council. His creed was accepted as “ORTHODOX” by…[Read more]

TO ALL:Arthur Custance shows that Mike's view of “pasa ktisis” (all creation) is skewed and totally ABSURD:“It seems clear enough that the Great Commission of Mark's Gospel has reference to the human race alone. There is the familiar story of St. Francis of Assisi preaching to the birds, but I doubt if it is really the intent of the original that…[Read more]

TO ALL:The Greek “pasa ktisis” in the new testament ALWAYS refers to “all mankind.” Mike's own source said that the word “firstborn” has to do with one's relation in a family:Quote Before Colossians 1:15, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the sam…[Read more]

WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll:Quote Secondly your definition of the word “monogenes”, “caused to exist” is a little mesleading because “Strongs” doesn't give that definition as to imply that before he came in the flesh he was “caused to exist”.Keith,Exactly! Strong says that “monogenes” means “sole” or “only.” Sure he indicates that the…[Read more]

Mikeboll said:Quote But you won't even acknowledge the plain truth that in the 4th century “prototokos pasa ktisis” meant “firstborn of all creation” and “monogenes” meant “only begotten”.No Mike! It appears that to ONE church father monogenes meant “only begotten.” Note that I said, “it appears….” The Chruch fathers with one voice said that…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:32)Hi KJ, If you do not face judgement you have no future.After death the judgementJesus said that he who does not believe has been judged ALREADY. He said that those who believe shall not come into judgment. So non-believers have been judged and believers do not face judgment at all.Hebrews 9:27 is talking…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:22)Hi KJ, Tell us about the crushing then.When and how DID IT occur?I wasn't there. You'll have to ask those who were there. KJ

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:20)Hi KJ, The new earth is after the judgement. So what is your hope ?Correct. The new earth is AFTER the judgment. The judgment is past and the new earth is now.KJ

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:16)Hi KJ,So you are the arbiter of truth?You have a rationalisation for every scriptural truth? Preterism is of man but so is trinity Why should we be surprised if one folly begets another?There are just as many non-trinitarian preterists as trinitarian preterists. I have contended with preterists about Jesus…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2010,07:31)Hi KJ, You really need more than one verse to prove anything.If Satan in this verse is a being how many would be involved in his crushing? How would commonsense say that this could be done when the servants of Jesus were already scattered around the world?I don't follow your question about how many would be…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,10:00)Hi KJ, Really? You have evidence about this claim?1. Peter said that the 'elements' would be burned up. In the new testament the word 'elements' always refers to the things of the Mosaic economy.2. Peter said that the heaven and earth in Noah's day was destroyed. Yet we live on the same planet that Noah…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 05 2010,13:07)Hi KJ, Looks like the same old earth to me. It has yet to be destroyed by immense heat.Perhaps it has been warmer where you live than over here in NZ?The old earth (the state of Israel) was destroyed by immense heat when the Romans burned Jerusalem down.KJ

Quote (Ed J @ June 07 2010,06:40)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 05 2010,07:52)Ed JYou failed to address all my points. We're done. Whose next?Kangaroo JackHi Jack,Why can't you just explain to us all here how you come to the 70 AD. date?Posting the related Scriptures would also add to our understanding.You should give the related bible verses stating…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2010,07:27)Hi KJ, Therefore?We know he was not an anointed man of God so why would you expect him to be consistent in truth?Where did this new rule come from??Nick,Mike is the one filibustering by incessantly invoking Eusebius. I am happy to move on and get back to scripture.KJ

Mikeboll said:Quote The firstborn is part of the group.  Jesus is the firstborn of ALL CREATION.  Therefore, he is part of the group of ALL CREATION.  Why is that so hard for you to understand?Mike,Your statement above is nonsense and you know it. Your JW source does not apply the word “firstborn” as you when they say that the firstborn is “p…[Read more]

Mikeboll said:Quote THEREFOREEusebius DID mean only begotten when he used monogenes, right?TO ALL:Eusebius SIGNED the Nicean Creed. I repeat: Eusebius SIGNED the Nicean creed which explicitly said that “begotten” means that Jesus is of “ONE substance substance” with the Father:Quote The Council of Nicaea, A.D. 325. – The council was summoned for…[Read more]

JustAskin said:Quote One is the comparison of Jesus to Moses  and the other is qualifying that even though Jesus built the House -it is God who built EVERYTHING.JA,First, you are contradicting yourself. You say that it is Jesus who built the house but it is God who builds EVERYTHING. But if Jesus built the house and He is not God, then God does…[Read more]

JustAskin said:Quote One is the comparison of Jesus to Moses  and the other is qualifying that even though Jesus built the House -it is God who built EVERYTHING.JA,First, you are contradicting yourself. You say that it is Jesus who built the house but it is God who builds EVERYTHING. But if Jesus built the house and He is not God, then God does…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2010,06:48)Hi KJ, Yep. Every day his dominion decreased.Did you think it meant it was a ONE OFF event when ALL the saints would crush SATAN HIMSELF? Wake up.Your human preterism cannot find any support among even your friends hereNick,The satan of your thinking is a make believe cartoon character who gets “crushed”…[Read more]