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[John3:3]

Enoch chapter 18 vs. 15 & 16 seems to indicate that some of the rebellious angels will be punished for a set period of time (10,000 years)

Humans that go to hell perhaps have a similar set period of time. It must be at least 1000 years since death and hell are cast into lake of fire after millenium.

There is no time there in hades (or in paradise for that matter). Time is an earthly construct only. I know this for a fact, so even if it’s only 1000 years, you don’t want to be there even 1 second. It will seem like an eternity.

[John3:3]

I am going to buy some PUT options on DOW and NYSE for mid September 2015. Specifically 9-13-2015

Do the research if you’re so inclined. Jonathan Cahn is a good starting place.

[John3:3]

1 JOHN 5:7

[John3:3]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 28 2013,13:26)

Jesus is the son of that God and the messiah. He was made both Lord and Christ by God. Jesus God is the Father. The Father is also our God. We agree with Paul when he said, “For us there is one God the Father and one Lord the Lord Jesus Christ”. We agree with Jesus when he said, “This is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, AND Jesus Christ whom you have sent. For much of Christianity, there is one God the Father, Son, and Spirit. But Paul said, “for us there is one God the Father”. Much of Christianity/Christendom has embraced the Catholic creed of the Trinity. This creed is Pagan in origin.

This is apparently a very important subject for you T8. I have never had an issue with this doctrine myself (at least yet in my walk)

As I posted in another thread, I picture the Trinity as a Fleur-de-lis. One and three depending on how you look at it. It's a mystery. I think anyone saying flat out that Jesus is not God should tread lightly. That's just my personal .02 . IMO there are a lot more pressing issues facing believers at the moment.

BTW I'm not an apologist in any way from Catholicism. I came out of Babylon a long time ago and have tried to snatch as many family members as I can out of her.

[John3:3]

This site is turning into sectarianism. Esp re: the Trinity. I will only make one post regarding that topic because I think there a lot more important issues facing the true church right now.

Here is my post:

Fleur-de-lis …. contemplate it as a symbol of something else

[John3:3]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 08 2013,09:55)

I was thinking the same thing when I watched that part.  It seems that many of the early U.S. presidents knew  Good for them!  :)how ludicrous the claim that Jesus is God was.

Jesus is not God? Hmm. I must be in the wrong forum.

[John3:3]

It's easier to understand the modus operandi of the adversary by putting yourself in his shoes so to speak. For example, you try to stamp out followers of Jesus of Nazareth in the early years by persecution and they go underground, then multiply and spring up in greater numbers over a larger area.. HMM..

OK, I will take my religion (mystery babylon) and dip it in a veneer of christianity. Wala.. cathololicm (Semiramusism) for the west.. I will spin off a branch in the east that worships the moon as the west worships the sun. Wala.. Islam (Nimrodism) . Tammuz will encompass all the other mryiad branches of the tree of mystery babylon.

“The REAL truth will be very hard to find” The adversary muses to himself as he pats himself on the back.

Think out of the box a little and it all makes perfect sense.

That is why I wanted to enlighten the ones here that are diligently seeking the truth with the fuel project video series. The rabbit hole goes much deeper than that too, trust me.

[John3:3]

I've been studying biblical prophesy for a long time and I wanted to throw in my two cents.

1) Roman Catholic Church will yield the False Prophet. “The Beast out of the Sea” (Holy See). Even Catholics and St Malachi says there will be 112 Popes and the next one is the last pope, the “Black Pope” or “Peter the Roman”

2) Islam will yield the “12th Imam” or Hidden Imam. The Muslim Qu'ran and Hadiths explaining the prophecies of the 12th Imam state the exact opposite of what the Bible says regarding who the good guy and bad gusy are in the end times.

3) Islam was created/ birthed from the Catholic Church. The 12th Imam will be the “Beast from The Earth” He is prophisized my Muslims to appear from a Well (in the Earth) in Medina. The movement known as the “Twelvers” and most Shia Muslims follow these beliefs. The 12th Imam will establish a Muslim Caliphate and unite Sunni's and Shia's.

4) After the Roman Empire split, the RCC became the Western leg of Daniel's statue and Islam (Ottoman Empire) became the Eastern leg. Even today there are a lot of Catholic Churhes with Mosques right next door in many areas of the world. Muslims don't hate Catholics, they hate Born Again Christians. There is a satanic inspired hate that they have for Christians in many countries. There are many secrets hidden away in the Vatican. I won't say more right now about this.

