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[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2007,09:28)

Hello Nick H,

You said:

“Peter called Christ the Holy One[1P1] and referred to his glory seen on the mountain[2P1].”

Question: Where specifically in 2 Peter 1 did Peter refer to Christ's glory seen on the mountain?

I don't see anything in that chapter to imply what you have stated. (??)

[Dancingforyounomore]

Sorry Martian, I should have elaborated a little more. As an example:

“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so ALSO the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.” Acts 5:32

Question: How can mere “breath” be a “witness” to anything?

“And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another *HELPER*. That *HE* may be with you forever, that is, the Spirit of truth *whom* the world cannot receive because it does not *behold Him*, or know *Him*, but you know *Him*, because *He* abides with you *AND WILL BE* in you.” Jn 14:16-17

“But the Holy Spirit, *whom* the Father will send in my name, *He* WILL TEACH you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.” Verse 26

Question: How can “breath” TEACH? And be “another helper”? And how can “breath” be called a “He, Whom, and a *Him*?

Please review Exodus 23:20-22 and compare it with Isaiah 63:9-14

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (martian @ Nov. 27 2009,03:23)

The word most often translated in Hebrew as “spirit” is “ruahh”. The term “ruahh” literally means breath or wind. The Hebrew culture saw the breath as the life of a person. Relating it to their natural realm, without breath there was no life. From the very beginning it is obvious that God’s breath was the animating force that gave Adam life. Gen 2:7 This is continued in the rest of humanity as is made clear in Job — Job 27 3For as long as life is in me,         And the breath of God is in my nostrils,    4My lips certainly will not speak unjustly,         Nor will my tongue mutter deceit. Job 33   4″The Spirit of God has made me,         And the breath of the Almighty gives me life. The same word for breath or wind is translated in other curious ways. — Deut 33 13Of Joseph he said, ”Blessed of the LORD be his land, With the choice things of heaven, with the dew, And from the deep lying beneath,   14And with the choice yield of the sun, And with the choice produce of the months. (ruahh) Job 31  32″The alien has not lodged outside,         For I have opened my doors to the traveler. (ruahh) Exo 11 5and all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of the Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the firstborn of the slave girl who is behind the millstones;(ruahh) all the firstborn of the cattle as well. What does wind/breath, months, traveler, and millstone have in common? To understand that one must understand that the Hebrews did not view their world from an abstract intellectualized construct. A simple nomadic people they saw things in a very organic manner. They saw their world from a functional viewpoint. They related everything including the workings of God to the real and natural world and their culture. They viewed their world and God’s dealings with them through their five senses. All of these things follow a prescribed path. The months from one to another. The traveler to his destination and the millstone on it’s continual circular path. In the same way the natural trade winds common in the Far East followed a prescribed path. These winds were a guide to these nomadic people. Though the wind itself cannot be seen, the effects of the wind can, in the moving of the leaves and the pressure of the moving air against their bodies. God has a prescribed path for us to follow. It is straight and does not vary. The Hebrew word for straight is tsadirq and is often translated righteous. Psalms 1 6For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,         But the way of the wicked will perish. Psalms 27 11Teach me Your way, O LORD,         And lead me in a level path When God gives us a new breath, His breath, He will cause us to follow His path. Eze 36 26″Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit (breath) within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27″I will put My Spirit (breath) within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. It is also interesting to note that the word “holy” literally means set aside for a special purpose. When we see the terms “Holy Spirit” it literally means — the breath of God that is set aside as the source of life and to guide and direct you along the path of righteousness. This understanding of the Holy Spirit easily translates into the New Testament. In fact the Greek word “pneuma” means exactly the same as “ruahh” in the Hebrew = Wind or breath. God promises His special wind/breath will direct the Apostles along their prescribed path. Acts 1:8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” God also directed Jesus along his prescribed path. Ats 10:38 ”You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit (his special wind breath) and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. Paul relied on the breath/wind of God in him to do what was prescribed on his path. Romans 15:19 in the power of signs and wonders, in the power of the Spirit(breath of God); so that from Jerusalem and round about as far as Illyricum I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. We are commanded to have that same breath in us to guide us on our path. Ephesians 3:16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit (wind/breath) in the inner man, Jesus had this breath upon Him Matthew 3:16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit (wind breath) of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, Jesus was full of the breath of God and led by it. Luke 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, (special breath) returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit (wind/breath) in the wilderness We too are to be filled with the breath of God. If fact we are to be filled to the same degree as Jesus. Eph 3 16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be FILLED UP TO ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD. What is the end of the prescribed path for us? That we become mature men, even as Christ our example. Ephesians 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.

