Mystery of the Jews

This topic has 87 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by Proclaimer.

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May 18, 2015 at 11:36 am#797738
bodhitharta
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The verse in Genesis is not a verse about Jews, Abraham was not a Jew nor was he a Christian, it was actually about many different groups of people
May 18, 2015 at 12:04 pm#797740
Proclaimer
Participant
The promise was through Isaac. But God can work through anyone and any nation. Be like Abraham and God will work through you. But if you curse the Jews, you will be cursed.
Romans 9
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
May 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm#797745
bodhitharta
Participant
Isaac was not a Jew either and both of Abrahams sons were blessed.
Cursing the Jews? God said he would curse them if they turned away:
The Curses of Disobedience
…18″Cursed shall be the offspring of your body and the produce of your ground, the increase of your herd and the young of your flock. 19″Cursed shall you be when you come in, and cursed shall you be when you go out. 20″The LORD will send upon you curses, confusion, and rebuke, in all you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken Me.…
t8 just a little more patience and study and you will see a complete picture
May 18, 2015 at 3:20 pm#797750
AndrewAD
Participant
I watched the video and found it interesting but is it really such a mystery that some have held to the religious beliefs that were handed down to them? Many did not or there would be many more Jews in the world today.Even Hitler purportedly came from a Jewish background-that is had Jewish ancestors. And Einstein had a Jewish background but was a deist and that for political reasons to not be called an atheist which he probably really was. And many “Jews” who live in Israel today are in fact atheists even if they celebrate some of the traditions even as some “Christians” do Christmas and Easter.And there are many religious Jews who don’t believe the modern state of Israel is of God at all.

May 18, 2015 at 5:00 pm#797765
Proclaimer
Participant
Hi Andrew.
The Jews have done just about everything wrong you can imagine in their history and this is why they have been judged so harshly. Yes many are Atheists today, but many are not. I have also noticed how their current PM quotes from the Torah and speaks as if he has personal faith in YHWH. I would need to check that out of course.
Regardless, Israel still has a covenant with God and their history has been remarkable. No other people/nation can lay claim to what the Jews have done and been through from Egyptian persecution, to Babylon capture, and Concentration Camps. But God has done many miracles for his nation and still does.
May 18, 2015 at 5:03 pm#797767
Proclaimer
Participant
Isaac was not a Jew either and both of Abrahams sons were blessed.
The promise was with Isaac. But yes, Ishmael too had promises from God to draw upon. But those who curse the Jews will be cursed. Where are all the persecutors of the Jews now? The Babylonians, Romans, Ottomans, Nazis, etc. They have fallen away to be no longer. But the Jews remain.
May 18, 2015 at 5:04 pm#797768
Proclaimer
Participant
Cursing the Jews? God said he would curse them if they turned away:
What’s your point. His people like anyone else will be cursed if they turn away from God.
Are you saying that persecuting Jews does not bring a curse?
May 18, 2015 at 5:12 pm#797770
Proclaimer
Participant
Against All Odds: The Miracle of Modern Day Israel
May 19, 2015 at 4:17 am#797798
bodhitharta
Participant
@t8
Isaac was not a Jew either and both of Abrahams sons were blessed.
The promise was with Isaac. But yes, Ishmael too had promises from God to draw upon. But those who curse the Jews will be cursed. Where are all the persecutors of the Jews now? The Babylonians, Romans, Ottomans, Nazis, etc. They have fallen away to be no longer. But the Jews remain.
The Romans converted to Christianity and they still remain and were still supporting the persecution of the Jews during Hitlers time and in America as the KKK also who claim to be Christians have persecuted Jews til this day but that wasn’t my point and I wasn’t talking about Ishmael specifically, my point was Abraham was not a Jew and Isaac was not a Jew, many of the tribes of Israel are scattered but still remain and they are not all caucasians there are over 500,000 black Jews but it is a mystery why they are never shown or spoken about
May 19, 2015 at 5:31 am#797799
bodhitharta
Participant
May 19, 2015 at 9:52 am#797837
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
You tell us you are a Jew by religion.
So you are not a follower of Christ Jesus but still under the Law?
May 21, 2015 at 12:52 pm#798103
Proclaimer
Participant
The Romans converted to Christianity and they still remain and were still supporting the persecution of the Jews during Hitlers time and in America as the KKK also who claim to be Christians have persecuted Jews til this day but that wasn’t my point and I wasn’t talking about Ishmael specifically, my point was Abraham was not a Jew and Isaac was not a Jew, many of the tribes of Israel are scattered but still remain and they are not all caucasians there are over 500,000 black Jews but it is a mystery why they are never shown or spoken about
What is your point though. And converting to Christianity and then persecuting Jews and others is an oxymoron. Do you honestly think those that persecute, kill, implored the rack and other medieval torture of so-called heretics have a place in Heaven?
Wake up. The IRA are Catholic and killed English who were Protestant.
Know the difference between a culture and what you actually believe and are.
I have personally met Catholics in Ireland that hate English people. This is a clear violation of one of two great commandments of Christ, to love or fellow man as we love ourselves.
No unrepentant murderer has a place in the Kingdom of God. Simple as that. You can call them whatever you want, but that will not change their judgement.
And how do we know that we are the children of God, well there are a number of signs. one is our love for the brethren according to John.
Nowhere are we told we are the children of God because of our persecution and murder of God’s people.
Wakeup man. This should be obvious to any clear thinking person.
And what of Black Jews. Did I say there were none or something like that? Why bring that into this conversation. It is nothing about race, and everything to do with the heart. God does not judge by outward appearance. Did you not know that?
May 29, 2015 at 5:52 am#798549
DavidL
Participant
Jews bemoan anti-semitism as if that were the root cause of all their problems – but maybe (as Scripture foretells) it is God Himself who heaps their calamities upon them, (because of their own unfaithfulness to Him)…
Deuteronomy:
15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you.
20 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.
25 The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth.
34 The sights you see will drive you mad.
37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the LORD will drive you.
32:21-23 They have made Me jealous with what is not God; They have provoked Me to anger with their idols. So I will make them jealous with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation, For a fire is kindled in Mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap misfortunes on them; I will use My arrows on them.
I see Jews as the natural branch that has been cast aside through unbelief – yet I believe many will have their eyes opened to their true Messiah through the turmoil of end time events…
Zechariah:
14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
May 29, 2015 at 6:05 am#798552
DavidL
Participant
I found this presentation challenging to my orthodox/Pentecostal view of Judaism – and have felt for some time that the Jews will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah..i guess this is ‘Replacement’ teaching – but what do you think..?