5) Catholics and Muslims will join forces under the banner of Antichrist and the False Prophet/ with a false peace treaty while rounding up true Christians and anyone else who won't worship the “beast” and his system. Muslims and Catholics each claim about 1.5 billion adherents, which is roughly 1/2 the world's population.

6) Keep an eye on Medina (Saudi Arabia) and the Vatican.

[John3:3]

My rope vision had 2 ropes that any one could grab onto when getting pulled up. One was labeled Jesus, the other was whatever the person wanted it to be, good works, sacraments,holy days, another gospel, another prophet or religiosity. Many, many people grabbed onto both ropes while being pulled up, but alas, when they almost reached safety both ropes were yanked violently and since they had one hand on each rope, they lost their grip on both ropes and fell into the abyss.

There were a few wise ones, however, that grabbed on the the rope labeled Jesus with both hands as tightly as they could. When the reached the top where the others fell, their rope was yanked violently too, but they held on because they had both hands in the rope labeled Jesus.

[John3:3]

Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 05 2008,22:47)

Quote (John3:3 @ Sep. 05 2008,05:27) Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2008,00:04) Quote (John3:3 @ Aug. 23 2008,03:11) T8, I was shown a waking vision of Hell in 1978 when I became saved. My experience sounds very close to yours. Total Blackness, Indescribable physical and mental torment and having your concious mind stripped of anything that was ever good, lovely or pure in this world during your lifetime. Only the memory of evil and sin and the realization that there is no more time, just an eternal NOW. Only way I can describe the pain is like every atom of your being is on fire. The pain is so terrible you cannot put it in human terms. Human terms are finite, and the suffering is infinite, because the God that you sinned against is infinite. The “worm that dieth not” rips at your mind with all the chances to accept Christ in this life that you rejected. Every second of every day you lived was a chance that you had to accept Christ and give him your heart and life. 4 words echo through your mind for eternity “THERE IS NO HOPE” This terrible fate will never let up, never subside, never cease. How great and awesome is the foregiveness for our eternal sins that Jesus paid on the cross by his eternal sacrifice!!!  We will never fully know in this lifetime I can assure you. Thanks for sharing that. In my vision, I knew what it was like to experience no love, no light, no hope, and it was truly terrible beyond description. A sort of negative dimension if you can consider our existence a positive one because of God's love and mercy for us. But I think this torment does end because Death and Hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire, the second death. This hell is a temporary abode of the wicked, till the Lake of Fire judgement. Then will the saying come to pass that the wicked will perish. “That the wicked shall be destroyed.” Some people think that there will be an eventual end to the punishment in Hell (generic term I am using for Sheol,Hades,Gehenna), when these are cast into the lake of fire.This is the doctrine of annhilation. When Death and Hell are cast into the lake of fire along with Satan, The Antichrist and the False Prophet, as it mentions in Revelation, my belief is that the temporary holding place for the unrightous dead (Hades,Gehenna,Sheol) will no longer be needed. This does not, however, mean that the Lake of Fire is any less of a punishment or that there will be an end to the torment of the wicked. Many people have a problem reconciling God's love with the idea that God/Jesus can cast those that reject Jesus into Hell to suffer an unspeakable fate forever. God is a God of love, no doubt, and he is also a God of Mercy and Justice. Those that have heard the Gospel and still don't accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior by faith alone as the only way to heaven will have rejected God's mercy and foregiveness and only his wrath (Justice) awaits them after they die. I would like to believe that there will be an eventual end to the suffering that those in Hell/ Lake of Fire will experience, and I wrestled with this for a long tiime after I received the vision of Hell. The Holy Spirit eventually gave me the wisdom to understand, although it's still diffcult to comprehend, the fact that when we willfully sin against God, even one sin, there can never be a way to pay it off by any amount of suffering in this life or the next. Our mortal minds cannot fully understand how aggregious to God even one sin is. Look at what the consquences of 1 sin committed in the Garden of Eden has done to mankind for the rest of history. that will give you perhaps a small idea of what I am talking about. The question that many should be asking God rather than “How could you send a person to Hell to suffer for eternity” should be “Why should ANYONE deserve to go to heaven after sinning against a God that is infinite” A sin may take only a momemt to commit, but it is a sin against an infinite God and therefore the sin is infinite. That is why man can not “work or suffer off his sins” . Man is a finite creation and sin is an infinite debt. That is why Jesus Christ,as God incarnate, had to die in our place and why God laid the sin debt for the whole world on Jesus while he was on the cross. The infinite nature of Jesus paid the infinite debt that we cannot pay. That is why, when one rejects Jesus, he must pay infinitely for his sins. To believe otherwise, gives one hope, even if that hope is for annihlation eventually. In Hell, There is no hope, as I mentioned previously. Greetings John….You present a frightning scenerio of which there is no hope….I fail to see a loving mercifull God in your depiction of death and hell…of which Iam not sure is opened for business yet….( Hell that is )…”For the dead no nothing”,I  would think that  scripture means just.. that ! The scripture is saying they know No torment they are just asleep…awaiting a resurection to judgement…At which time all will have an opportunity to know God through Jesus' rule over his kingdom/government of which he will preside as King of Kings and Lord of Lords..There will those who reject Gods government/kingdom,they will be cast into the lake of fire and consumed never to exist again…