Sorry, too many scriptures show that the Holy Spirit is NOT breath.

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 12 2008,13:21)

Hi say, Jesus disagrees with your use of the word 'God'. We are not family with the god of this world. Jn8 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

If Yeshua is *GOD*  because he “belongs to the God family”, then that would make those “in Christ” *also* God.  (with this kind of reasoning)

What I've noticed in scripture is that  “the MOST HIGH God” is the one who can and should be worshiped.  The Old testament is clear that if (or when) a person worships someone else, the Most High God YHWH considers it “leaving him” and committing Idolatry.

According to Psalms 82, yes, we are considered by GOD, to be in the god family, but this doesn't mean that other gods can be worshiped except *ONLY* THE MOST HIGH GOD, YHWH.

It is very clear from scripture that Yeshua (Jesus) is placed by GOD, his heavenly Father, in the position of FIRST BORN (among men on earth and also being the FIRST BORN of the DEAD.  (The first fruits of the New Creation.) Please see 1 Cor. 15:20-23… Rev. 1:5

“He will cry to me, “Thou art my Father, my GOD, and the rock of my salvation.   I SHALL ALSO MAKE HIM MY FIRSTBORN. The HIGHEST of the kings of the earth.  My lovingkindness I will keep for him forever, and my  covenant shall be confirmed to him. ”   Psalms 89:26-28

Besides being placed in the position of “first born”, God also chose (anointed ) him to be our Savior, A Mediator SERVING between men and GOD) and serving as our HIGH PRIEST.

What would the Jews have done to someone if that person stopped worshiping the MOST HIGH GOD of the Jews, and began worshiping the High Priest INSTEAD?   Wouldn't it have been considered IDOLATRY?

This, I believe, is the way trinitarians have done to God when they REPLACE Him with Yeshua. (Or claim that Yeshua is YHWH  (Or place His Son Yeshua IN EQUAL PLACE)

[Dancingforyounomore]

Hello brothers,  have you ever considered that the “power” of the Holy Spirit may have caused the conception of Mary by taking the sperm from Joseph? And because Mary could have not have conceived otherwise (because she had no intercourse before marriage to Joseph) God considered Himself his Father, because HE CAUSED his conception because it was HIS WILL.  So He sent His Holy Spirit and through “the power” of the HS  He caused  the miraculous conception?   If God hadn't willed this miracle then that particular egg and a particular sperm would never been united.  Then the Messiah would have been a different person.  Anyway, this could be possible.

The Messiah had to be “like Moses” in every way.  God told Moses that a prophet LIKE HIM  would come FROM among his (Moses) brothers.  Moses birth was miraculous wasn't it?  And Moses (through God's help) was saved from men trying to kill him as a babe or child.  Similar to Yeshua.  If God hadn't warned Joseph and Mary to flee to Egypt, then he, too could have been slaughtered along with the rest of the babies King Herod ordered to kill.

And Moses was fully a MAN and a PROPHET.   Christ was a MAN and a PROPHET.  Many believed him to be a prophet besides the promised Messiah.

Read again the words of Gabriel:

“The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the POWER of the Highest shall overshadow thee, THEREFORE also that holy thing which shall be born of the SHALL be called the Son of God.  And behold,,,,,, thy cousin Elisabeth HATH ALSO CONCEIVED a son in her old age”….”who was called BARREN”. (another miraculous birth) “FOR WITH GOD NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE.”

So God caused BOTH births.  The difference is that Yeshua's was more of a miracle because Mary had not laid with Joseph, and was still a virgin when she conceived.  

