If science is by definition: the a. observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena;  and in my view God (which can not be proven for or against) is the architect and maker of such natural phenomena, then there is no…[Read more]

Quote (david @ Feb. 16 2008,11:06)Quote If God created the universe, life, mankind, etc., and the events were related to the author/authors of Genesis through some sort of divine inspiration, how was it done? E=mc2ISAIAH 40:26““Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them eve…[Read more]

Once again a thread on the theory of evolution has been hijacked by those who find it easier to rant against Stuart's beliefs or lack thereof then stick to the subject at hand.On one hand we have most of the creationists who say that evolution is wrong as it is incompatible with scripture, end of story.On the other end we have a group that views a…[Read more]

I think the advice given earlier to shop around is probably best.  Also you may find that a particular church rather then a particular denomination may be best, as Protestant churches are a decentralized and largely independent group.   It may be that you may disagree with one theological point (trinity) yet view all the other aspects of group wo…[Read more]

When I started this thread I wanted to raise the point that what is commonly taught as the dispensation of human souls seemed flawed to say the least.  I gave my reasons, and it seems that no one can defend this system other then to say it is according to their view of scripture.  If such scripture is correct then the vast majority of souls are d…[Read more]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 16 2008,03:48)Many listen with an ear not to understand, and examine plausibility, but to refute.As a stand alone platitude I agree, yet this statement can be used by any of us in regards to each other's opinions and all think it appropriate to everyone other then themselves.

Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 15 2008,23:22)Cato,I believe there is a difference between doubting and questioning. I do believe we should question our beliefs and why we believe them, but we have to have something to measure them against. If as you say scripture is not trust worthy then we are left to our own devices. However I believe there is…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,18:32)Hi Stu, So pig headed self reliance is the key. Is this not akin to selfishness?”I am angered by people whose pig-headed and selfish addiction to an ideology causes needless death.”Nick,Here you fall into the trap of the fanatic, pointing out faults in others without seeing same in themselves.  Your quote…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,06:30)Hi cato, Then who should examine these things for us and clarify what is truth?Surely not someone beset with so many doubts as yourself?Those doubts would introduce a negative bias.It is incumbent for each of us to look for truth, no one can do it for us, others can help but in the end we are responsible.I…[Read more]

Do I view JWs Christian, in a general sense, yes.  Are many of their beliefs peculiar, yes.  I view them somwhere on the cusp between mainstream religion and cult, as they seem to have practices that lie somewhere in between.  I admire the dedication of many of their members, but view their recruiting methods with suspicion.  They are one of the…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,06:24)Hi cato, So the plan that is written is flawed and cannot be the correct plan and there must be another one somewhere? Sounds a bit of an insecure foundation for any real faith?Yes it is flawed, and no one has stated elsewise other then to argue it is right because of what they believe is “Holy Scripture”.…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,05:24)Hi cato, So you human assessment of the divine plan is that it is inadequate?Nick,You have not accurately read my posts, I never said the divine plan was inadequate, I said that I do not accept what is commonly taught, is indeed the divine plan.  Ominscience could not create such a flawed process.  Can a…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 15 2008,05:28)Hi cato, It is characteristic of humanistic religion to rate the effects of the human filter as being greater than the abilities of the divine source.Greater no, but just because something can happen doesn't mean it did.  I suppose God could have sent his word directly or willed perfect understanding of his…[Read more]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 15 2008,05:11)So what then is the special content provided by the divine dictation?  Most of the mythology in Judeo-christian scripture is reworked material from past mythologies. StuartThat Stuart is the question and why scripture and myth need to be examined, not to be blindly followed or thrown out en masse.  If there is e…[Read more]

Nick,The whole point of my thread is that God did not write the group of works referred to as the Bible. Now I am open to idea that some of it may have been divinely inspired but humanly interpreted, reproduced, and edited and to the immediate purpose of the thread, these individuals were of mostly of bronze age technology with limited if any…[Read more]

Some have implied that I question God's plan or wisdom, this is not the case, what I question is our view of such, which makes little sense.  Can anyone argue that what most view as God's supposed plan for dispensation of souls is illogical, and inequitable.  Eternal reward or punishment based one life, where the circumstances of that life and t…[Read more]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 13 2008,22:34)Quote (Cato @ Feb. 12 2008,02:50)First, it to me, violates law, laws that God created and set in motion.  Nothing in the universe goes from infinite to finite or from finite to infinite.  How then can one finite existence then lead to an infinite, eternal, reward or punishment?If one has eternal life say starting a…[Read more]

t8,I am saying that if the means of salvation are based on the premises of most here that, salvation is dependent on being “born again” and this is a one shot eternal reward or punishment scenario, then it is indeed unfair.  This is based not on the relative material factors of birth but on their relative opportunities to know and be supported in…[Read more]

Yes, Catholics (or I should say the church hierarchy) in particular seem out of touch with reality when it comes to sexuality.  That is probably why most Catholics in the US and Canada like to ignore Papal dictates on such topics and why the evangelicals are the fastest growing religious group in South America.  The Catholic Church can no longer l…[Read more]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 12 2008,13:24)Hi cato, You ask”Why would God create us in the first place? ” I think God wanted to shame the rebellious angels who brought evil into heaven and earth.We are given the opportunity to be a part of this cleansing process, which is quite a battle but one in which the winning side is already known.Then even on…[Read more]