Thanks Theodorej,

You know, these types of visions doesn't go over very well with the average person. I have actually only told a few people about it over the years because I don't really think it will make a difference to most people. (As in the case of the Rich man in Luke asking if he can warn his brothers)

The Holy Spirit needs to draw people to God and all we can do as Christians is be available to speak to people that are searching for God to point our the true way of salvation and try to live out the Christian ideal everyday so as not to ruin our testimony.

I think there are a small percentage of people that will accept Christ as savior for fear of going to Hell. If they truly are converted, the Holy Spirit will lead them into all truth and show them the unbounding love that God and Jesus have for all mankind.

There is a lot I can't explain about what the Lord revealed to me but all I can do is share what I know with whomever is willing to listen. People need to know what it is that they are being saved from. If they don't believe there is a Hell, what's the motivation?

That is actually how I received this vision. I was filled with the spirit (Had no clue what that was at the time either) when I got saved and while meditating and thanking Jesus for what he has done for me about an hour after I accepted Christ, I heard a distinctive voice in my head saying “Ask me anything you want”

The only thing I could think of asking was “What was I saved from”? (My concept of Hell awas a guy in a red suit running around w/ a pitchfork being really mean to the murderers etc. there)

Then I was prompted by the Holy Spirit to close my eyes and in an instant
I was there!

Everyone wants to hear about how wonderful heaven will be but nobody really likes to talk about the only other alternative, the one that Jesus said will be the fate of the majority of people. I do not wish Hell as a fate for even the most vile person that ever lived on th earth.

I know purgatory is a false teaching, but I kinda wish it was true. The end is final when their books are closed, when people arrive in Hell they fully know why they are there. Paul says in Romans “They are without excuse” and that is the truth.

I would much rather talk about God's love, grace and Mercy he freely gives us everyday.

Whenever the Lord does give me a chance to witness to people about becoming Born Again and accepting Jesus as the only way to heaven, I do not give them a Hellfire and Brimstone speech, but I do bring up the fact that Hell is a real place and Jesus mentioned Hell in the bible more than he did Heaven.

I really feel like the time is growing short and we need to get the word out about to all we can. All of us need to pray for each other to boldly speak the word of truth.

There is so much false teaching out there that is is really scary how many people are being led away from the truth.

Sorry for the long soapbox. I'll get off now

[John3:3]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 27 2008,00:04)

Quote (John3:3 @ Aug. 23 2008,03:11) T8, I was shown a waking vision of Hell in 1978 when I became saved. My experience sounds very close to yours. Total Blackness, Indescribable physical and mental torment and having your concious mind stripped of anything that was ever good, lovely or pure in this world during your lifetime. Only the memory of evil and sin and the realization that there is no more time, just an eternal NOW. Only way I can describe the pain is like every atom of your being is on fire. The pain is so terrible you cannot put it in human terms. Human terms are finite, and the suffering is infinite, because the God that you sinned against is infinite. The “worm that dieth not” rips at your mind with all the chances to accept Christ in this life that you rejected. Every second of every day you lived was a chance that you had to accept Christ and give him your heart and life. 4 words echo through your mind for eternity “THERE IS NO HOPE” This terrible fate will never let up, never subside, never cease. How great and awesome is the foregiveness for our eternal sins that Jesus paid on the cross by his eternal sacrifice!!!  We will never fully know in this lifetime I can assure you. Thanks for sharing that. In my vision, I knew what it was like to experience no love, no light, no hope, and it was truly terrible beyond description. A sort of negative dimension if you can consider our existence a positive one because of God's love and mercy for us. But I think this torment does end because Death and Hell were thrown into the Lake of Fire, the second death. This hell is a temporary abode of the wicked, till the Lake of Fire judgement. Then will the saying come to pass that the wicked will perish. “That the wicked shall be destroyed.”