And Hebrews says:

“For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.  Wherefore, IN ALL THINGS it behooved him to be made like his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,”………….”  Hebrews 2:16-17

“But to which of the angels said he AT ANY TIME, 'Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?' ”  Heb. 1:13

Also:

“For unto the angels hath HE NOT put in subjection the world to come OF WHICH WE SPEAK.” Heb. 2:5

“So also Christ glorified NOT himself to be made an high priest, but He that said unto him “Thou art my Son, TODAY have I begotten thee.”   Hebrews 5:5

In Nazareth in the synagogue Yeshua read out of the book of Isaiah:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because HE hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the broken hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”  Luke 4:18-19

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (epistemaniac @ July 13 2005,06:12)

we should never think that Christianity begins and ends with us, however… the questions that we ask… the things that we find in the Bible… none of this is new…. while we can never lift tradition to be equal in authority to Scripture, we should also never forget that we are not the first ones to have the Spirit, we are not the first ones to examine the Scriptures…. at this juncture, I will allow another voice from the past more ably explain what I mean… that our Christian predessessors should not be ignored, nor, placed on too high an altar… “….. every inducement to search the Holy Scriptures should be placed in the way of our ministers, and to the younger brethren some guidance should be proffered as to the works most likely to aid them in their studies. Many are persuaded that they should expound the Word, but being unversed in the original tongues they can only fall back upon the help of their English Concordances, and are left floundering about, when a sound comment would direct their thoughts. True, the Holy Spirit will instruct the seeker, but he works by means. The Ethiopian eunuch might have received divine illumination, and doubtless did receive it, but still, when asked whether he understood the Scripture which he read, he replied, “How can I unless some man shall guide me?” The guiding man is needed still. Divines who have studied the Scriptures have left us great stores of holy thought which we do well to use. Their expositions can never be a substitute for our own meditations, but as water poured down a dry pump often sets it to work to bring up water of its own, so suggestive reading sets the mind in motion on its own account….. In order to be able to expound the Scriptures, and as an aid to your pulpit studies, you will need to be familiar with the commentators: a glorious army, let me tell you, whose acquaintance will be your delight and profit. Of course, you are not such wiseacres as to think or say that you can expound Scripture without assistance from the works of divines and learned men who have laboured before you in the field of exposition. If you are of that opinion, pray remain so, for you are not worth the trouble of conversion, and like a little coterie who think with you, would resent the attempt as an insult to your infallibility. It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others. My chat this afternoon is not for these great originals, but for you who are content to learn of holy men, taught of God, and mighty in the Scriptures. It has been the fashion of late years to speak against the use of commentaries. If there were any fear that the expositions of Matthew Henry, Gill, Scott, and others, would be exalted into Christian Targums, we would join the chorus of objectors, but the existence or approach of such a danger we do not suspect. The temptations of our times lie rather in empty pretensions to novelty of sentiment, than in a slavish following of accepted guides. A respectable acquaintance with the opinions of the giants of the past, might have saved many an erratic thinker from wild interpretations and outrageous inferences. Usually, we have found the despisers of commentaries to be men who have no sort of acquaintance with them; in their case, it is the opposite of familiarity which has bred contempt.” (Spurgeon, Commenting on Commentaries) found, among other places, at http://www.bible-researcher.com/commentaries1.html blessings

“Episte”   Are you forgetting what James said to believers?

“But if ANY ONE OF YOU lacks wisdom, let him ASK OF GOD, who gives to all men generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.”  James 1:5

The problem that I can see is that some Christians tend to LEAN too heavily upon other MEN to teach them.  But what if the Minister, teacher, or Pastor, is a BLIND GUIDE?  What if he is practicing sin in secret?  Do you honestly think that God's Holy Spirit will guide HIM to all truth?  God's Word says that God gives the righteous LIGHT but the wicked remains in darkness.

Yeshua said that the Scribes and Pharisees were “blind guides”  If a blind man follows a blind man, then they both fall into the pit.

There was a reason why Yeshua told his disciples to “keep asking”, “keep seeking”, and “keep knocking”, AND THEN it shall be opened to you.

Each person has the responsibility to “make sure of all things”.  And they need to put their TRUST IN GOD and a lot less in men.