May 29, 2015 at 2:42 pm#798572
NickHassan
Participant
Hi,
As with Adam the walk of the Jews was never going to be successful.
Following the external laws does not change the relationship with God to what God wants.
Only the arrival of the Son of grace and the empowering and educational work of the Spirit inside men can do that.
May 30, 2015 at 10:49 am#798616
AndrewAD
Participant
Good word Nick!
And Dear David L, the word of what ye call replacement theology is only the truth of Christianity, and that is those Jews have no covenant with God outside of Christ whom they reject.I have yet to watch your video but perhaps I will tonite and let you know what I think.
There is no more promise in the carnal land and flesh.The only promise is now in the spiritual realm of the heavens for all gentiles and jews.
June 4, 2015 at 2:05 pm#798883
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW
Heb 8.13
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

But you try to serve both??

moved as you requested
June 5, 2015 at 12:55 pm#798938
Proclaimer
Participant
Jews bemoan anti-semitism as if that were the root cause of all their problems – but maybe (as Scripture foretells) it is God Himself who heaps their calamities upon them, (because of their own unfaithfulness to Him)…
To some degree that is true that it is their own doing. The more they walk away from God, the more they will be handed over to their enemies, but in God’s timing as we have already seen. However, I strongly suspect that if they all walked upright with God, the persecution would be even bigger, but their protection would be greater too. For those that walk with God will be persecuted because they are in the world. God protects his people, but he also tests us by being in the world and persecution makes us either closer to God or depart him. God prefers hot and cold. He doesn’t like luke warm. I am the same when it comes to coffee. Either hot or cold.
June 5, 2015 at 1:19 pm#798941
Miia
Participant
the word of what ye call replacement theology is only the truth of Christianity, and that is those Jews have no covenant with God outside of Christ whom they reject.I have yet to watch your video but perhaps I will tonite and let you know what I think.
There is no more promise in the carnal land and flesh.The only promise is now in the spiritual realm of the heavens for all gentiles and jews.
Hi AndrewAD, I agree with you there – it is clearly in scripture. But, the Jews who turn to Christ, (the natural remaining branches), have not been rejected, (I know that is what you are probably meaning).
June 8, 2015 at 2:46 pm#799182
NickHassan
Participant
Hi KW,
Given that the Pharisees were implicated in the murder of Jesus and the Pharisee Saul was continuing that work is it wise to join in their religion?
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