Some people think that there will be an eventual end to the punishment in Hell (generic term I am using for Sheol,Hades,Gehenna), when these are cast into the lake of fire.This is the doctrine of annhilation.

When Death and Hell are cast into the lake of fire along with Satan, The Antichrist and the False Prophet, as it mentions in Revelation, my belief is that the temporary holding place for the unrightous dead (Hades,Gehenna,Sheol) will no longer be needed. This does not, however, mean that the Lake of Fire is any less of a punishment or that there will be an end to the torment of the wicked.

Many people have a problem reconciling God's love with the idea that God/Jesus can cast those that reject Jesus into Hell to suffer an unspeakable fate forever.

God is a God of love, no doubt, and he is also a God of Mercy and Justice. Those that have heard the Gospel and still don't accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior by faith alone as the only way to heaven will have rejected God's mercy and foregiveness and only his wrath (Justice) awaits them after they die.

I would like to believe that there will be an eventual end to the suffering that those in Hell/ Lake of Fire will experience, and I wrestled with this for a long tiime after I received the vision of Hell.

The Holy Spirit eventually gave me the wisdom to understand, although it's still diffcult to comprehend, the fact that when we willfully sin against God, even one sin, there can never be a way to pay it off by any amount of suffering in this life or the next. Our mortal minds cannot fully understand how aggregious to God even one sin is.

Look at what the consquences of 1 sin committed in the Garden of Eden has done to mankind for the rest of history. that will give you perhaps a small idea of what I am talking about.

The question that many should be asking God rather than “How could you send a person to Hell to suffer for eternity” should be “Why should ANYONE deserve to go to heaven after sinning against a God that is infinite”

A sin may take only a momemt to commit, but it is a sin against an infinite God and therefore the sin is infinite. That is why man can not “work or suffer off his sins” . Man is a finite creation and sin is an infinite debt.

That is why Jesus Christ,as God incarnate, had to die in our place and why God laid the sin debt for the whole world on Jesus while he was on the cross. The infinite nature of Jesus paid the infinite debt that we cannot pay.

That is why, when one rejects Jesus, he must pay infinitely for his sins. To believe otherwise, gives one hope, even if that hope is for annihlation eventually. In Hell, There is no hope, as I mentioned previously.

[John3:3]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 23 2008,03:34)

Welcome John 3:3! Your first post is an attention graber!  Look forward to hearing more. Glad that you are here, Mandy

Thanks for the welcome Mandy. 2008 marks the 30th year since I became saved and had this vision and it has not faded in my mind all these years. The past 30 years, I have been able to get a lot of questions answered regading Hell by passages in the Bible and by the wisdom that the Holy Spirit has given me. when I accepted Christ, I only knew 1 verse in the Bible, guess which one?

I am going to put something down in writing soon about this topic that explains the 5 W's about Hell (Who,Why, Where,What,When)

I hope it will bring some people from the darkness in to the light. Pray for me that God's wisdom directs this effort.

Thanks again,

John3:3 (Chris)

[John3:3]

T8, I was shown a waking vision of Hell in 1978 when I became saved. My experience sounds very close to yours. Total Blackness, Indescribable physical and mental torment and having your concious mind stripped of anything that was ever good, lovely or pure in this world during your lifetime. Only the memory of evil and sin and the realization that there is no more time, just an eternal NOW. Only way I can describe the pain is like every atom of your being is on fire. The pain is so terrible you cannot put it in human terms. Human terms are finite, and the suffering is infinite, because the God that you sinned against is infinite.

The “worm that dieth not” rips at your mind with all the chances to accept Christ in this life that you rejected. Every second of every day you lived was a chance that you had to accept Christ and give him your heart and life.

4 words echo through your mind for eternity “THERE IS NO HOPE”

This terrible fate will never let up, never subside, never cease.

How great and awesome is the foregiveness for our eternal sins that Jesus paid on the cross by his eternal sacrifice!!! We will never fully know in this lifetime I can assure you.

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