Again, too many Christians are leaning more upon men for knowledge than leaning upon God and asking Him while they read and study His Word.  Then God's Holy Spirit can work and can teach one as they diligently read and study it.

Jeremiah 17:5-8 is very interesting concerning the big mistake of putting too much trust IN MEN.

And I tend to really believe it.  Or else how do you explain all of the DIVISIONS in the body of Christ?   Sects, denominations, many each pointing accusing fingers toward all those who do not gather with their particular Sect?

And many of the teachings in some churches are clearly the traditions and teachings OF MEN, and not of God.

Yes, true, it is interesting to listen to the words of  the earlier church fathers but just because they were Christian believers in the past doesn't necessarily mean that they ALL clearly understood God's Word.

Even the apostle Paul had a struggle in his day with the “superfine apostles” who were even slandering him and expelling innocent Christians from out of their church unlovingly.

Paul wrote:

“For we are not AS MANY, who corrupt the WORD of God, but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.”  2 Corinthians 2:17

Paul also said this:

“For the mystery of iniquity DOTH ALREADY WORK; only he who now hindereth will. continue to hinder until he be taken out of the way.” 2 Thessalonians 2:7

So the early Christians were fighting false doctrine, false teachers and false apostles even during their ministry in their day.

So Christians really need to be careful who they “listen” to.

We really DO have to consider what Paul said about the help of the Holy Spirit to teach us.    See 1 Cor. 2:10-14

“And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for our sakes, that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.  for who maketh thee to differ from another? And what hast thou that thou didst not receive?  Now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory as if thou hadst not received it?  1 Cor. 4:6-7

Even Peter began to falter when it came to standing up to the believing Jews who still clung to the Law.  Paul had to boldly set him straight because he was sinning toward the truth.  So we should trust more in the WORD, than in men.

[Dancingforyounomore]

“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Phil 2:9-11

Some translations say: “That IN the name of Jesus every knee should bow”……..”

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 30 2007,05:54)

John 1:14 ….and the word (expression of a thought, idea, plan) became flesh.”

An earlier translation (can't remember which one off hand) says at John chapter 1, that “the Word came THROUGH flesh”, but even if other translations say the “Word became flesh” it doesn't necessarily mean that the Word itself was Christ, but that Christ was the human manifestation OF GODS WORD.   The Scriptures speak of the Word, as “the word of life”.  This plan, or “word of life” came from God, and then God's word came THROUGH Christ.

The Word is God because when the angels were sent to carry out God' Word, Gods Word was the same equivalent as God presenting it HIM SELF.  Because the Word came FROM  God, and no one nor anything could thwart God's Word and prevent it from being carried out.

“By the *word* of Yahweh the heavens were made, and by the breath of His mouth all their host.”  Psalms33:6

Psalms 33:9:

“For He *spoke* and it was done, He COMMANDED and it *stood fast*.”

Psalms 33:4:

“For the Word of Yahweh is upright and all his work is done in faithfulness.”

Psalms 103:20-22:

“Bless Yahweh you His ANGELS, MIGHTY in strength, *who perform His Word*, obeying the voice of His Word.”

“Bless Yahweh, all you His hosts, you who SERVE Him, DOING HIS WILL.”

“bless Yahweh, all you works of His.  In all places of His dominion; Bless Yahweh O my soul.”

“Let US make man in our image”.   Most likely God was speaking to His angelic host.

Psalms 104:4-5:

“He makes the winds His messengers, Flaming fire His ministers.  He established the earth upon it's foundations, so that it will not toter forever and ever.”

See Isaiah 34:16:

“……”For His mouth has commanded, and His Spirit has gathered them.”

“And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then GOD SAID, “Let there be light”, and there was light.”

“Then God said; “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind; cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”.  And it was so.”

“Worthy art Thou our Lord and our God.  To receive glory and honor and power; for Thou didst create all things, and because of Thy will they existed, and were created.”   Revelation 4:11

“By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by THE WORD of God.  So that what is seen was not made out of things which is visible.”  Hebrews 11:3

“For THE WORD of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”   Hebrews 4:12

“The prophet who has a dream my relate his dream, but let him who has MY WORD, speak MY WORD in truth.  What does straw have in common with grain?  declares Yahweh.  Is not MY WORD LIKE FIRE?  Declares Yahweh.  And like a hammer which shatters a rock?  Jeremiah 23:28-29

“The grass withers, the flower fades, but the WORD of our God stands forever.”  Isaiah 40:8

“I have sworn BY MYSELF; THE WORD has gone forth from MY mouth in righteousness, and will not turn back, that to ME every knee will bow,and every tongue will wear allegiance.  They will say OF ME, “ONLY in Yahweh are righteousness and strength.  Men will come to HIM.  And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.”  Isaiah 45:22-24

“So MY WORD be which goes forth FROM MY MOUTH; it shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I DESIRE, and without succeeding in the matter for which I SENT IT.”   Isaiah 55:11

See what the scriptures say about the angel of God's presence:

See Exodus 23:20-23  then compare it with Isaiah 63:8-14
(you're in for a big surprise.)

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2010,05:40)

Hi ya'll, In my opinion, the term “God/god” does not automatically imply self-existent but the term “Most High God” would.  What do other's think? Interested in your thoughts, Kathi

Hello Kathi, I highly agree with you.

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2010,05:56)

hi DFNM do you know that in revelation the organisation around God is presented as a women.

Jehovah speaks of Israel as being His WIFE.

But as a nation, the majority of Israel had been unfaithful to God (not all, there has always been “a remnant” of the faithful) so the Judeans  in history ,who retained their unfaithfulness, and those in Jesus' day who refused to accept Christ and clung to the old Law, are considered the “unfaithful city”.  They are still 'in bondage” (slavery) and are not born of the “free woman”.  They are likened to being sons of HAGGAR (Mt Sinai) the servant girl who was a slave.

“But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.”  New Jerusalem = Mt ZION; (God 's mountain; “God's house”)

But all of God's faithful SERVANTS (in times past and now) are building blocks of the New Jerusalem, and the “city” of God is still growing through the good news gospel even to this day.

See Galations 4:21-31 …. Gal. 5:1-5 ….. Gal. 4:4-11 … Gal 5:14

[Dancingforyounomore]

I am wondering if anyone here on this forum has ever noticed that there is absolutely nothing (no Scriptures) in the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) which would imply that the “anointed”, or “Savior” (Christ) would be coming from heaven, or would be an angel which would be sent as our Savior? I am wondering why that is? Has anyone else wondered about this?

( I've went through all of the prophecies concerning Christ, but find that in the Hebrew Scriptures, he only comes thorough “the seed of David” (or Jacob.) And even after his death and resurrection he is still spoken of as A MAN. (Not a spirit or angel)

Has anyone else done a study on this?

[Dancingforyounomore]

I personally don't believe that Proverbs is speaking of Jesus as being “wisdom”. For instance Wisdom is spoken of as a “SHE”.

“Wisdom has built HER house, SHE has prepared HER food, SHE has mixed her wine; SHE has sent out her maidens, SHE calls”……” Proverbs 9:1-3

[Dancingforyounomore]

Kathy wrote

“If it were necessary for the sacrifice to be the greatest being aside from the Most High God, what type of being would be greater than the angels?  Wouldn't it be a literal son of the Most High Himself…one that had the nature of deity.  No other being has the nature of deity except for the Father and the Son.  And then, for the sacrifice to be one of blood shed, the Son would have to take on flesh and become like man and overcome temptations to prove His obedience and perfection in order to be proven pure and without blemish.”

My reply:

In the book of Job, God's angels are spoken of as “the sons of God”.    

Christ reflected his Father's nature. (Divine qualities)  This is why the scriptures says that he is the image of God.  Of course this doesn't mean that God is made of flesh or has the shape of men.   It is my understanding  that to be made in God's image, is to be patterned after God's LIKENESS. (Having His personal qualities)

This is why Genesis 1:26 says:

“Then God SAID, “Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR LIKENESS.”……”     ( I would like to discuss this Scripture further but in another post)

And verse 27 further says:

“And God created man in His OWN image, in the image of God He created him; male  and female He created them.”

Notice that men were made IN GOD'S IMAGE.   Isn't this what the scriptures say about Christ?  That he is the exact IMAGE of God?  

Some would hold to the notion that because Jesus is the exact image of God that he must also be deity?  So was Adam and Eve, because they were created in God's image, to be considered as God?  A “deity”?  No, for when the Jews accused him of claiming to be equal with God just because he claimed to be God's son, Jesus reminded them of Psalms 82:

If someone here is not yet familiar with that chapter in Psalms, please review it.  For it fully explains how God views His children.

And besides, the Jews even themselves claimed to be sons of God by stating that God was their Father!!  First they said that Abraham was their father, then they turned around and said that they had ONLY ONE FATHER; GOD.   (See John 8:39-41)

Adam and Eve, through their disobedience and rebellion, fell short of being in God's image because they became sinful.

So a sinless MAN made in God's image was needed to undo what Adam and Eve did to themselves and to their children.  So God planned a “seed of the woman” whom God would use to REDEEM mankind so that they, too can again, reflect the image of God.

 This is why the scriptures says that we are to “put on Christ”, and to pattern ourselves after him and after his image which is God's image.  And when we become believers and baptize, INTO Christ, we come OUT from under the curse and death of Adam and are transferred into the promise OF LIFE through the ransomed body of Christ.  We are given “the free gift” of life. (Our sins forgiven and being considered righteous through our faith in both God and  Christ and being obedient to Christ's  commandments)

But we have to carefully guard this free gift because we could lose it and fall short of it through falling away,(losing faith) and through disobedience.  Many Israelites (not all) lost God's favor because of their lack of faith and because of their disobedience.  Hebrews 3:12-19  

When Christ comes we have to be found “awake” and “ready”. (Faithful and DISCREET, not foolish)

So as you can (no doubt) tell by my post, I personally do not believe or accept the teaching that Jesus shares God's Diety.  (I don't find it to be scripturaly supported)

For only God is to be worshiped and Jesus himself confirmed this through his words to Satan (when he was being tempted in the wilderness) and through his teaching.

[Dancingforyounomore]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2010,12:20)

LU first we have already establish God as no beginning, as for the Son the only begotten it says it by it self ;if he is begotten he as a beginning , wen was he begotten the scriptures says in the beginning of his birth obviously there is no time table. it also mention in the beginning of creation,so we understand he is the first of all creation. it is also understood that all creation as been created for him and by him,this in my understanding means that God create his arm (mean is means of action)this is the WORD,wisdom,Christ, Christ is the first born of God the first in wisdom ,the first to be resurrected from the dead to everlasting and incorruptible live. the reason why he is at the right hand of God,? it because he wanted to be the first and he wanted to be greatest,how did Christ became and received all that let look at his words;in Mt 20:26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, Mt 20:27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— Mt 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” so Jesus became the servant and the slave and by doing this he became to sit at the right hand of God this means that he as recieve all powers up to the father but not equal or over the father

Hello there Lu,

Are you SURE that when the scriptures says: “all creation” that it is literally speaking of ALL of God's creation, including all of the animals, reptiles, marsupials, insects, angels and all other life forms  in the universe?

At Romans 8:19-21 was Paul speaking of *ALL* creation?  Or just speaking of mankind?

So when Christ is spoken of as “the first born of all creation” at Colossians 1:15 could this just mean just the “first born of all the “new creation” of mankind?   Or as verse 18 brings out, “the beginning”, (of the New Creation) “the first born from the dead”?

And verse 20 says:  “and through him to reconcile ALL THINGS to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross, through him I say whether things on earth or things in heaven?”

So when Paul said that the father used Christ to reconcile ALL THINGS to himself, through the cross, did he mean everything (all creation) that God created? or was he only meaning mankind and perhaps the repentant angels?

And when Jesus said:  “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation”  (See Mark 16:15)  

Was the gospel  to be preached to literally ALL of God's creation?  Or just to mankind?

And when does the Scriptures say that Christ was begotten?  And what occurred when he was “begotten”?

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